Symptoms of Loose Stifles?

[KDuheme]

Hi everyone!

I have read through the previous COTH posts about loose stifles, but also have some additional questions that I am not sure if I am dealing with one problem or more than one… here are the facts!

I think my horse has a case of loose stifles, when riding he has a hard time stepping underneath himself, and when he is tired he will often do the “back leg falling out from under you” thing (I am going to attempt to get this on video, its hard because it only happens here and there). He is not lame whatsoever.

Other things that he does, which I am wondering if they are tied to the same thing, or if there is something else: He nearly lays down for the farrier every time he gets his feet done. All four feet, fronts he will nearly lay down on you, and hinds he will pick up no problem but he wont hold them up himself (and he’s a big dude to be holding up that much leg!!!) Often with the front legs if I give him a poke or a swat he will stand up straight again, so i assumed it was just a behaviour thing. Hinds as well, just assumed his was being lazy. Also with his hind feet, I will often try to do stretches with him, but it almost seems like he struggles to bend the leg at all? Its very odd.

As well, when he just stands normal in the cross ties, he is always leaning quite forward (over his shoulder type of thing). He is definitely not laminitic, is this just confirmation?

Finally, when he jumps, he will often leave that hind end trailing out behind him over the jump, there is definitely no tuck with the hind feet. Again, could just be his style, but I am trying to put all the pieces together.

Anyone have any thoughts? I should also mention he has been tested for both types of PSSM and both came back negative.

Thanks!

[beau159]

@KDuheme

I think my horse has a case of loose stifles, when riding he has a hard time stepping underneath himself, and when he is tired he will often do the “back leg falling out from under you” thing (I am going to attempt to get this on video, its hard because it only happens here and there). He is not lame whatsoever.

This is what my horse Red would do. I finally took him to the vet after I noticed (on video) he was cross firing in his barrel turns. Turns out his right stifle was “catchy” (or loose). His would never lock on him, but if I let him get strung out at the trot, he would “step in a hole”.

We tried injecting but I can’t say it really helped. I just really focused on riding him right and making him stay collected while riding. Avoid small circles if you can, but hill work is really helpful along with serpentines and low caveletti.

Have you already taken him to a vet for a lameness exam? They should be able to detect some lameness from the affected stifle during flexions.

[BlueDrifter]

Following!

My guy has the “step in the hole” thing, giving out of his left hind when on a relaxed walk AND he does the “lay down on farrier” thing with his front feet. I can poke him and he will stand up, but it is his tendency every time. Hind feet he lifts and holds with no problem. My guy is also a big, foundation QH – not fun to have him leaning on you!

[JB]

Not necessarily “loose”, though maybe, but possibly just weak.

Can you post a conformation picture? And then one of how he normally likes to stand, leaning forward? And a close up of his feet, from the side.

He is butt-high? That straightens the stifle and can end up making it weaker/looser/subject to locking or slipping.

How old is he?

[KDuheme]

@JB

Not necessarily “loose”, though maybe, but possibly just weak.

Can you post a conformation picture? And then one of how he normally likes to stand, leaning forward? And a close up of his feet, from the side.

He is butt-high? That straightens the stifle and can end up making it weaker/looser/subject to locking or slipping.

How old is he?

Attached are some photos - sorry they are so crappy, I just went through my phone to see if I had any pics that would work. Definitely not butt high, and he is 7 now

[beau159]

@KDuheme

Attached are some photos - sorry they are so crappy, I just went through my phone to see if I had any pics that would work. Definitely not butt high, and he is 7 now

My horse Red was 7 when he was diagnosed.

It did seem to get better as the years went by. Some horses will “grow out” of it, if it’s weak stifles. It’s very important to keep them in regular correct exercise program.

[beowulf]

While loose stifles can be a thing, I find the term is colloquially misleading and thrown around – often applied to horses that have a stifle injury that hasn’t been diagnosed yet. In any event “loose stifles” would always make me walk away from a sale or project horse.

There are weak stifles, there are actually structurally loose stifles… but in my experience the actually structurally loose stifle is fairly rare (although as of late I do see more UFP), and it usually points to a brewing issue that needs to be addressed ASAP…

and weak stifles, my experience again, tend to be caused either as secondary to trauma elsewhere, OCD/lesions, or some undiagnosed injury in the stifle… If a month of estrone + hacking doesn’t fix the issue…

Everything in the OP sounds more like it’s possible this horse has a stifle injury". Slipping, not being able to hold itself up, not stepping under itself, leaning forward at rest, having trouble with the farrier, disunited while jumping (no tuck with hind feet)…

Actually, almost all of those are symptoms of a suspensory injury or DSLD more than anything. Not saying he has it, but those are symptoms of that as well…

Do you have a video?

Anyway, loose stifles needs to be diagnosed by films/radiographs, not by the naked eye – because there’s no way to know without looking at the actual tissue.

