symptomatic HYPP

[BDG]

I purchased my first horse almost 1 year ago. He was a gorgeous 4yr old AQHA gelding with an amazing puppy dog personality. Little did I know, he has HYPP N/H. I was never told of his condition, nor did I even heard of Impressive. I’m a whole lot more educated on the matter now. Anyways he has had about 12 episodes, in less than a year, that I have personally witnessed…he could be having many more I don’t see. They generally consist of tremors around his girth, belly, shoulder and neck. Karo syrup has seemed to help when I give it to him. But over the last five days he has had three episodes. One so severe, his entire body was fascilating causing his head to bob up and down and compromise his breathing. He was breathing very heavily and rapid as well as wheezing. The karo seemed to decrease the tremors by 80% and the breathing sound more normal. I have him on the proper HYPP diet with 24/7 turnout. At the moment he doesn’t get much exercise. I still have a ton of snow on the ground. Here are my questions…I love this horse immensely! I am considering putting him on acetazolimde and see if it helps decrease his attacks. Where do you all purchase this med??? It is very expensive. And last question …once a horse becomes this symptomatic, do you feel it’s more humane to euthanize and not consider the medication??

For those reading this post that breed N/H, please consider the health and well being of the animal. You are playing Russian roulette with a 50% chance of perpetuating the issue and a 100% chance of not knowing the severity of symptoms these horses may endure.

[JB]

I’m SO sorry you hit the “perfect storm” - didn’t know, weren’t told, and wow, so many attacks at such a young age

Is your hay tested?

This is such a hard situation. I won’t speak to how well ace is likely to control his symptoms - I know it works very well, I just don’t know if there’s a decrease in effectiveness if the horse is highly symptomatic like your guy.

You are 100% right on how utterly immoral and unethical breeders of HYPP horses are :mad: They use the “most n/H horses are fine their whole lives” to justify it, and totally ignore the horses who are not only symptomatic, but have frequent attacks like yours, or attacks so severe it kills them, or attacks so bad they injury or kill a human. It’s reprehensible :mad: :mad:

[mmeqcenter]

Absolutely reprehensible that anyone continues to breed these horses. My first horse was an APHA yearling filly who ended up passing at five years old from an attack. She was N/H and only had one “minor” attack" before the one that took her life. I too had never heard of it when I got her, and I learned all about it when I went to sell her as a four year old. If I ever consider buying anything with quarter horse, paint, or appaloosa blood in the future, I will be testing it first if it isn’t already tested. IDC if they supposedly “don’t have Impressive bloodlines.” People lie.

I’m very sorry you are dealing with this, OP. I would euthanize.

[Ghazzu]

Acetazolamide is a prescription drug–talk to your DVM about it.
And don’t be reluctant to ask them to write you a prescription for it, if it is appropriate.

[findeight]

Yes, hate to say it but when it manifests this bad on one this young, it will kill him as it goes on. Add that to the fact it must be terrifying for the horse to endure these episodes, particularly when they start falling down. Nothing more terrifying for a prey animal then going down. Not to mention people have been seriously injured when riding or handling one of these horses when they abruptly go dow.

What a terrible place for you to be in. Spoil him a little but it’s a decision that must be made and the responsible thing to do. Unlike the breeders actions.

Do the AQHA papers these days carry an HYPP status notation?

[CupOJavaa]

My heart breaks for you and for your horse. He sounds incredibly sweet and well mannered and you seem to love him so much. I cannot offer any insight to the effectiveness of that drug as I do not have experience with it. I just want to share my condolences and opinion. In this case I would humanely euthanize.

[joiedevie99]

I see no harm in trying him on the prescription drug. There is a chance it will help him. That said, he’s so young to be so very symptomatic. If the drug doesn’t give him near complete relief, or if it does for a period of time and then stops working, I’d strongly consider letting him go. So sorry you are dealing with this.

[JB]

@findeight

Do the AQHA papers these days carry an HYPP status notation?

If tested, and if tested via the AQHA-approved panel, it will be on their official papers.

But there’s no requirement for any testing to be done unless the horses is intended for breeding and the foal is to be registered. So all those geldings, all those never-intended-to-be-bred mares, don’t have to be tested. A horse may have a designation of being negative due to parentage (ie both parents were NN for a disease) so a test isn’t always required.

