Swift kick to my knee today

[musicmaker5166]

Being a person who has only owned horses since June of this year, I assume this is due to my ignorance. My gelding is a bit skittish and was a bag of bones, ripped ear, head shy, hard to catch sweet boy. He still has some angst but has been doing so well with things that I got “brave/negligent”. While he was eating oats it appeared to me that his sheath was swollen, so I did a small squat next to him and decided to touch it for the first time since I got him (Sept.). He was NOT happy with me, his head popped straight up and I got kicked; it could have been far worse. It hurt - I even felt it in my jaw like a jolt of electricity. It’s swelling and bruising - but will be fine as nothing is broken and I consider myself very fortunate that my leg was locked and turned so that he got the side of my knee.

What does a horseman do “training wise” when they get kicked? My husband thought that I should have kicked him back - but I for one NEVER WOULD and for two I let my guard down and he is likely hurting there too.

Is this abnormal to get kicked - or part of owning horses? I’ve known that he needs his sheath cleaned and tomorrow will have the vet come since it was swollen tonight. We love this guy and are in NO WAY thinking to get rid of him, just wondering if once a kicker, always a kicker?

Thanks!!

[sheltoneb]

It is not completely abnormal for someone to get kick, but it is NOT acceptable behavior from the horse and is VERY dangerous. Having said that, the horse I bought last spring has kicked out a few of time in response to something I did. He kicked out when being fly sprayed and when I touched his belly. Initially when fly spaying him, I would have put money one him either eventually kicking me or him going through the cross ties, Also, you could you not touch his belly much beyond the girth area. In both cases, I believe it was due to not being ‘broke’ to handle on the ground and lacking ground manners. He was also ear shy. I did correct the kicking out when it occurred.

I have spent a lot of time desensitizing him so to avoid future issues. I am also always aware that he kicked out it in the past and don’t set him or myself up for failure. He is now at the point that I can fly spray him loose in the stall . I also realized the other day that I was reaching between his back legs from behind to grab and cross the blanket leg straps. I would not have even attempted this in the spring.

Not knowing your background other than horse ownership is new to you, I HIGHLY suggest working with a trainer on the issue. At the very minimum, have someone show you the correct way to handle and desensitize the horse to minimize the risk of being kicked again. If not corrected early, most of the time the issue gets worse and the owner gets seriously hurt.

There is hope, however if you are uncomfortable correcting the issue or don’t know how and can’t get assistance, I would urge you take a hard look at the situation to determine if the horse is suitable for you. It maybe a one off occurrence or there might have been indicators you missed that a more experienced horse person would have caught and corrected before getting kicked.

In my case, I have been riding/handling horses for 20+ years and dealt with less serve handling issue in the past. I also work with a trainer. If my horse had not shown substantial improvements, I would not have kept him.

[Horseman15]

A couple of things right off you did to create your situation;

1st, he was eating and wasn’t expecting any contact in that area so you probably spooked him
2nd, you squatted down beside him
3rd, you don’t have his attention on you

Now, these are simple rookie mistakes and not any indicator that your horse is a kicker. Imagine that you’re eating your dinner and someone grabs you between your legs from under the table. Sore or not you’re going to kick and jump right? That’s basically what you did to your horse. You’re fortunate that all he did was cow kick you. Lesson learned

For future reference always have your horse’s attention when you go to touch him. You can desensitize them to most anything with enough work, but some have areas they just don’t like being touched. I always talk to my horses before I touch them - ALWAYS. That way they know I’m there so if they feel something they aren’t surprised. Secondly, whenever I go to touch my guy’s sheath I always stand with my back to his face. He doesn’t bite so that’s not an issue for me. He had issues with beans when I first got him. Fortunately for me he would kick with the leg on the other side from me when he was in pain with them. Have your vet teach you how to clean his sheath and the end of his penis so he doesn’t get beans.