[TheHunterKid90]

A horse can be weak stifled and consequently the cords that help to hold the joint stable can become loose and floppy which can lead to injury. If you are just worried about the cords being loose, it’s very easy to counter irritate them and tighten them up quite a bit. We’ve also done a few internal blisters on really bad ones which a lot of success.
I would have your vet out to determine if it’s joint or soft tissue related and go from there. Shoeing changes can help too once you know whats going on.

[Pennywell_Bay]

OP- I recently encountered a similar issue(s) with my mare (tripping sometimes, not really wanting to work under herself) and some other minor things. She was never “off” but wasn’t performing optimally. She did get sore after she was in full training for 30 days.

We xrayed hocks and injected. Then after a month we xrayed her stifles and injected. Best. Move. Ever. We are still working on strengthening but about 45 days post injection she is solid, not stumbling and much better through transitions.

[Lusoluv]

My friend has an Appendix with this issue. Tends to drag one hind (which shears the hoof toe) and can be short stepping or weak until well warmed up. Vet injected the hock last month with only slight improvement. He’ll be injecting the stifle later this week. What did your vet inject, Pennywell? HA or steroids or a combination?

[skipollo]

My horse has the slipping stifles. It only ever happens at the trot, and it feels like a hind leg steps into a hole as other posters have said. He is much better when I can hack him out regularly (but I live in PA and it won’t stop raining.) He doesn’t have any of those farrier issues–he holds all four legs up easily and without fuss, so maybe his stifle issue isn’t as severe as what you’re dealing with. He also REALLY tucks his hind end over fences.

I did estrone injections and they helped a lot. They weren’t a “long term fix” as you have to keep injecting them semi regularly with them. I was doing maybe once a week or every two weeks after the loading dose? I can’t 100% remember, it was about a year ago. I may start him on them again because hacking is so hit or miss with the garbage weather we’ve had all summer up here that his hind end is feeling a little weak.

He has soundness issues in his hind end other than his stifles (arthritic hocks, gets injected, fairly standard.) We did inject his stifles last November, and it seemed to help. Injecting his hocks helped him the most of out all of the things we’ve done with him.

My vets said hills hills hills and keeping them working is really important. Even if you just get them out for a walk, keep them moving and active and working. I avoid lots of small circles as well.

[KDuheme]

Thanks for all the notes! I have chatted with my coach, and have booked a vet appointment for next week. Possibly going to blister stifles, and inject hocks… we will see what the vet says! At least when I bought him I got xrays done, so we will have a good starting point to see what has changed in the last 4 years! I will post what was the result of the vet visit and outcome

[beowulf]

@KDuheme

Thanks for all the notes! I have chatted with my coach, and have booked a vet appointment for next week. Possibly going to blister stifles, and inject hocks… we will see what the vet says! At least when I bought him I got xrays done, so we will have a good starting point to see what has changed in the last 4 years! I will post what was the result of the vet visit and outcome

Good update and good luck at the vet’s.

Regarding blistering… blistering is not my go-to and would be my last ditch attempt to remediate the problem. I have seen many horses blistered but very few became any sounder.

His x-rays as a 4 year old were good?

[JB]

I have to say, blistering wouldn’t be my next move either. It’s painful, you have to rehab without the use of anti-inflammatories, and it just doesn’t seem like the next logical step.

MY next step would be body work, and a good deep dive into his feet.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

I’m with JB and beowulf, blistering would be last resort for me. Good luck at the vet and let us know the outcome.

[KDuheme]

@beowulf

Good update and good luck at the vet’s.

Regarding blistering… blistering is not my go-to and would be my last ditch attempt to remediate the problem. I have seen many horses blistered but very few became any sounder.

His x-rays as a 4 year old were good?

I am definitely going to see what the vet says- blistering is just on the list of possible outcomes. I will definitely push it to the last resort, and only do it if it is COMPLETELY necessary and we have tried everything else!

His x-rays all came back clean except for an OCD in his right hock. He had it removed when he was three. There could possibly be some arthritis or something forming in that hock, but I sure hope not!

[KDuheme]

Hello everyone!

So vet visit was yesterday, here was the outcome:

1. Vet did the once over on Lou and found some fluids in left stifle and right hock, as well asked if I have ever had his pasterns xrayed because they were so wide (I have not had them done!)

2. Vet watched him move at walk, trot on a straight line and then walk, trot, canter while being lunged. Definitely agreed that he moved a little short with his hind end.

3. Flexions (sp?) - flexed joints, and everything was fine except for left stifle which was baaaddddd!

4. Xrayed left stifle, and the vet also xrayed his pasterns free of charge because he was curious as to what was going on in there (free is the best price )

5. All xrays came back good! No OCDs or any other deformations in either the stifle or the pasterns.

6. Decided to inject both hocks, and left stifle. Decided against blistering because horses usually flex just fine when they need to be blistered.

So here we are! Recovery is just 3 days off with bute, and then a light hack on the first day back and back to normal work next week! I sure hope this does the trick to make Lou more comfortable and happy!