Swapping behind, cross cantering - exercises to help

[SugarCubes]

I’m riding a horse for a friend who is too busy to ride at the moment. He’s been out of work for the past two months, but she said he’s had this issue even when he was in regular work.

Whenever you ask him to canter he is fine for a stride or two, then swaps out behind for maybe a stride, then breaks to the trot.

If I push him to keep cantering, he cross canters or keeps swapping, then gets mad and bucks and crowhops. On the longe line he can hold the correct lead for a few strides on a straight line but as soon as he’s turning he swaps behind, cross canters a stride then breaks to a trot, then he’ll pick up the canter again on the wrong lead, swap again, cross canter again, and it just repeats

I’ve only ridden him three times and he’s a little better each ride. I’ve been doing a lot of raised trot poles and walk-trot transitions with him to try to build up his hind end.

What else would you guys recommend? Part of me thinks it could be his SI or hocks, but I think it could also just be a lack of fitness thing. When I asked if she’d had him checked out she laughed and said she’d done the works - vet, chiro, massage. Thoughts?

[longtimelurker]

[QUOTE=SugarCubes;8855818]
I’m riding a horse for a friend who is too busy to ride at the moment. He’s been out of work for the past two months, but she said he’s had this issue even when he was in regular work.

Whenever you ask him to canter he is fine for a stride or two, then swaps out behind for maybe a stride, then breaks to the trot.

If I push him to keep cantering, he cross canters or keeps swapping, then gets mad and bucks and crowhops. On the longe line he can hold the correct lead for a few strides on a straight line but as soon as he’s turning he swaps behind, cross canters a stride then breaks to a trot, then he’ll pick up the canter again on the wrong lead, swap again, cross canter again, and it just repeats

I’ve only ridden him three times and he’s a little better each ride. I’ve been doing a lot of raised trot poles and walk-trot transitions with him to try to build up his hind end.

What else would you guys recommend? Part of me thinks it could be his SI or hocks, but I think it could also just be a lack of fitness thing. When I asked if she’d had him checked out she laughed and said she’d done the works - vet, chiro, massage. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

This seems like a textbook hock issue to me, but if it’s getting better with more work, maybe you’ll get lucky! If his owner truly knows it’s not a physical issue, I’d start incorporating lateral work at walk and trot to get the haunches engaged - shoulder in, leg yielding, haunches in. Only a few steps at a time, until he gets his strength up! Also, transitions within gaits - lengthening and shortening at the walk and trot (from the hind end). You could even back off the canter work entirely for a little bit while you try to build his strength up to avoid repeating bad habits.

[2tempe]

It could be a lack of backend strength; what you are doing, plus some hill work can strengthen him. That said:
I had an older TB that started having canter issues much like you describe ex the bucking part. Turned out he had cervical arthritis, which created some neurological problems. So I’d consider having a vet give him a look over because its just not normal. And specifically ask re cervical arthritis.

[enjoytheride]

It could be a. hocks b. lack of fitness c. head in air and dropped back

Try lunging in side reins.

What breed is he?

[enjoytheride]

It could be a. hocks b. lack of fitness c. head in air and dropped back

Try lunging in side reins.

What breed is he?

Does he swap out on the lunge line? Swap out when cantering in the field?

[SugarCubes]

To answer some questions so far…after the first ride I decided to only ask him to canter on the longe line so we don’t get into a bucking habit and if it’s pain related I don’t want push the issue. I’d rather work a lot on the walk and trot until he’s more fit then see where we are with the canter.

I believe he’s around 10 and an arab/qh cross or something like that, I think she got him from a rescue. He was recently gelded and was used for breeding before she got him, he has a number of scars so that makes me wonder if he has some underlying injury. If he were mine, I’d obviously be doing the works as far as x-rays and ultrasounds, but I can’t make that call

Yes, he swaps out free longing, on the longe line, or under saddle. Unfortunately the arena where she boards is TINY which certainly doesn’t help! He’s pretty spooky so I don’t think riding him in a field would go over too well!

[jetsmom]

Mine did that when I pulled his shoes and he was a little foot sore. Put shoes on and he was back to normal.

[RockinHorse]

[QUOTE=SugarCubes;8855818]
I’m riding a horse for a friend who is too busy to ride at the moment. He’s been out of work for the past two months, but she said he’s had this issue even when he was in regular work.

Whenever you ask him to canter he is fine for a stride or two, then swaps out behind for maybe a stride, then breaks to the trot.

If I push him to keep cantering, he cross canters or keeps swapping, then gets mad and bucks and crowhops. On the longe line he can hold the correct lead for a few strides on a straight line but as soon as he’s turning he swaps behind, cross canters a stride then breaks to a trot, then he’ll pick up the canter again on the wrong lead, swap again, cross canter again, and it just repeats

I’ve only ridden him three times and he’s a little better each ride. I’ve been doing a lot of raised trot poles and walk-trot transitions with him to try to build up his hind end.