Don’t beat yourself or the horse up about this. It was a simple mistake. I had my guy for a year and a half when he cow kicked me. It was my fault he did. The girl at the barn looped his leg straps together so when I slid my hand up under his blanket to check if he was warm the straps squashed his tackle and I got kicked. Couldn’t get mad at him for that one and it wasn’t any indication he was dangerous. It was all me. We all do dumb stuff :lol:

[bitranchy]

If you got him in the state you said he was in, good chance his sheath hasn’t been cleaned for a long time. A swollen sheath can be indicative of other health issues, but my assumption is there’s a lot of gunk up there that’s been left to sit for awhile and has become painful for him. It may require someone more skilled than you (ie. a vet) and some sedative to clean it the first time.

With any horse, I don’t attempt unfamiliar or previously badly received things with them if there’s no quick exit for me. Most horses will give you a few warnings when you’re potentially putting yourself in a bad way with them, if you’re paying enough attention to pick up on them. If he’s distracted with his feed, he’s not paying attention to you and can’t give you the benefit of warning you before he reacts. Sometimes we do things without thinking, but what we do may come as a surprise to the horse and a surprised horse isn’t often one you want to be at the mercy of.

Don’t kick the horse back, that’s not going to improve the situation. If you are new to horse ownership, or new to horses in general, it is probably best to see if there’s a trainer in your area who can come out and help you. Working on desensitizing him once he’s had his sheath cleaned, and possibly checked by a vet if you haven’t had one out recently, is where to start. Running your hands over different parts of his body while watching for a change in expression (his ears laying back, his face becoming drawn, his neck getting stiff, etc) will let you know where he isn’t okay being touched. Don’t squat beside him, it takes your ability to move out of range away from you. However, I’d recommend doing this with a trainer or, in the very least, more experienced horseperson. Sometimes the most dangerous place with a horse is beside them. That’s not intended to scare you, and I’ll admit I often take liberties around horses I know, but it’s just a reminder not to take things for granted. Plenty of folks have ended up in a bad shape from forgetting some of the safety rules with these animals.

[keysfins]

I would also add that it is never wrong to wear a helmet when handling horses. It may seem like overkill on safety, but with a horse that you are just getting familiar with or starting more desensitizing to hands-on care, handling feet, etc., a helmet could save your noggin. Things can happen very fast around horses, and a helmet can give you some added protection from dire injury to the head/brain.

[Bluey]

Before touching a horse, let him know you are going to be touching him, start where he is used to you touching him and work to the spot you may think he could be ticklish.

Even the quietest horse can be surprised and kick out without realizing what is happening.

If a horse is regularly bad about kicking, then you have to worry about how safe that situation may be.

Good that you have the vet come check things over, he can tell you more.

While you have the vet there, he is seeing the horse and can tell you how quiet and safe he really is or if there is something that concerns him about your safety around him and what to do about it.

[gumtree]

No snark intended but it’s not the horse that needs “training” in this situation.

The horse reacted pretty much as ANY horse would have as described, “the cause and reaction”.

I would bet when you vet “checked” him. They started by standing back from the horse, squatted for a look see, got up, stood near but “back” from the horse. Ran their hands over his side and slowly evenly towards his sheath and palped. At any given time they were ready for the reaction the horse gave you. But they were in a position and have the intuitive reaction from years of working with horses. To be ready to get out of the way knowing there is a good chance the horse is going to do exactly what it did.

Experienced hands can “see” exactly what is needed to “see”. I would bet the horse was not enjoying his dinner/breakfast at the time. Some horses a lot of horses don’t like to be fooled with while eating. By humans and especially not by another horse.

Intuitive reaction to any given situation is gained from working around horses for years. A lot can be learned from working with good mentors. A lot is learned from our mistakes, taking our lumps and bumps, kicks and bites. Good horsemen rarely get kicked or bitten. We have acquired a “6th” sense our body reacts before our mind starts to process what is coming. Being able to walk talk, chew gum, pat our head with one hand and rub our belly with the other. While holding a conversation.

