Tack: How much is too much?

[PaintedHunter]

[QUOTE=UnlacedDreams;8654468]
This comment did make me giggle a bit, because it’s part truth but has a hint of good-natured condescension. My friend rides in a devoucoux and she’s still hopping over crossrails. She didn’t buy it to look like “a real eventer”, she bought it because she has the money and liked it. And I am very into fashion outside the “horse world”, so even if I never had any desire to compete I would probably still be matchy-matchy with colors.

However, reading between the lines I do know exactly the type individual you were really referring to. I just thought it was funny that the things you happened to use as examples were actually fairly innocent things.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I see no harm in matching outfits/color coordinating, whatnot for people of any level… why not have fun with it? And perhaps the saddles and tack they chose are what work best for their horses/them? I kinda feel bummed reading that… do people judge me for being all matchy for my BN rounds and having a strong bit on my horse at times? Womp womp.

[WW_Queen]

Michael Jung apparently rode all 3 Rolex phases in an eggbutt snaffle. While that is the dream for all educated riders on well-trained, responsive horses, there are many shades of grey right?

A young rider remarked to me (very seriously) how I looked “so professional” for my lower level XC clinic. I have accumulated almost 25 years of tack from riding countless horses. I now have a nice saddle thanks to years of saving. I have been a working student and put in the time with some awesome (and awful) horses and now I have a cool horse and some money but after a bit of time off we are starting at the lower levels together. But #sorrynotsorry.

when I try a horse for sale, unless they are very experienced I would rather try them out in basic gear with as little help as possible to see where they are really at. But you as a rider need to figure out a way to see past what the seller presents.

[soloudinhere]

[QUOTE=PaintedHunter;8654580]
Yeah, I see no harm in matching outfits/color coordinating, whatnot for people of any level… why not have fun with it? And perhaps the saddles and tack they chose are what work best for their horses/them? I kinda feel bummed reading that… do people judge me for being all matchy for my BN rounds and having a strong bit on my horse at times? Womp womp.[/QUOTE]

It’s one thing to have a strong bit on a strong horse, it’s another thing to have one in the hands of a 14 year old outfitted in $10,000 of tack their parents paid for so they could take pics of it for instagram.

But call me jaded.

I see adults do it too - I’m quite sure every event horse ever does not need a wonder bit, kolibri breastplate, ecogold pad, belly guard girth, lorenzini stirrups and monoflap saddle.

I’d guess this trainer selling this horse is one of the wannabe types (her off-kilter response sort of reinforces that…) who thinks buying all the gear somehow gets them around, and she’s probably selling to a market of people who are impressed by it. It’s fine, there’s a whole generation of people who fit that demographic nicely.

I don’t actually really care what people do or buy. But there is a definite tend to overdress the horse in every piece of equipment the upper level riders do, solely because the upper level riders do it. It’s definitely not because the exact same set of equipment works for every horse out there.

Ironically, I’m actually noticing a lot of upper level riders are going simpler with their equipment/colors lately.

[PaintedHunter]

Well my strong bit isn’t trendy… it’s a Western gag. :lol: :lol: :lol: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31mYHBCM6pL.jpg

And I do have a monoflap for my lowly BN self, but 1.) I just like the way it fits my odd legs and Ollie and 2.) I already have OMG SO MUCH HORSE HEFT BETWEEN MY LEGS that every centimeter less counts.

No belly guard girth though. If Ollie’s hoof ever so much as lightly whispers to his belly under saddle, I’ll give you a million dollars.

[PaintedHunter]

AND YOU CAN PRY MY NAVY BLUE AND LIGHT BLUE EVVVVERYTHING OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD HANDS.

[UnlacedDreams]

I agree that not every horse needs to be loaded up with tons of gear, and that there are definitely people who do it to look “cool” and feel like they’re a part of the “in crowd”. My only qualms regarding comments here are with things that are harmless rider’s choice things and aren’t unnecessary aides for the horse. Brands for things like pads/saddles/clothing, matching colors, fancy stirrups (Lorenzini, FreeJump, etc). Even if someone bought some Lorenzini stirrups to follow a trend and feel cool, I don’t see a problem with that. It doesn’t interfere with the horse’s well-being and is common in human societies to strive to feel like you belong to a group, which can often be symbolized by outward aesthetic choices. But I’m going to stop before I go full anthropologist and nerd-out.

[Winding_Down]

OP, I would NOT pass on this horse because the owner had an odd response to your query and/or because the horse is ridden in a double rein elevator bit. What if the horse is everything you want? You will not know if you do not go ride him.