[walktrot]

There was plenty of knowledge and plenty of discussion in the AQHA and APHA about HYPP in the 1990s. Both associations have instituted rules over the years starting with reporting HYPP status and moving to requiring testing. They have been restricting and ultimately will ban registration of any HYPP-positive foal. If you have a registered 4 y.o. QH that is N/H it has been bred by someone who indeed is unethical. I believe that information has to appear on the registration. One way or another it should have been provided.

My 1994 registered Paint gelding has Impressive once in his pedigree as great grandsire. He looks like a TB not a stock horse. I knew nothing about Impressive and HYPP when I bought him in 2001. I asked the vet about testing. He said it wasn’t necessary if I wasn’t going to sell him. He also said that since he spent 27 hours in a trailer from Iowa to Maine and was asymptomatic it was unlikely he had it. The only possibilities were N/H or N/N.

I had acquired enough information to put him in the All-breed Pedigree database so I was able to confirm that Impressive was in there once. His sire and grandsire both are N/H. Their status was added to their individual pedigrees within the last couple of years, well past their dates of death.

The one other thing we heard about HYPP concerns a young QH mare that a family bought in Canada more than 15 years ago. Circumstances changed and they couldn’t keep her so they gave her to the BO as a lesson horse. She had an attack a while back that turned out to be HYPP, but that was the only one. We were told that some breeders took HYPP-positive horses to Canada without papers and sold them as unregistered or grade horses.

[skydy]

@BDG

I purchased my first horse almost 1 year ago. He was a gorgeous 4yr old AQHA gelding with an amazing puppy dog personality. Little did I know, he has HYPP N/H. I was never told of his condition, nor did I even heard of Impressive. I’m a whole lot more educated on the matter now. Anyways he has had about 12 episodes, in less than a year, that I have personally witnessed…he could be having many more I don’t see. They generally consist of tremors around his girth, belly, shoulder and neck. Karo syrup has seemed to help when I give it to him. But over the last five days he has had three episodes. One so severe, his entire body was fascilating causing his head to bob up and down and compromise his breathing. He was breathing very heavily and rapid as well as wheezing. The karo seemed to decrease the tremors by 80% and the breathing sound more normal. I have him on the proper HYPP diet with 24/7 turnout. At the moment he doesn’t get much exercise. I still have a ton of snow on the ground. Here are my questions…I love this horse immensely! I am considering putting him on acetazolimde and see if it helps decrease his attacks. Where do you all purchase this med??? It is very expensive. And last question …once a horse becomes this symptomatic, do you feel it’s more humane to euthanize and not consider the medication??

For those reading this post that breed N/H, please consider the health and well being of the animal. You are playing Russian roulette with a 50% chance of perpetuating the issue and a 100% chance of not knowing the severity of symptoms these horses may endure.

Is a vet involved in treating your horse? Your post makes it sound as if there is no vet involved (why ask where to buy a prescription veterinary medicine?) You need a vet to help manage this.

[BDG]

To answer all of your questions.
1). My veterinarian is VERY involved! Ordering a prescription out of Canada is over 50% the cost of US pharmacies. That is why I asked.

2). His status was listed on his registration papers, but as I mentioned, I had no idea what it meant or who Impressive was, since I didn’t care whether he was registered or grade. I just wanted a good solid horse. Now I know what HYPP is and have researched it heavily.

3). It is very difficult to find straight Timothy hay in my area. I pretty sure I purchased the entire crop from this particular field. Most hay is forage grasses and alfalfa blends, which he clearly can not eat.

[skydy]

I’m sorry that you are in this difficult position. Having so many episodes is worrisome.

The AQHA dropped the ball big time about 35 years ago and is now belatedly trying to rectify the situation, though not hard enough in my opinion. The fact that N/H horses are still being bred is inexcusable.

Your vet can help you decide if euth would be the kindest option.
Good luck and best wishes from Colorado.:yes:

[RainWeasley]

Wait are they allowing N/H horses to breed? That seems incredibly stupid.

I’m so sorry OP, this sounds miserable to deal with.

[JB]

@walktrot

If you have a registered 4 y.o. QH that is N/H it has been bred by someone who indeed is unethical.

