Tad Coffin Saddles - Thoughts and ideas on my situation / help with saddle fit?

[raisethebar]

I have been going through it with my young hunter this year - I have done everything to make him comfortable and even in the middle of a month long doxy cycle for lyme treatment, some how his back is still sore. He is still in work, and some days we have amazing breakthroughs and other days I feel defeated.

About 10 months ago, I received what I thought was my forever saddle for him - 2017 custom made full buffalo CWD. I absolutely LOVE it. It is beyond comfortable. But as time went by, unfortunately we are thinking that he hates it. We just got done with 6 months worth of vet work and we know he has a problem area in his back as it is - so I thought as time went on and he was getting back into shape, there will be some sort of “normal” soreness, similar as to what we get when we start working out again as humans.

I’ve had the CWD rep out 2x already and she provided me with temporary shims that they use during fittings to see if I want to commit and have them re-panel the saddle. She keeps saying that it is fitting “textbook” in the front but does agree he could use a little bit more lift behind. But I feel like this horse is still telling me “no” in regards to this saddle. I have tried so many pads to help correct but they are either too thick (lami cell) and makes the front WAY too tight but provides protection against the back of the saddle (his problem area) digging in. I feel like I can’t win. I am not a saddle fit expert, I don’t claim to be, but I know the basics and It seems to me that it is low in the back, causing pressure points to dig into his problem areas. In the spring (when I had the rep out the first time), it was even rubbing off his back hairs where the back panels sit. Mind you, my horse is body clipped and I do pride myself on his care - he was always clean and with a clean saddle pad.

I have a friend who rides in the Blue Wing and LOVES it, as does her horses. I thought maybe I would look into a used TC to see if that could do the trick as there is no way that I can afford a Blue Wing. I heard horses love Tad Coffins. I’m at a point that I’m thinking about cutting my losses with CWD.

How small does TC run compared to CWD. I currently am in a 17" 2L and its perfect. I feel like the TC run super short/straight so I’m not sure how much larger in the seat I would go and if I would need a forward flap?

Anyone have any other thoughts or ideas? I’ve been working with my vet and they said after everything I’ve done for him, saddle fit should be number 1 to check out. After the month’s worth of doxy, I also was suggested to try a week or two of robaxin to see if it is muscle related and if i can rule that off my list ------ as long as my saddle fit is correct… thats the trick.

[Reminisce]

I had the same exact problem with my 2016 CWD Mademoiselle. It kills me as it is so beautiful. It seemed to work for him at first, but lately he has been going very inverted and has a sore back. I had CWD out and they provided shimming options to see if that would resolve the issue. If it did- they could repanel ($500 + 8 week wait.)

A friend just switched from her Tad to County. The Tad was giving her mare muscle spasms where the back of the saddle sits. She switched to County and has no problems! This inspired me to make the call to have County come out.

The difference in my horses stride and happiness has been unreal. He now willingly drops his head, lifts his back, and pushes with his hind end. His back palpates completely fine! I’m a true believer. The best thing about County vs CWD is that they are wool flocked so can be flocked and tweaked to fit your horse as often as needed!

[raisethebar]

@Reminisce - what were the symptoms of the muscle spasms. I feel like that could be exactly what is happening now. Were they constant or almost and off and on type of thing? It is so weird that with everything this horse has had to help him, its still sore. The ONLY thing constant is the saddle - it is beyond frustrating!

[Reminisce]

I never saw my friend’s horse’s spasms in person, but she said they were raised muscles where the back of the saddle would sit that would spasm after horse shows when she had to use a regular pad. was slightly better when able to be padded up.

[one1horse]

I think when CWD works for a horse they are lovely gorgeous saddles. When they don’t… CWD gets it really really wrong and they struggle to rectify the fit issues in a correct and long-lasting way.

Sounds to me like your horse is going to be better suited to wool flocking so I’d steer clear of a TC or any of the trendy French brands. Especially with a young horse… as his back changes as he grows/develops you may find yourself going through this process over and over.

[benmatt2c]

What kind of back does your horse have? High withered? flat backed? I do not have a TC, but have friends who have tried and/or bought them and liked them. Also, if you have an issue and contact TC on the website, Tad himself will write back. They have pretty phenomenal customer service and are very willing to work with you on getting a saddle that fits.

Additionally, an option might be a total saddle fit pad? My friend actually had an independent saddle fitter come out and make custom shims for her pad as her saddle was close, but not custom.

[raisethebar]

Thanks everyone. He is a pretty wide - large shouldered WB. I I heard from his moms Breeder that when she was showing, needed a really wide set and free shoulder saddle in orde to stay comfortable. I did pass this along to the rep but didn’t think they needed more out of the shoulder. I would be interested in having county out, but quite honestly I do not like the look of them at all.

[Saskatoonian]

Unfortunately - because I love them - not all horses love TCs. Mine flat out refused to canter in it. Smartride and all.