Just ride him with the top ring only. The only equipment here that could possibly give me pause is the martingale but if it is adjusted properly, then it doesn’t matter. I would ask very definite questions about potential behavioral problems such as rearing.

Seller obviously is not a rocket scientist sales person as anyone wanting to push you into buying a horse would have taken video without all that get up.

Question: in the video, is the horse ridden mostly off the curb rein?

[Winding_Down]

I could care less if people want to dress their horses up in lots of gear. I have all that stuff so when my current OTTB is ready to compete, he will probably be in a 5-point breastplate with running attachment, a NS loose ring snaffle, boots, bell boots, and of course my nice saddle and pad. I already have that stuff and I certainly will not go out and buy a simple breastplate or a lesser saddle. It is possible that he will not need the martingale but if there is any hint that he might, then it will be on him.

Newcomers want to look the part and just like any other sport, they go out and buy the stuff that the “good” riders are using. It is great fun to go Holiday Shopping for friends who are new to the sport!

[fordtraktor]

a running martingale is a non a concern to me. I ride everything in one, particularly everything young, because it’s my “neckstrap” yoke (and more stable than a loose neckstrap). Plus, Steinkraus says in his book that a properly adjusted RM will save a jumper rider about one rail in four on the average horse. It’s standard issue and just about any pic you see of my horses will have a RM in it. It certainly doesn’t mean they rear! Or toss their heads, or have any real “reason” for having it on other than that any horse can have an off day and it’s better to have insurance than not. A RM is just money in the bank.

I don’t “need” to ride in expensive stirrups and whatnot. But I prefer to. I spent plenty of lean years riding in plain fillis irons, I can have my fancy stirrups now if I want to. Plus, I am older and all my old horse injuries ache less when I use them!

[UnlacedDreams]

I splurged on some Freejumps for safety and after reading reviews of people with leg problems liking them. My trainer rolled her eyes at first, but later said that she felt like my riding improved after I bought them. Yeah, because when I use them my lower leg doesn’t go numb 10 minutes in anymore! Yay!

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8654865]
a running martingale is a non a concern to me. [/QUOTE]

I agree. My only concern is that if the seller is riding with it very tight, it may be there to keep the horse from a full rear.

[Feliz]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8654865]
Plus, Steinkraus says in his book that a properly adjusted RM will save a jumper rider about one rail in four on the average horse. [/QUOTE]

Can you elaborate more on this? Why does it help with not taking rails?

[aregard]

@Xanthoria;8652624

Most horses don’t go in remedial tack unless there is something missing in the training. Or the seller has fallen prey to fad (flashes on dressage bridles are ubiquitous. Pessoa gags and grackle or figure 8 nose bands on eventers ditto)

I dunno about that. I’ve seen people put on any horse the tack “they (the rider) are used to”. The horse might not need a flash, but the rider puts it on anyway.

How many martingales are on hunters, completely incorrectly adjusted and useless?

I’m with whoever who suggested asking to see the horse go in a smooth plain snaffle.

[Xanthoria]

Yeah those fall into the “fallen prey to fad” category for me

I once tried a 5 yr old jumper who was presented to me in a long shanked hackamore and was heavy AF in the hand to boot. I asked “why the hack?” and didn’t get a clear reply. Certainly nothing about a mouth issue that required it. I asked to put the horse in a snaffle and he was a freight train.

Covering up your poor training with tack is sad.

[fordtraktor]

[QUOTE=Feliz;8657735]
Can you elaborate more on this? Why does it help with not taking rails?[/QUOTE]

A lot of jumpers will have rails because, at a show, sometimes the training (which you aim to have perfectly smooth) goes awry and it’s better to have the RM there as a backup in case. Appropriately adjusted it does absolutely nothing when all goes well. However, when you need it, it’s very useful. Most rails come from slight horse-rider miscommunications if you have a basically careful horse – it can help prevent them.

Say you are coming around the corner and see that you need to half halt to get your distance. (let’s not argue about whether, as riders, we ought to see distances. Assume that on a jumper, you ought to get your horse to a reasonable distance AND have a good canter.)

So, your horse is excited, and he comes around the corner and tosses his head. Now, I know that’s not ideal – also assume that at home he doesn’t do this, but just this once the horse does, and you have to deal with it while you are approaching a fence on course. That’s called “life”. the RM, properly adjusted, comes into practice. He settles, shortens his stride in time with his rear end still engaged, and you get a reasonable distance to the fence still in a nice canter. You jump that fence clean, and land in a good canter ready to continue four strides ahead to the next fence.