What else would you guys recommend? Part of me thinks it could be his SI or hocks, but I think it could also just be a lack of fitness thing. When I asked if she’d had him checked out she laughed and said she’d done the works - vet, chiro, massage. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Since the horse had the same issue when it was in regular work, I don’t think it is lack of fitness. I think there is an underlying issue and the horse is uncomfortable. SI or hocks would be my first guess with a cantering issue.

[hokiekat]

Similar thing happened to my Anglo-Arab when he was ~11 years old. Also a rescue, had extremely poor nutrition growing up. He was very uncomfortable in his lower back, swapping canter leads, couldn’t maintain canter. I tried to build muscle and condition - but just couldn’t get him round and on the bit to do so appropriately. Eventually I took him to a lameness expert when his back because sore enough that it was apparent there was a significant issue. Hock x-rays showed mild arthritis, so we injected and started him on Pentosan. A few months of conditioning and he was back in regular work. However, it took quite awhile for him to let go of the memory of pain and realize his hocks didn’t hurt anymore. 3 years later we’re back to schooling novice (per vet approval, of course).

[raisethebar]

Definitely could be combination of strength and body issue. My 5 year old did it as he started to come into work. Found out that he was sore throughout his SI/back really bad. Lead to some bucking but the first sign was cross cantering behind. The first thing the vet did was a lameness workup and said that normally when they do that its hocks/could be stifles. Since my guy is so young, he actually needed chiro work to put everything back in the right place and has been feeling better than ever! A lot of strengthening work has come into play as well.

Backing up gentle hills, walking up long slopy hills, and proper flat work. I suggest figure out why he is doing it first, and then take your time getting him back to a point where he is comfortable where he doesn’t need to swap out.

[findeight]

Could be conformational weakness too, some just can’t hold a lead behind. Since this is nothing new, always been a problem have to consider he just can’t.

However…just exactly what did the vet actually do when they saw the horse? With signs of poor treatment over a long period and generally unknown history? I’d be starting by spending some money on a good vet exam instead of possibly causing the horse further discomfort/pain. Has the horse ever had any X rays or ultrasounds?

Its tough when it’s not your horse and you know something is wrong but the owner isn’t on board. You never know what they actually authorized the vet to do/not do or what the vet actually said to them.

[ElementFarm]

to me, swapping off behind is often a sign of stifles…
a good vet check is probably the first step.

if all looks okay…
I would not do much cantering for now, and work on building strength and topline: lots of hill work, cavaletti, spirals/circles, and transitions within the trot. Then canter on a big circle, and just ask for a few strides at a time. Try to downward transition before the swap off. Gradually ask for more consecutive strides at a time. If it’s simply a question of strength (perhaps coupled with less than ideal conformation or historic training issues) this should help. Try to avoid letting swap happen (so no cantering on the lunge, but trot work in a pessoa might help) and just try to build to longer periods of correct work.

[SugarCubes]

Thanks so much for the great advice! I was able to talk to the owner yesterday and she agreed we should at least do a lameness exam with flexions as a starting point. In the meantime, he’s been great doing a lot of raised trot poles and walk-trot-halt transitions, so we will continue with that until we figure out what’s going on with the hind end!

[SugarCubes]

[QUOTE=ElementFarm;8856939]
to me, swapping off behind is often a sign of stifles…
a good vet check is probably the first step.

if all looks okay…
I would not do much cantering for now, and work on building strength and topline: lots of hill work, cavaletti, spirals/circles, and transitions within the trot. Then canter on a big circle, and just ask for a few strides at a time. Try to downward transition before the swap off. Gradually ask for more consecutive strides at a time. If it’s simply a question of strength (perhaps coupled with less than ideal conformation or historic training issues) this should help. Try to avoid letting swap happen (so no cantering on the lunge, but trot work in a pessoa might help) and just try to build to longer periods of correct work.[/QUOTE]

Ok, it sounds like I’m on the right track with what I’ve done so far…he will only hold the lead for 2-3 strides MAX before swapping, so I’ll ask him to trot after 2 strides before he swaps out. The other thing that concerns me is even if he’s on the correct lead, he swaps out right before the downward transition - to me that indicates pain somewhere right?! I’m very anxious to hear what the vet thinks!

[longtimelurker]

[QUOTE=SugarCubes;8858288]
Ok, it sounds like I’m on the right track with what I’ve done so far…he will only hold the lead for 2-3 strides MAX before swapping, so I’ll ask him to trot after 2 strides before he swaps out. The other thing that concerns me is even if he’s on the correct lead, he swaps out right before the downward transition - to me that indicates pain somewhere right?! I’m very anxious to hear what the vet thinks![/QUOTE]

To me – yes. Sounds like when you ask him to shift his weight back for the transition, he gets uncomfortable and tries to alleviate the discomfort by swapping.

[enjoytheride]

I knew it had to be an Arab. Arabs with their short backs and high heads are notorious for swapping out behind. Get him vet checked then work on getting him to lower his head and neck at the canter.