[PNWjumper]

I have had two horses go out on leases to people who used Tad Coffins on them and both horses came back sore and with ugly white hair patches on their backs. I can’t blame the saddles themselves as much as the riders for not using saddles that fit (though everyone involved in both cases, including trainers, swore the saddles were fine), but it still left an less-than-favorable impression of Tad Coffin saddles for me. IOW “all horses love them” has certainly not been what I’ve seen with friends through the years (maybe that’s different if TC himself gets involved in the fit?).

I have used Counties for a very long time. I have tried, repeatedly, to move to other brands thinking that I’m “in a rut” in the saddle world. Every time I try a new brand (and I’ve tried out quite a few in the last 4 or 5 years!), my horses object, even when the saddle fitters tell me the fit is perfect. The only exception to this is Voltaire, which my super picky TB seemed to like even more than his custom County. If I could afford to buy a new saddle right now that’s most likely what I would buy.

It seems to me that the shape and width of the channel is what my horses like in the Counties and Voltaires and when they object it’s because the channel of the offending saddle is narrower (at least that was the case with several of the bigger name brands like CWD) or shaped differently.

So I would suggest trying County (because they’ve always been my answer - though possibly because I have access to such a good saddle fitter), or Voltaire. But maybe even better would be getting a wither tracing done and using one of the people here who can make suggestions to you on what would fit your horse’s shape.

[raisethebar]

Thank you! I am planning to see what Voltaire says and go from there. I will not be able to afford a new one. I would be interested in buying something used from the rep and selling my saddle out right or maybe work a deal with them - although I’m sure I could get much more out of selling outright.

Very interested in looking into county more now. I guess my plan should be Voltaire, County, TC.

any other thoughts or ideas are great appreciated

[fordtraktor]

I have a Tad Cofffin TC2 and had a A5G before. I absolutely adore them and have never had a sore back, and I palpate backs every day. However, they do not fit every horse. No saddle can!

i have a large withered but petite TB and a round wide QH I use the TC2 on. I use an invictus pad under both, with shims for the TB. They are both super happy and I can tell a difference when I ride in my wool-stuffed dressage saddles…the TC is so free through the back. That sure is counterproductive! And the dressage saddles are wool flocked and fitted.

@PNWjumper that said, I can absolutely see where horse could come back with white hair. The A5G I had I absolutely loved myself, but it was way too wide for my Falcon horse. I have a Smith Worthington I had flocked for him while I had that saddle, before I found the TC2. The TC2 is wide but more forgiving of a wither and fits him great with the Invictus pad. The A5G tree is very wide and will sit on the wither on some horses no matter how you pad it. I am always careful to analyze the gullet all the way through with weight on the saddle. So many people look at a saddle unmounted and think they are good but how it works on the landing side of a jump is what matters. If there isn’t good clearance with a rider on it there definitely will be nothing under stress.

OP, If if you want to test, get a trial saddle from Tad. Their customer service is great when it comes to results but sometimes slow. CALL instead of email or the website thing! Much more responsive by phone though you may habe to try back a few times. I had a small issue with my saddle, which I bought used, and Tad replaced the tree for free with the latest Smartride model (it was a SmartRide), and the billets which I didn’t even complain about, as he saw they had wear. Meanwhile, my friends with French saddles can’t get anyone to replace obvious poor fit without paying a ton.

i absolutely love my saddle and have seen so many friends go down the custom French rabbit hole. And habe a friend doing the same with a County right now. It is so hit or miss depending on your fitter. It is a very versatile saddle. But it won’t fit everything…I still keep an older wool saddle or two so I can adjust for horses the TC doesn’t fit.

I am an 18 in basically everything and the 18 TC fits me. I am very tall and do have an extra forward and long flap, but my 36 inch inseams are…excessive. I think TCs are built for leggier riders. Ask Tad what you need.

if you use other saddles, I would try robaxin and then back X rays. Don’t use the poor fitting saddle any more. Nothing good can come from that.

[vxf111]

Unpopular view but I think if your horse is backsore you need to investigate the cause a little bit more fully. The saddle fit may only be part of what is going on.

And then think about a wool flocked saddle that has been fitted to your horse’s specific needs by a fitter with some training who is not just a sales rep. I realize that’s an unpopular opinion… but there you go.

Every single brand mentioned here- I have seen at least 1 rep who was atrocious at fitting. Every.single.one. If you have someone with no training other than on SALES… what do you expect? And with limited options to make something fit, you have limited choices anyway. Horse who need a really specific fit often just don’t do well in out of the box fancy french saddles. Other horses with more usual shapes do… but if you need an orthotic shoe, you don’t buy Jimmy Choo heels from someone getting a commission, you know? You go to the person trained in podiatry and you get something tailored to your specific foot and your pain.

You might also have to compromise on what you think is aesthetically pleasing. But I think a sound horse in a plain saddle is probably better than a lame horse in a pretty one.