There are still plenty of uneducated owners out there breeding registered animals. Imagine this OP scenario - what if this mare had never become symptomatic, she decided to breed her this very Spring, the stallion is n/n and like the OP, the stallion owner doesn’t know about HYPP, and she gets a n/H foal.

I believe that information has to appear on the registration.

It doesn’t have to appear if they were born before 1/1/2007. If they are a descendant of Impressive and born before 2007, the papers will at least have a designation stating as such with testing recommended (unless born before 1998)

I knew nothing about Impressive and HYPP when I bought him in 2001. I asked the vet about testing. He said it wasn’t necessary if I wasn’t going to sell him. He also said that since he spent 27 hours in a trailer from Iowa to Maine and was asymptomatic it was unlikely he had it. The only possibilities were N/H or N/N.

And there you have an un/under-educated vet not understanding the disease, which was absolutely known by then.

We were told that some breeders took HYPP-positive horses to Canada without papers and sold them as unregistered or grade horses.

They don’t even have to be taken to Canada - just sell a “grade” horse right here in the US. And that is how HYPP gets spread far and wide because you KNOW people breed those unregistered nH mares (HH too I’m sure, because those are not registerable, can’t be shown as a QH, so get sold without papers. The QH x Belgian is a relatively common cross. Quarabs. The QH gets crossed with everything it seems, largely because their numbers are so large. The QH is the largest breed represented in slaughter/kill pens simply because they are the largest breed in the US.

@RainWeasley

Wait are they allowing N/H horses to breed? That seems incredibly stupid.

$$$$$$$$$$$ So many huge money-winning stallions and mares are nH and money talks.

I don’t know how new this is, but an Appendix can no longer get QH papers if he is nH. So at least that avenue isn’t adding to the issue.

If born on/after 1/1/2007, all foals have to be tested (if descendant from Impressive) in order to get registration papers.

Prior to that, if they weren’t producing registered foals, they didn’t have to be tested. This means there are untested horses out there.

[Bluey]

It is good to know your history.
Once HYPP was a known disease and a test was developed for it, with AQHA funds for the research, the AQHA had a problem.
They had spent years fighting the right of an association to make rules of what horses could be registered and which ones not and why.
There was a rule about how much white was acceptable and more than that, past a certain line in knees and hocks and no more than a quarter sized white skin on the body and not more than so much white in the face.
That was to keep AQHA horses solid, not have paint genes cropping up, as they were regularly.

Then there was Melvin Hatley, an AQHA breeder that had some top horses, but here and there an excellent prospect would be a dropout, have too much white to be registered.
He insisted that, if both parents were registered, it was his right to have any offspring be registered, that the white rule was unconstitutional, depriving him of his rights.
The white rule, according to him, was not legally sustainable and so he sued the AQHA.
The AQHA, with the support of other breeders and breed associations, disagreed and fought that lawsuit with all they had.
They lost.
They also lost a considerable amount of money doing that.
Money that would have help to run the association, to manage their breed activities, to start new programs, to support more research.

In that scenario HYPP sprung up.
Now, breeders with Impressive bred horses, subject to HYPP, had top horses that now were going to become worthless and many believed their horses were so good, they were otherwise, and they could bred their way out of that problem.
They were threatening a lawsuit if the AQHA would outright ban positive horses, as they were considering.
The AQHA didn’t feel that it had the finances to fight another such lawsuit right then, one they very well could end up losing also.

What did the AQHA do?
They put out much information about HYPP, still do, installed rules to over so many years requiring horses to be tested and some, more and more as they go along, be then denied registration if positive.
Their legal department is who tweaked all that.
The AQHA was all along following every conceivable opportunity of a lawsuit over that not happening.
Lesson learned, they were hoping to have a better chance of winning, having demonstrated they really were trying to upheld breeders individual rights, even if in their opinion misguided.

There you have it, why HYPP was not immediately, once testing was possible, made a reason to deny registration to all breeding stock testing other than N/N, as common sense demanded and they well knew.

Don’t know why other associations have not been more proactive, but I expect they too have their own reasons for that.
As of today, shame on any and all that don’t test, or breed if other than N/N, no matter who they are, what breed their horses may be.

