Sweat patterns after a ride, and do they mean all that much?

[Obsidian_Fire]

Yes, the larger muscles are going to sweat, we know this.

But how much do sweat patterns really tell us? I am not talking about saddle fit, I am only talking about which muscles were most engaged during a work session.

I ask because my mare is puzzling me a bit. After yesterday’s ride, in which we did a full hour of W/T/C - a lot of canter and trot - her hind was very wet, yet her neck had nearly nothing, and under the saddle was not wet, only damp-ish.
I’d been told that sweat patterns are indicative of which muscles are working hardest. If that’s the case, then she may as well have been walking on her hind legs the entire time…
This sweat pattern is normal for “her” but I’m not sure it’s “normal”, in general.

Thoughts anyone?

[Snowdenfarm]

I would love to see a study confirming that horses sweat over the muscles that are working the hardest. No matter how many calf raises I do, my calfs (calves?) do not sweat, lol. I sweat in the same places no matter what part of my body is working. I just sweat more if I am in poorer condition, work harder or it is warmer/more humid. I find it to be the same with my horses.

[JB]

I would look more to changes in sweat patterns over time.

How was the footing? What exactly made up the ride? Sunny, cloudy, windy, calm? High/low humidity? Morning ride vs afternoon? All those things can change where you see sweat.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@JB

I would look more to changes in sweat patterns over time.

How was the footing? What exactly made up the ride? Sunny, cloudy, windy, calm? High/low humidity? Morning ride vs afternoon? All those things can change where you see sweat.

No changes that I’ve noticed over time, with exception to hot summer days.

Yesterday – 40 degrees, no wind, she’s not clipped, footing the same as always, humidity has been fairly high, rode between 8-9 AM… there was nothing “different” about our ride except maybe the amount of transitions we worked on.

Mostly I’m just puzzled by how her back end could be so wet while her neck was just warm. Maybe she just doesn’t have to use her neck muscles to get up off the forehand as much as other horses do? She does travel uphill all by herself, all the time.
IDK.

I guess I just want to make sure there is not some “wrong” reason for her to be sweating in this manner.

[JB]

I think horses have their own sweat patterns. It is surprising that she’d be so wet behind, but not much up front, on a 40* ride, even with higher humidity. For sure, necks don’t get nearly the workout that rear ends do though.

[Palm_Beach]

@Obsidian Fire

Yes, the larger muscles are going to sweat, we know this.

But how much do sweat patterns really tell us? I am not talking about saddle fit, I am only talking about which muscles were most engaged during a work session.

I ask because my mare is puzzling me a bit. After yesterday’s ride, in which we did a full hour of W/T/C - a lot of canter and trot - her hind was very wet, yet her neck had nearly nothing, and under the saddle was not wet, only damp-ish.
I’d been told that sweat patterns are indicative of which muscles are working hardest. If that’s the case, then she may as well have been walking on her hind legs the entire time…
This sweat pattern is normal for “her” but I’m not sure it’s “normal”, in general.

Thoughts anyone?

What do you mean by “her hind was very wet?” What specific body parts were wet? Between her legs, along her flanks?

Friction causes sweat, so even a slight bit of movement under the saddle pad can cause sweat. Sweat glands are not evenly distributed along the body, so areas with more sweat glands will sweat more. Muscles don’t sweat, skin sweats.

Muscled areas don’t sweat independently of other body parts just because they are being worked. My forehead is the first body part to sweat on me when I am exerting myself or if it’s hot, and believe me, my head does not work that hard.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Palm Beach

What do you mean by “her hind was very wet?” What specific body parts were wet? Between her legs, along her flanks?

Friction causes sweat, so even a slight bit of movement under the saddle pad can cause sweat. Sweat glands are not evenly distributed along the body, so areas with more sweat glands will sweat more. Muscles don’t sweat, skin sweats.

Muscled areas don’t sweat independently of other body parts just because they are being worked. My forehead is the first body part to sweat on me when I am exerting myself or if it’s hot, and believe me, my head does not work that hard.

LOL…

I don’t think we can compare humans to horses, not really. MY hamstrings don’t sweat after I work them - but my horses’ do!

Anyway, to be specific: biceps femoris (from stifle back to hamstrings), (rear) hamstrings, flank (normal on any horse).
Hamstrings & flank, I expect on any horse. Biceps femoris? Not so much.
The amount of wet was out of proportion to the ride, IMO.