[musicmaker5166]

We did have horses for a couple years before I left my parents home - but I wasn’t responsible for their care and there’s been so much to learn!! I have so far to go, but am excited to learn from my horses - so thankful that this incident has been relatively minor!

@sheltoneb - I’ve done a ton of desensitizing with him and have plans for trainer in the Spring. I had thought that my first step was to get him used to his new home, establish trust with him and get him through winter. Spring has been my goal for the trainer and I was thinking to send him there rather than have one come to me. Which do you think would be better?

@Horseman15 - you are absolutely correct that I set him up for failure. Hindsight is so valuable in learning and I’ve NEVER before just touched him without getting his attention. In looking back - how ignorant of me! I was nervous because he doesn’t even like his belly touched and I was more concerned about the swelling & had some fairy tale thought that if he let me touch it - I could probably get it cleaned out. I know that he has beans - I’ve seen them and will get a vet here today. I love the way you write btw

@bitranchy - I got him from a man who claims to have had him for nearly a year. The horse is an amazing trail horse and he had rides mountainous long trails. This horse was the one they used for “beginners”. He is a herd bound sort and it’s my assumption he did so well with this man because he would follow the mare from his pasture. The horse was ranted and raved about by many local horseman for his dealing with first time trail riders. BUT - they did say he was hard to catch and shy on the side of his ripped ear. The man who sold him to me said that the horse was at auction and was a bag of bones. When I bought him - he was on the lighter side & has since gained well. Once he was home - it took some work on my part to be able to walk up to him. I’ve been able to desensitize his head shy (for me to touch him), halter shy, running away from people, jumping at any little sound or motion & just being touched. Once I could touch him - I found sores under his chin and was able to get them healed up. I’ve seen the stones when his penis was dropped and I do suspect it was never cleaned. We have alot of amish in the area and I found also that he hates a straw hat. The slice in his ear - not sure if that came from abuse or an accident. BUT - he has come very, very far with me (not so much men).

[CFFarm]

Now you know…

[musicmaker5166]

AND… the vet says it’s no big deal. He says to do nothing because it’s just edema from standing in the barn during hte horribly cold week we’ve had.

[2DogsFarm]

Good to hear you were not hurt worse & that the swollen sheath is not more than edema.
DH’s TWH would get edematous also & it always worried me until I got him cleaned out < sometimes by me, sometimes by vet.

You’ve gotten some good advice already, just wanted to add when you are working with the back end of a horse - facing away from the head - keep the hand nearest the horse resting lightly on him. If your hand is resting on the croup or back leg you can feel any tensing up that might indicate a kick in the making.

And forget about kicking him back - unless you are wearing steel-toed boots & have the quads of a sprinter you cannot kick a horse hard enough to get your message across. Plus you are not teaching anything, just being an annoyance.
Raising your voice in a resounding “NO!” using the Horsemen’s Growl will do more to let him know that was not a Good Thing to try.
& remember the John Lyons 3-Second Rule - discipline for 3 seconds then go back to Business as Usual,

[Kodidog763]

@keysfins

I would also add that it is never wrong to wear a helmet when handling horses. It may seem like overkill on safety, but with a horse that you are just getting familiar with or starting more desensitizing to hands-on care, handling feet, etc., a helmet could save your noggin. Things can happen very fast around horses, and a helmet can give you some added protection from dire injury to the head/brain.

I think this bears repeating. Several years ago one of my mares had a really bad case of scratches. I wore a helmet and my body protector vest while treating her. Overkill? Probably, but I had to put myself in a pretty vulnerable position while working on her hind legs, and I wasn’t in a position to move very quickly if she reacted. I wanted as much “protection” as I could get.

