Symptoms of ulcers or wishful thinking

[lenapesadie]

Short Version: Is it possible my horse has some sort of ulcer condition or hind gut acidosis and his only symptoms are increasing spookiness and stereotypey stall behaviors? Or is it just wishful thinking and his increasing spookiness is a training problem? Perhaps a management problem (maybe I have one of those horses that can’t be stalled)? Some other thing? Stereotypey stall behaviors (cribbing) is managed with constant forage access. I started suspecting ulcers when I read an article that indicated cribbing could be somewhat related to ulcers. My horse has become increasingly anxious and reactive in a way that seems more and more out of character for him.

Long Version: My gelding was foaled in my yard and lived with the herd he was born into until he was 6.5 years old at which point I moved him and his one remaining herd mate to a boarding facility. Him being spooky developed into an intermittent problem while at the boarding facility. He also began to crib. When I noticed he was learning to crib, I put him in a miracle collar ( the leather cribbing collar) and arranged for him to have access to hay at all times in his stall. The amount of hay and the way it was fed previously had been unsatisfactory prior to this. In fact I’ve posted about it. Horse quit trying to crib and I was able to remove the collar. Horse does not crib anymore, put he does lick at wood a bit.

During this time I ph tested a fecal sample and his ph level indicated acidosis. I have not tested since he’s been on free access to hay. Nor am I totally convinced that said home ph test is in fact scientific.

At this boarding facility he was also being fed an extremely high sugar grain mix. Up until he was boarded I hed fed a forage based diet plus vitamin / minerals and/or triple crown complete. At home he was turned out 24/7. When he is boarded he is in the stall approximately 16 hrs a day.

I have recently moved him to a new boarding facility, for a variety of reasons. He still has access to hay at all times when stalled. He is also currently eating Triple Crown Senior. I wanted a low sugar textured feed. Stall and turn out time are about the same as old facility. I am not noticing any cribbing or extra wood licking at new facility. He did not lick his feed tub quite as squeaky clean as normal the first three days. Hay consumption was down a bit too. He is eating normally now, but he is still very nervous and anxious acting. He’s been at this facility for 10 days now. He is extra extra spooky and reactive. Explosive at times.

Horse is in excellent weight and his coat is gleaming. He’s comfortable being groomed, tacked up, mounted and ridden. No pinny ears, ugly faces, cow kicks or anything like that.

Is it probable that my 8 year old horse has developed ulcers and his symptoms are increasing anxiety / spookiness and stereotypey stall behaviors? Any opinions on that ph testing could be an indicator of hind gut acidosis / ulcers?

[Dutchmare433]

It’s definitely possible your horse developed ulcers with all the changes he’s been through. And certainly spookiness can be a symptom of pain/discomfort. However, my guess would be the change from 24/7 turnout to just day time turnout. Some horses do fine mentally being stalled overnight, some don’t. I have one who is very hot, and she’s the same hotness with 24/7 or no turnout (her legs are a lot tighter w/ 24/7 though). My other one needs lots of turnout–24/7 fall-winter-spring. Overnight ~16hrs during the hottest parts of the summer. He can be a punk if he’s only out 7-8hrs a day.

For the hind gut stuff–what is his manure like? It can be tough to definitively diagnose unless there is enough inflammation in the right dorsal colon to be visualized via ultrasound. Re: pH–no idea if that would be legitimately indicative of hind gut ulcers–it’s not a regularly accepted method of diagnosis.

[lenapesadie]

@Dutchmare433

It’s definitely possible your horse developed ulcers with all the changes he’s been through. And certainly spookiness can be a symptom of pain/discomfort. However, my guess would be the change from 24/7 turnout to just day time turnout. Some horses do fine mentally being stalled overnight, some don’t. I have one who is very hot, and she’s the same hotness with 24/7 or no turnout (her legs are a lot tighter w/ 24/7 though). My other one needs lots of turnout–24/7 fall-winter-spring. Overnight ~16hrs during the hottest parts of the summer. He can be a punk if he’s only out 7-8hrs a day.

For the hind gut stuff–what is his manure like? It can be tough to definitively diagnose unless there is enough inflammation in the right dorsal colon to be visualized via ultrasound. Re: pH–no idea if that would be legitimately indicative of hind gut ulcers–it’s not a regularly accepted method of diagnosis.

His turn out situation is not ideal. Your second horse is on the turn out schedule that I would prefer. My boy doesn’t sweat well, managed on PP Refresh. If I can’t find a solution to help him feel more relaxed at our current farm, I may move him again. There is a second choice boarding farm that would provide the turn out schedule you describe for your second horse.

Manure seems fairly normal, a little bit soft. Not diarrhea. I will say that I’ve noticed in the past month that the balls in his manure seem a bit small and I’ve noticed twice that he seemed a tad uncomfortable passing manure. Also manure appears to have more of a greenish tinge than normal.

The ph testing was interesting to do (I love experiments) but I’m doubtful that the results are in any way scientific.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

[sophie]

You can always treat him for ulcers for a few weeks and see if his behavior changes.