My worry is that she’s working her hind so hard not because it’s “working” but because she’s blocking and compensating for something else. This is a green OTTB so we are still working thru the physical issues.

[JB]

@Obsidian Fire

My worry is that she’s working her hind so hard not because it’s “working” but because she’s blocking and compensating for something else. This is a green OTTB so we are still working thru the physical issues.

That’s certainly a possibility. It may also just be her. But I agree that it’s not common, at least IME, for the biceps femoris to be that sort of wet, without an appropriate amount under the saddle (unless your saddle pad is just that good a wicking away moisture), and base of the neck.

So I would assume something is “wrong”. How do her muscles feel? It would be worth a good MT session to see what’s what.

[SuzieQNutter]

@Obsidian Fire

Yes, the larger muscles are going to sweat, we know this.

But how much do sweat patterns really tell us? I am not talking about saddle fit, I am only talking about which muscles were most engaged during a work session.

I ask because my mare is puzzling me a bit. After yesterday’s ride, in which we did a full hour of W/T/C - a lot of canter and trot - her hind was very wet, yet her neck had nearly nothing, and under the saddle was not wet, only damp-ish.
I’d been told that sweat patterns are indicative of which muscles are working hardest. If that’s the case, then she may as well have been walking on her hind legs the entire time…
This sweat pattern is normal for “her” but I’m not sure it’s “normal”, in general.

Thoughts anyone?

This is exactly what you want and what people strive for. Even better if there is white froth beween the back legs.

This is what happens when the horse is worked correctly and it is colder out so the horse is not sweating from heat or humidity. At the moment my boy is sweating on the neck and other places before I tack up.

You do not want sweat under the neck and preferably not on the neck.

The froth comes from when the back legs do not just go back and forth, but up, down and round and round. So they are really using themselves.

[JB]

@SuzieQNutter

You do not want sweat under the neck and preferably not on the neck.

Why? When working correctly, the neck is doing a good bit of work, especially relative to the amount of muscle there is. The muscles closer to the shoulders, and along the top, are working the most.

[Obsidian_Fire]

Yes, exactly, assuming the horse is working correctly over the topline I’d expect to see sweat on the top of the neck, shoulders/withers area. That has certainly been true with my gelding (waaaaay more training).

Guess I’ll just keep an eye on things.

[SuzieQNutter]

Easiest way to explain for me is for you to get down on your hands and knees. Now stretch your hands (forefeet) as far as away from your knees (hocks) as you can. No further than that. Right up to here as far as you can.

Now staying in that position. Lift both hands off the floor. This is how a horse goes naturally. It should be impossible to stay with your hands off the ground. Feel how much you would be working to try and do that for your rider.

Now (tap tap with my whip) staying in that position move your knees right up to your hands. NOT your hands back to your knees, as in dressage we do not pull back. NOW lift your hands off the ground. It should be dead easy. This is what happens with a horse when collected. See how easy that would now be to do for your rider.

So if a horse is being ridden correctly there should be no sweat on the neck. They have top muscle and no muscle on the bottom of the neck. The mane should be on one side of the neck. I am not talking about horses whose breeds have double manes.

Ridden incorrectly you will see sweat on the neck, again I am talking about a cold day and not like here at the moment, when my boys neck is sweating before I tack up, as it is hot and humid here. You will also see muscle on the bottom of the neck and mane on 2 sides of the neck.

As to the froth if that was the question. If you have wet hands on wet soap and move only a little bit back and forth you will not get much of a lather. This is a horse not using his back and legs just going back and forth.

Now same soap and wet hands and move a lot forward and back, up and down and round and round, now you have a lather. This is a horse using his back, his hindlegs are going back and forth and up and down and round and round with collecting, using his back and working.

My boy is a classic example of this. His thighs meet so you would think froth every time. Nope. Even when it is so hot. Nope.

This morning a trail ride and on the way home trot and canter on notch 2. Yes he has had years of the rule of only walking home and so now I can break that rule when I feel I can.

Into the arena and walk, trot and canter, collected and medium and over cavelletti and I had froth between his back legs. YAY.

OP should be saying YAY as well.

[JB]

@SuzieQNutter

So if a horse is being ridden correctly there should be no sweat on the neck.