[gumtree]

@CFFarm

Now you know…

Lol, Exactly what my mother said after taking a knee to my nose as youngster putting bandages on while squatting slightly off to the side of the horses front legs. But looking directly in front trying to inspect, watching my work . Instead of to the side as taught and repeatedly told.

50 years later I still think about that while putting bandage on. My mom was “tough love” when it came to working with, around horses. Attention to detail was everything, One had to earn from years of experience the badge of honor called “Horseman”.

[musicmaker5166]

I wasn’t very clear - - the Vet refused to come look and said it was only edema.

[Mango20]

Some horses are very touchy about having their sheaths or udders touched. It sounds like you took him by surprise, and maybe he’s never been touched there before. You might have to have the vet sedate him for a thorough cleaning.

I got a rescue mare just about two years ago, who would kick out if you even tried to get near her udder. I spent a long time desensitizing her to it. Every day I would STAND by her side and touch her belly where the girth goes, then slowly slide my hand back just to where she started getting anxious (but trying to keep my body out of kicking range), then give her a scratch there and hold my position until she stopped looking so angry. Then I’d stop there for the day. It took weeks or maybe even months before I could actually touch her udder. If she did threaten to kick, I would make a harsh sound but hold my position if possible. Now, she is completely okay with a direct udder touch, and has actually joined my other mares in really loving having it cleaned. I wouldn’t expect such a turnaround with a gelding, but you can probably get to the point where you can clean it for him. Just always be watching his body language so you know when he starts getting upset.

[bitranchy]

That seems incredibly odd that the vet refused to come out. Call a different vet.

[2DogsFarm]

@musicmaker5166

I wasn’t very clear - - the Vet refused to come look and said it was only edema.

You need a new vet.
UNLESS:

1. This vet recently examined the horse & noted edema
2. Travel in your area is dangerous & from your description vet determined no emergent care/farm call was needed

IIWM, I’d call vet & ask both of the above before writing him/her off

[AnotherRound]

All I can do is laugh. A formerly neglected horse who is eating, an innately territorial thing, and you tuch a swollen sore area? And didn’t think you would get kicked? Also never squat. You don’t know what might require you to move out of the way fast. Lesson learned for you. Don’t blame the horse for this one.

[SonnysMom]

OP- I am not sure if you quite understand what people mean when they refer to the bean. It would be extremely hard if not impossible to see the bean. The bean develops in the urethra so isn’t generally visible. This article has a good drawing of where the bean is.
http://www.equusite.com/articles/health/healthSheathCleaning.shtml

At this point I would have the vet out to tranq the horse and clean the sheath. They can show you how to safely do it for future cleaning.
Sorry you got kicked.

[musicmaker5166]

I called a second vet who simply told me to hose his sheath out myself which is a very dangerous proposition for me. Also that vet says it could be worms and to bring in a stool sample? (he was wormed a few weeks ago with zimectrin gold). The stool sample I can handle - the other I cannot do without sedation as my husband already tried that two weeks ago and the gelding didn’t tolerate it well so my husband stopped. That was with zero hand to sheath contact - simply spraying it from a distance with a hose. He does well for the rest of his body to be bathed.

@SonnysMom you are likely correct in my wrong label of the bean. I have seen lumps of what I assume to be smegma that are housed between his penis and his sheath while it is retracted. When his penis is exposed - these lumps are suck to it, near the base. I have no idea of the actual urethral opening - but can say that he leaves orange urine (I do know that can be normal unless it comes out orange, of which I’m not sure).

@AnotherRound it is crazy of me! Absolutely! It’s not that I was thinking he wouldn’t kick me - it’s that I wasn’t thinking period. DUh on me! :eek: I’m so thankful that it resulted in only a bruise and minor swelling! If I were him - I’d have done the same thing.

@2DogsFarm the horse has yet to be seen by a vet in my care. The first vet I called has taken care of all our other animals (dog, 3 cats, 17 Angus & 11 chickens). I do not believe a vet has seen him in quite awhile as the one I purchased him from…