I have a hot mare who tends to be spooky and explosive, and had ulcers in the past, and we treated her with Cimetidine then she was on U-gard pellets. Any time she becomes a pain under saddle (she is otherwise very nice to be around, grooming etc), I think ulcers.
Back in December she started her antics again under saddle. I put her on Daily Gold, and she is doing great even though it IS Spring…

[lenapesadie]

@sophie

You can always treat him for ulcers for a few weeks and see if his behavior changes.

I have a hot mare who tends to be spooky and explosive, and had ulcers in the past, and we treated her with Cimetidine then she was on U-gard pellets. Any time she becomes a pain under saddle (she is otherwise very nice to be around, grooming etc), I think ulcers.
Back in December she started her antics again under saddle. I put her on Daily Gold, and she is doing great even though it IS Spring…

Thank you so much for sharing! Your mare doesn’t exhibit symptoms other than the reactive behavior? I have considered doing a trial of ulcer treatment. There seems to be a few options and they seem to be different for different types of ulcers. I feel kind of silly exploring ulcers since so far his only symptoms are spookiness, anxiety, and wood licking. But if others are noticing spookiness as perhaps a first sign of ulcers developing then it seems more reasonable to explore treatments.

Thank you again for sharing. That’s exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for!

[sophie]

@lenapesadie when we treated her with Cimetidine, she also wasn’t eating well, and that did the trick for her. It was a pain to have to syringe it in her mouth 3 times a day, but much cheaper than Omeprazole. The vet told me to watch for other possible ulcer symptoms and reactive behavior / spookiness was one of them, so now I am proactive about these things. In the past I’ve used Nexium (or generic) in her food, too.

Good luck with your guy! It may just be that he needs more turnout time…

[lenapesadie]

@sophie

@lenapesadie when we treated her with Cimetidine, she also wasn’t eating well, and that did the trick for her. It was a pain to have to syringe it in her mouth 3 times a day, but much cheaper than Omeprazole. The vet told me to watch for other possible ulcer symptoms and reactive behavior / spookiness was one of them, so now I am proactive about these things. In the past I’ve used Nexium (or generic) in her food, too.

Good luck with your guy! It may just be that he needs more turnout time…

Thanks for sharing. He might need both!

[candyappy]

He could be developing ulcers .

The routine at the 2 boarding barns has him stressed./ bored /unhappy. He went from 24/7 turnout to stalled 16 hours a day. He is stuffed with food and has no way to release the pent up energy. He is probably missing the continued interaction of herd mates as well.

Some horses just don’t adjust to such a drastic change.

[lenapesadie]

@candyappy

He could be developing ulcers .

The routine at the 2 boarding barns has him stressed./ bored /unhappy. He went from 24/7 turnout to stalled 16 hours a day. He is stuffed with food and has no way to release the pent up energy. He is probably missing the continued interaction of herd mates as well.

Some horses just don’t adjust to such a drastic change.

I’ve got a call in to his vet to seek his opinion. Not sure how much vet will want to do during pandemic but horse will most likely survive a month or two more.

Fortunately he isn’t too stuffed since his hay is fed through a porta grazer. Love that thing and it really works. He eats the minimal ant of senior feed. But yes he is well fed and other wise in good health so plenty of energy.

If it seems that ulcers aren’t a suspect, or I am otherwise unable to mitigate his anxiety, I will move him to my second choice boarding facility. It lacks many services, but does offer 24/7 turn out options. After pandemic recedes of course.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts

[doublesstable]

Having horses most of my life I have not experienced a horse with ulcers until this past July… I read reports that say a majority of horses have ulcers.

I have a chestnut horse that years ago the vets thought had ulcers and scoped him and he was fine.

My sweet; energetic horse I have owned for 6 years and have been showing for 3 solid years who had always been full of life but a pretty much a saint one day while I was at the mounting block bolted frantically. I fell off. Tried with someone holding him to get back on and he bolted again… this was just not normal… he also started spooking and feeling very pressured while being ridden. With such behavior I decided to have him scoped. He was FULL of ulcers. It took 6 months before I felt he was happy feeling again. Three months of prescription medications and a super happy life. (Meds: Gastrogard, Misoprostal, and Sulcralfate) A lot of turn out; time with friends etc… I didn’t ride him for a while… then when starting him back I did a lot of easy quiet ground work… He is now on a bit of a different diet that I feel is working for him.

Orchard hay four times a day
Beet pulp mash am with supplements - Ground flaxseed, G-Track, Purina Outlast
Timothy pellet mash pm with supplements - Relyne GI, rice bran, Purina Outlast, and ABC Fortified Vitamin

If you are unable to work with your vet or get him scoped try treating him with some GI products. I like the Purina Outlast, the Immubiome G Track and the Relyne GI. And of course a life style change.

I sure hope you can help your horse…

[lenapesadie]

@doublesstable

Having horses most of my life I have not experienced a horse with ulcers until this past July… I read reports that say a majority of horses have ulcers.

