Yep, whey isolate protein is whey isolate protein, whether in an $$$ supplement like Progressive Nutrition has, or bulk bags marketed towards (largely) body builders.
Same with BCAAs. I don’t know which brands she uses but it’s literally bulk stuff off Amazin.
She doesn’t add the three aminos, largely because she feeds a decent amount of TC Sr Gold
I have a suspected PSSM 2 guy that also is very reactive to the cold, and I 10000% agree with JBs assessment. My guy is on a very low NSC balancer (Hallway fed according to the bag, so about 1.5 lbs per day for his weight), alfalfa cubes 3x daily, beet pulp 2x daily, and CoolStance Copra (coconut meal) 2x daily as he is a pretty hard keeper. But the big things that have helped him were adding different types of very high quality protein in addition to his 30% balancer. I added micellar casein (human grade) as well as whey protein (also human grade) and he is so much happier now! Even with the cold weather, his muscles are loose and he is willing to work which is a huge change from last year!
He also gets Progressive Topline Extreme, which is basically BCAA, 8000 iu of vitamin e, and I recently added jiaogulan which I think has helped as well. The other thing that has helped immensely is riding in a therapeutic quarter sheet. I use the Weatherbeeta one, since it just attaches to the billets and doesn’t end up with a seam under my saddle.
The paper that suggested adding fat was by Dr. Valberg. Feeding Performance Horses with Myopathies.
How did you determine how much to feed him? Did you add one at a time or all at once?
Dr. Valberg is amazing. She’s been so very generous with me in her research and guidance, and it’s made a difference, but we’re thinking my horse may have MFM which is different yet.
I use a managed diet but complications arise with my horse’s new diagnosis of EMS, and a suspected sensitivity to alfalfa that may be the reason for two terrible gas colics in the past 30 days. So, no alfalfa, and hay with an NSC of 6.6%.
I use the MFM pellets from KER and believe they are making a huge difference in overall comfort level.
For the Vitamin E I talked to my vet about the higher dosing and she said that she goes up to 10,000 iu for some horses, so I started a little lower and just played around until I found a sweet spot. The casein I based off the dose of Zylkene, since that is also a casein derivative, but it’s just a protein, so I started low and worked my way up to ensure he didn’t have any digestive upset. Same with the whey. They don’t actually get more than a human would as it is in addition to a lot of other proteins. As long as there was no reaction to the initial feeding (allergy/intolerance type thing), it was a lot of trial and error. There is a casein/whey thread on here that some of the others who played with it have weighed in on (pun intended! lol)
I did start them one at a time, just so I would know it any of them had a reaction, I’d know which one. I do think they work better all together, but that isn’t based on anything scientific.
Thank you.
Just be sure to do some regular blood work if you’re feeding levels that high. And it may be more beneficial (to the horse and/or your wallet) to use Emcelle which is a water-soluble form, and therefore requires a lower dose for the same effect as the regular versions
Thank you.
How much of each (whey protein and BCAA) is she feeding to her horse?
I’ll try to find out sometime today.
After this thread I added a tri amino supplement (10g lysine, 6g methionine, 4g threonine) and BCAAs (5g leucine, 2.5g isoleucine, 2.5g valine) and within 2 weeks I see a definite difference.
Which product did you go with for each? What difference did you notice with your horse?
I am in Canada, I went with a horse supplement for the tri aminos (Mad Barn Three Amigos) and then a human unflavoured BCAA. This specific horse has been a stiff mover for over a year, no diagnosed reason why. He’s an imported winning 3’6 hunter/1.30m jumper and his performance just declined. He now seems to be more willing to move forward and stretch down. Sounds suspicious after just a couple weeks of these new supplements so I am going to try to remove them now and see what happens.
Out of curiosity how old was he when he was imported? Did is decline start shortly after that, or was it a while?
Do you know his pre-import diet, and what is/was his new diet?
I ask just to see if he was in that age range where symptoms usually start to appear, or if a diet change triggered symptoms.
He IS in fact in the age range that the symptoms usually start to arise! He was imported as a 9 year old in Feb 2020 and was performing well in the US, but I dont think it was very long before his performance started to decline. The owner has done a bone scan, tildren, SI injection, he’s had all sorts of different shoeing with pads, estrone shots, you name it. Nothing notable has shown up during vettings and nothing has really made him improve. He was on stall rest for the rest of 2020 and then early 2021 he started getting limited turnout. I would describe his movement under saddle at that time as like short pony steps and it took a ton of coaxing to get him to even do that. Not super lame, but uncomfortable. He went to the show grounds for summer 2021 but did nothing, and then came back to my farm in October 2021. Since then he has gotten all day group turnout, no grain (beet pulp with VM supplement), and I have now added magnesium and the amino acids.
Unfortunately I have no idea what his diet was in Europe, I wish I did.
Here’s a video if you’re curious. First clip is from April 2021, second clip is from a couple weeks ago (before the additional supplements), third clip is from two days ago. Rider in second clip described him as not wanting to go forward, rider in third clip had no issues.
When you say she added whey and bcaa’s, are you referring to bcaa’s within the whey or did she supplement them additionally? If so, using what? My understanding is that whey contains a good amount of bcaa’s? Still trying to figure my mare out!
Thank you to everyone that responded above! My vet is very much of the opinion that the hair tests are not worthwhile and two best options are either 1) change management and see what happens or 2) muscle biopsy. So we’re going with (1) now.
I added ALCAR to her BP mash a week ago and the improvement in how she comes out at the start of ride and how willing she is to push from behind throughout the ride is quite remarkable. Even her leasee was commenting at what a dramatic change she’s gone through this week (she did not know about the ALCAR addition).
This makes me think that there is definitely a muscle enzyme issue at play, albeit relatively mild.
So next question: With the switch to all night turnout (14+ hrs outside in large paddock) and 5+ days consistent exercise she’s gone from way too fat to borderline thin side. I wouldn’t want her losing any more weight.
BO wants to put her on ~1-2lb a day of Purina Impact Pro, at least for rest of winter, to maintain her weight as it’s the easiest solution from a barn work perspective. NSC is ~17%…feels high to me for a horse with suspected PSSM but given the amount she’d be getting maybe it’s fine?
Others who know way more then me…care to chime in thoughts? I don’t know her total NSC because our hay changes over so frequently testing is pretty useless. But her diet right now is:
Bear in mind that the more work a PSSM horse is doing the more NSC/sugars they can tolerate in their diet.
Have you tried adding oil to the BP mash? When I had to feed BP (because there was no commercial feed available that a PSSM horse could have) I found that putting the oil in just before the hot water spread it out over everything so the oil-soaked salad effect didn’t happen. The horses (I had two on that diet) were much happier about eating it too.
Also you might consider heavier blankets if you’re in a cold climate so she’s not burning calories keeping warm.
Another feed option is alfalfa hay or cubes at night when she’s out alone.
Funny you should mention this.
I have a 32yo who is on his 2nd Winter of needing 2, 5lb meals of TC Sr. This is his first Winter where he’s starting to have some trouble with hay. So, I need more calories.
He also has a volume limit, so adding rice bran is dicey
Enter, oil.
My MO for his meals (since he also does NOT like truly soaked feed) is to put a bit of hot water in the bottom of his low wide feed pan, add his 5lb of TC Sr, fix all 3 meals, then stir his up. The well-soaked bottom layer mixes in and gets the powdered supps to stick.
I tried adding some oil on top of that, just a few tbsp. NO. Many pounds of TC SR wasted.
So I decided to add that oil to the water, before adding his feed.
We are now up to almost 1/2c of oil a feeding, and he doesn’t seem to notice.
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