Say you don’t have a RM. Your horse tosses his head and there is nothing there to do anything about it. the half halt is less effective and so he bounds a bit past the distance you wanted, not to mention your canter is all over the place now and he’s strung out. You are deeper than you wanted and his hind end is not underneath him, so he has less power to get out of the poor distance you let him get to. Your chance of clearing this fence depends on how much scope and heart he’s got and how clever he is with his feet.

He will land on the other side very likely either not going forward at all, because he was careful and twisted in the air and hung up the forward motion trying to get himself over the first fence without hitting it. You’ll have to boot him forward to get down the line to fence #2. If you make it there on the decent distance, he’ll be even more strung out and you’ll be DARN dependent on his good will, adjustability, and heart to get over it clean. You might have simply taken too much power away from him for it to be possible for him to clear the back rail of the oxer at all. Do this enough times and the horse will not have much confidence left.

Option 2 is that the horse might be going forward and just hits out the top rail of the first fence and you can keep on a steady pace to the second on the four strides, even though you got it too close. if it’s a sensitive horse, it might get spooked a bit having had a rail and have to half halt down the line to get the distance. Here again your martingale might help you steady it.

Either way, it’s better to have the darn running martingale when that kind of thing happens. Of course, there are lots of rails when it would make no difference at all. and 99% of the time, it makes no difference at all when my horses wear one. It isn’t there to replace good training. It’s there to step in when the good training has a bad day. Because they aren’t machines, and neither am I. Far from it!

[Saskatoonian]

None of the stuff the OP described would bother or even surprise me. I’d much rather see an elevator with 2 reins than 1, and it’s uncommon enough that the seller would get bonus points from me.

I do consider the seller’s discipline when judging tack on a sale horse (and yeah, I do: if you’re a dressage rider, it had better not be wearing a kimberwicke or a Pelham!). A decently adjusted standing on a hunter wouldn’t bother me in the least. On an eventer, it’d raise eyebrows. Then there are the draw reins. There are pros and cons to them, but if you can’t put together a sale video without them, well …

[Saskatoonian]

None of the stuff the OP described would bother or even surprise me. I’d much rather see an elevator with 2 reins than 1, and it’s uncommon enough that the seller would get bonus points from me.

I do consider the seller’s discipline when judging tack on a sale horse (and yeah, I do: if you’re a dressage rider, it had better not be wearing a kimberwicke or a Pelham!). A decently adjusted standing on a hunter wouldn’t bother me in the least. On an eventer, it’d raise eyebrows. Then there are the draw reins. There are pros and cons to them, but if you can’t put together a sale video without them, well …

[Synthesis]

[QUOTE=soloudinhere;8652712]
There is absolutely a trend among low level eventing people to dress their horse in all kinds of equipment “like a real eventer” I see it all the time in the 2’ intro divisions - cwd, devoucoux, color coordinated outfits, and a gag figure 8 with a 5 point on a school pony. It’s just a trend and to be honest I would assume the same thing about a horse dressed that way for schooling. [/QUOTE]

BAHAHAHA You’ve pretty much described what my horse and I look like daily.

Figure 8 noseband? CHECK! (good for those tanking moments though, and I prefer how they avoid pressure on the facial nerves)

5 point breastplate? CHECK! (I find hunting style tips saddles forward and down. NOT something I need help with )

Running martingale attachment? CHECK! After last year’s smack to the face, I’m never without it

Fancy saddle? Passier Military with giant blocks. This thing is my beloved and lets me ride through dicey moments

Color coordinated? Ogilvy half pad and baby pad, natch I buy 2 identical baby pads to rotate in the wash. It keeps me from collecting saddle pads.

Gag? No, just a snaffle for all 3 phases right now.

We may be LL but my athletic giant mare has everything in place for a reason. Of course, the reason is usually a combination of her comfort and my safety Trendy training though? Nope, we are very very VERY old fashioned. Basics, careful development, minimal gadgets and buckets of patience.

Its going to be funny when I show up in dressage with the XC saddle but I don’t change anything about my setup if its working. (other than the running attachment of course)

[Feliz]

Thanks for that really detailed explanation, fordtracktor.

I’ve always used a RM for all my jumping (started in eventing, now predominantly SJing and hunting) and I knew that it would help with control as related to head throwing, but not in a really specific way like you’ve described.