Of course they can, and do, have sweat on the neck when ridden correctly

They have top muscle and no muscle on the bottom of the neck.

Of course they have muscle on the bottom of the neck. How else does the under neck get (incorrectly) muscled when ridden upside down? But they should be using those muscles minimally when ridden correctly.

The mane should be on one side of the neck. I am not talking about horses whose breeds have double manes.

Or horses with cowlicks, or any other valid reason their mane has sections on both sides.

Ridden incorrectly you will see sweat on the neck,

A correctly ridden horse absolutely uses his neck - correct riding is about lifting the neck from the withers, not pushing it from the base. That’s why the WELL ridden horse develops a nice triangle from the base to the poll, because the muscles at the shoulder end of the neck work and grow.

As to the froth if that was the question. If you have wet hands on wet soap and move only a little bit back and forth you will not get much of a lather. This is a horse not using his back and legs just going back and forth.

Now same soap and wet hands and move a lot forward and back, up and down and round and round, now you have a lather. This is a horse using his back, his hindlegs are going back and forth and up and down and round and round with collecting, using his back and working.

I guarantee none of my horses galloping around the field and generating white lather between their hind legs are collecting or lifting their backs in “correct” work. You can have ridden horse doing no correct work and moving his legs a LOT and have white lather between them.

[Guilherme]

Like so many things, “it depends.”

Sweat just says of muscles that they’re working; it doesn’t necessarily mean “working right” or “working wrong.”

On the back, where the “sweat pattern” is often really clear, it can suggest problems or can suggest no problems. Or maybe something in between.

I look at the patterns on my horse when I’m done and take note so that if I think I see an issue I can try and address it, first by confirming I have an issue! That means get another set of eyes or the video camera or something to give me a different perspective. Ground work is great, but some things that are problematic don’t show up until you get in the saddle. And vice versa. You have to look at the WHOLE HORSE not just some part (no matter how important that part might be).

G.

[Obsidian_Fire]

All of you have valid points. Thank you.

As I said above, the sweat pattern seemed out of line. As I am very much in tune with the ‘whole horse’, I will continue to monitor things.

[SuzieQNutter]

As I said on a cold day. By a cold day there is usually no sweat under the saddle either and he is hot horse. (We do not get snow.)

You should be able to look at the whole horse not under saddle to see if it is being muscled correctly. The horse should also be happy. If the horse is not happy that should tell you something.

When you also see sweat under the saddle, you don’t want any dry spots. If so there is too much pressure there for them to sweat and will cause saddle spots that are white.

If I canter my boy out on the trail or in the arena and he does not get forward there will be no foam. If he is forward by himself in canter and/or gallop. I will have foam.

We are getting there, I am now able to get him forward in most rides now. It is such a big difference and makes me smile.

Like you OP we are at the beginning and a few months or so in. I look forward to how far I hope we will go.

[JB]

I want to see a nice dry(ish) line all the way down the spine, under the saddle. That means there’s good spine clearance with good air flow.

Dry spots don’t always equate to too much pressure. A saddle that bridges may easily leave dry(er) spots where it doesn’t connect with the back.

Often, horses who are less in shape will foam sweat, and as they get into better and better shape, the sweat will be more liquidy.

What matters MORE is a pattern in a given horse. What kind of sweat, where, and how much. Not necessarily whether it’s foamy or clear.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@JB, given this horses’ history with the NPA - makes me suspect she’s guarding behind, hence “too much sweat” on the hind end given all other factors (fitness, weather, etc.)

Anyway, she had her first shoeing today with the flapper pads, which I will post about separately.

[JB]

Aha, that does make a difference! Yes, I would be suspect then.

[eqsiu]

@SuzieQNutter

So if a horse is being ridden correctly there should be no sweat on the neck. They have top muscle and no muscle on the bottom of the neck. The mane should be on one side of the neck. I am not talking about horses whose breeds have double manes.

The problem with your argument is that sweat glands are more concentrated in the skin of the neck, chest, and groin compared to other areas. The sweat doesn’t specifically cool the muscles generating the heat. Instead the sweat cools the blood as it circulates near the skin. Regardless of what muscles are working, physiology determines where the greatest (and thus most efficient) heat loss happens.

As for the mane, the hair lays however it wants. I have rarely met a horse whose mane naturally lays only on one side. I have never heard of a double mane. What is that?