Any breeder today should test for all applicable diseases there are tests for.
Many do, and those that don’t should be shunned.
Don’t buy from them, don’t breed to their stallions.
Today it is up to anyone breeding to do their due about this.
After all these years, there is NO excuse today not to use tested breeding stock and not to use any other than HYPP N/N ones, or to support those that don’t test or still breed affected breeding stock.

[JB]

@Bluey

Any breeder today should test for all applicable diseases there are tests for.
Many do, and those that don’t should be shunned.
Don’t buy from them, don’t breed to their stallions.
Today it is up to anyone breeding to do their due about this.
After all these years, there is NO excuse today not to use tested breeding stock and not to use any other than HYPP N/N ones, or to support those that don’t test or still breed affected breeding stock.

Exactly - money talks, and that goes both ways. If people don’t buy a product you’re producing, you’ll stop producing that product and create one that people will buy.

Buyers are just as much a part of this problem as breeders are.

As a buyer, you have every opportunity to not support a breeder who breeds HYPP or PSSM horses, who knowingly breeds Frame x Frame or HERDA x HERDA, etc. And by not support, I mean don’t buy ANYthing, even if they are clear.

There are plenty of reputable and responsible breeders out there. You don’t need a horse so badly that you are willing to support these practices.

And as an owner, even if you didn’t buy directly from the breeder, you’re just as bad as the breeders if you condone the practice of HYPP by saying how easy they are to manage “if you do it right”, or use the symptomatic-free horse you have as justification why it’s ok.

[goodhors]

Well said JB!!

[findeight]

Additional complication that gets noobs sucked into falling for Impressive bred horses is, well, most of them are impressive looking. Really pretty, bright chestnut color, lots of chrome, good bodied with refinement. Even many generations removed it shows, and many times it shows because these many generations on the family tree.go back to the same horse concentrating those genes. Which is how they got there in the first place. If one is good, two is better and if you breed those two you should get more better, right?

Or attempting to concentrate desirable genetic traits, concentrate the not so desirable ones and end up with sick and crazy. But they are pretty and win pretty, shiny things so sell well. And those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it and buy, buy, buy.

Personally can’t believe we are still dealing with this 40 years later in a breed that breeds more horses then any other registry and has seen enough generations to learn it’s not going away. Why they tolerate the “ You can’t win in Halter with an N/N” attitude beats me. And I heard that, again, just about a month ago.

What’s APHA doing these days? That’s where the high whites and crop outs went before that lawsuit…with a name change and…edited…papers. One bright chestnut high white looking like another and a little red sharpie lengthening a stocking on the papers. Back then they were done by hand and kept in file cabinets, mistakes happen…

As far as stopping them from breeding, it’s not against the law. Only way to stop it is not buying them…but they win and are pretty so…just like puppy mills.

[walktrot]

JB, I should have been clearer because I agree with what you said. I was thinking about horses registered with the AQHA which does have rules. I don’t know what rules for APHA and the ApHA are but it makes sense they are similar to the AQHA. My horse was foaled in 1994, is a registered sabino Paint, and looks like his extensive TB ancestors, not Impressive. Without question I was an uninformed buyer in 2001. He was too handsome to pass up… There was information available but it wasn’t widespread. I didn’t know there was anything to be concerned about and why until a local Paint breeder saw his papers and told me about it. The horse genome was wasn’t fully mapped until 2006. Genetic testing was available but not as sophisticated as it is these days.

What I was trying to say is that a breeder of registered QH is unethical if they are not disclosing the HYPP status to a buyer. That is information they should have, and it they don’t they should do something about it.

HYPP isn’t going to disappear. Impressive has something like 2500 progeny. We know that he had significant influence on several registries. We know that many horses were bred without knowing their status, including without doubt unknown numbers of grade horses. The reason that family went to Canada is because they were able to buy a horse cheaper up there. They found a nice sorrel mare which appeared to be a grade horse. No one had any idea she was HYPP positive until she went down during a lesson several years after they left the barn and gave the mare to the BO. That is the only attack she has had, and she still is a nice steady mount in the lesson program.

The way the rules have been structured the AQHA, and probably APHA and ApHA might come close to eliminating HYPP from registered horses. Testing is available now for color and pattern, other medical conditions, other traits such as speed, and parental verification. As findeight says, it is amazing that the issue continues to come up after 40 years.