I have a chestnut horse that years ago the vets thought had ulcers and scoped him and he was fine.

My sweet; energetic horse I have owned for 6 years and have been showing for 3 solid years who had always been full of life but a pretty much a saint one day while I was at the mounting block bolted frantically. I fell off. Tried with someone holding him to get back on and he bolted again… this was just not normal… he also started spooking and feeling very pressured while being ridden. With such behavior I decided to have him scoped. He was FULL of ulcers. It took 6 months before I felt he was happy feeling again. Three months of prescription medications and a super happy life. (Meds: Gastrogard, Misoprostal, and Sulcralfate) A lot of turn out; time with friends etc… I didn’t ride him for a while… then when starting him back I did a lot of easy quiet ground work… He is now on a bit of a different diet that I feel is working for him.

Orchard hay four times a day
Beet pulp mash am with supplements - Ground flaxseed, G-Track, Purina Outlast
Timothy pellet mash pm with supplements - Relyne GI, rice bran, Purina Outlast, and ABC Fortified Vitamin

If you are unable to work with your vet or get him scoped try treating him with some GI products. I like the Purina Outlast, the Immubiome G Track and the Relyne GI. And of course a life style change.

I sure hope you can help your horse…

Thank you so much for sharing. Horse has always been really well behaved. I started his under saddle training myself last summer with no issues. At that point he had been at that boarding facility for 7 months. He seemed fine then. But as we moved into fall he started acting spookier and more reactive. Now he seems like a totally different horse

Sounds like you have had good results with your boy. I’m anxious to hear back from my vet!

[candyappy]

@lenapesadie

I’ve got a call in to his vet to seek his opinion. Not sure how much vet will want to do during pandemic but horse will most likely survive a month or two more.

Fortunately he isn’t too stuffed since his hay is fed through a porta grazer. Love that thing and it really works. He eats the minimal ant of senior feed. But yes he is well fed and other wise in good health so plenty of energy.

If it seems that ulcers aren’t a suspect, or I am otherwise unable to mitigate his anxiety, I will move him to my second choice boarding facility. It lacks many services, but does offer 24/7 turn out options. After pandemic recedes of course.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts

I didn’t mean " stuffed" just we’ll fed as he can eat all the time. If you think it might be ulcers why not try the Nexium as described in a thread in this horse care section.

It is affordable and it won’t hurt him at all. Especially if you have to wait several months.

[IPEsq]

Increased spooking and reactivity was the primary symptom for my horse the first time around. Also after some big life changes for him. Only other thing was he would roll in his stall, and he would want to roll in hand. But just once. Not like he was colicking. But apparently that was not normal for him, which I learned from that experience. Even if it would make sense for any other horse, like he just had a bath. Nope, not him. He had to be on stall rest for months at one point and never rolled in his stall. Lay down, yes. Rolling was only an outside activity to him. So, I learned to treat any rolling in any other place as a potential belly pain symptom. It started to then escalate to girthy and body reactive behaviors. Scoped and found mild ulcers. After treating, he went back to his normal level of spookiness, which was more predictable.

[lenapesadie]

@candyappy

I didn’t mean " stuffed" just we’ll fed as he can eat all the time. If you think it might be ulcers why not try the Nexium as described in a thread in this horse care section.

It is affordable and it won’t hurt him at all. Especially if you have to wait several months.

I gotcha! I did want to clarify so you wouldn’t think I was pouring the grain to him. Some people do you know!

I was able to speak to my vet. He’s obviously not interested in doing an ulcer scope right now cause I think my horse is spookier than normal. He suggested giving horse more time to settle into new facility. He’s been there almost two weeks and he is better the past two days, but still overly reactive. And was more reactive at last facility the last 6 months than he ever was the 6 years before.

I may need to read that thread thoroughly. I’ve skimmed some of it previously. Trying Nexium is definitely on the table. I ordered a herbal supplement advertised as supporting ulcer prone horses, including hind gut issues. I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing both at the same time without some research to make sure it would be safe. I will likely take my vet’s advice of waiting another week or so before trying anything

[lenapesadie]

@IPEsq

Increased spooking and reactivity was the primary symptom for my horse the first time around. Also after some big life changes for him. Only other thing was he would roll in his stall, and he would want to roll in hand. But just once. Not like he was colicking. But apparently that was not normal for him, which I learned from that experience. Even if it would make sense for any other horse, like he just had a bath. Nope, not him. He had to be on stall rest for months at one point and never rolled in his stall. Lay down, yes. Rolling was only an outside activity to him. So, I learned to treat any rolling in any other place as a potential belly pain symptom. It started to then escalate to girthy and body reactive behaviors. Scoped and found mild ulcers. After treating, he went back to his normal level of spookiness, which was more predictable.

Wow! Thank you for sharing. My horse rolled while I had him in the round pen one day recently. Very out of character. He’s never rolled with me in a round pen or arena before. He wasn’t wet or sweaty. Very weird. Interesting.

Thank you again for sharing that was very insightful. Glad your boy is doing good !