[fourfillies]

I had TC recommended as an off the rack good fit for my younger WB. I have the off the rack SR version. Horse loves it. Took me a few months but I now prefer it to my Antares. From my prior posts you’ll see I’m no CWD fan. Their saddles are always “perfect”. Regardless of what the horse or rider may think. Just ask the rep.

[GoneAway]

I am definitely of the opinion that TC saddles aren’t for every horse. Not by a long shot. And if you want a comfortable ride, I personally found them to be the most uncomfortable saddles I ever sat in.

Long story short, a TC saddle made my horse extremely sore the one time he was ridden in it. I had my horse in an old school CWD that fit well and the horse legitimately was very sound and comfortable in. Tad came out to do an all-day clinic, talked up his saddles for a couple hours, and then went through a handful of horses in his saddles demonstrating how much better they all went. I was enthusiastic about TC saddles and I thought maybe they could be an improvement, I was willing to consider anything that might help my boy. Tad hopped directly on in his saddle, didn’t see my horse go in the CWD, and just automatically declared what a huge improvement the horse was feeling in the TC saddle (again…without seeing or knowing how the horse went in the CWD, no control comparison). My horse schooled regularly long/low and knew how to properly stretch down/out and over his back, so when he started to do it the crowd gasped in approval, thinking it was the saddle, but I was standing there saying how he did that in the CWD everyday and was dismissed.

I wasn’t impressed by the sales pitch, left a sour taste in my mouth. It got even more sour the following day when I came out to ride and my horse was incredibly back sore to the touch. True…could have been the 35+ minute schooling session under a dual Olympic gold medalist, or the saddle could have contributed. Five days off and back in the CWD, he was fine. Go figure. So…suffice to say I just stuck with my old CWD with him.

I have an enormous amount of respect for Tad as a horseman and rider, the man is super talented. I do believe the saddles help some horses, but they will never be for every horse. My barn was small and everyone else rode exclusively in TCs, so every time I had to school one of the horses in training, it was in a TC. One was just uncomfortable (but tolerable, like sitting on a saw horse), and the other straight up wounded me. I have sat in a lot of saddles, some expensive, some very cheap, and some that didn’t fit me at all, but never had one injure me. I remember the dressage saddles being much better than the close contacts I had to use.

My new horse doesn’t like my old CWD so I will likely be looking at Voltaire or County next year when I get back to the States (the trainer he’s with schools him in a Voltaire with no issues), or find an independent fitter. I won’t be pursuing a new CWD with the stories I’ve heard of current CWD models and related issues. Best of luck in your search.

[TatteredDaydreamer]

For what it’s worth, I have a Palm Beach Voltaire that I just adore. It fits most horses that I’ve ridden, with shimming/padding on the ones that need it. It’s never made anyone back sore, and I do check every ride. It’s also got THE best balance of any saddle I’ve ever sat in. Would highly recommend you look into them.

[ElementFarm]

Some horses just don’t like saddles that “technically” fit perfectly.

I also have a big withered, huge-shouldered WB gelding. I had a terrible time finding saddles he approved of. In an Antares he refused to canter to the right. In a PJ, he went very short all over. I tried several brands and honestly the one he went best in for a long time was my old TC. I was reluctant to use it on him, as there was zero wither clearance. But despite the fact it seemed to be crushing his withers, he consistently went better in that than any of the trial and friends’ saddles I tried.
I finally had a CWD rep out to order a custom saddle. She watched him go in the Tad to see his baseline performance. Then she measured him and had 2-3 appropriate demo saddles to try. One fit him “technically” perfectly, but he only seemed tolerant of it. About the same as the TC. Another one she had wasn’t as text-book perfect, but he clearly loved it. He went better in it than anything else I’d tried. The propanels gave him the shoulder freedom he needed and it was balanced well front-to-back for him, which is hard to find for big-withered WBs. It’s been his saddle ever since, and while CWDs aren’t my most favorite saddles ever (I love my Voltaire best, but still happily use the TC on the horses that it fits, and they seem to like it), I’m still very pleased with it, and definitely credit it for helping my boy perform his best.

I will say though, that it might be worth investigating some other causes beyond saddle fit. More than one horse has been a little sore backed where the saddle goes, and subsequent rads show mild kissing spines, arthritis, or other remodeling under/near the saddle. A set of xrays might be worth investing in, before you spend a lot of time and money chasing down different tack.

[vxf111]

I will say that it became much harder to accept the whole “buy a French saddle out of a box and presto model” after a session where Tad Coffin told me HIMSELF that one tree size fits EVERY horse. Notwithstanding the ridiculousness in the attached photo (where the tree was clearly too narrow and pinching his withers, causing it to slope downward and sit several inches lower at the cantle than the pommel)… I found it hard to have much faith in the company’s fitting capabilities. Even though apparently now even TC has changed his mind about whether all horses can fit one tree size (I mean, really, that’s like saying any woman on earth can wear a size 8 shoe, how did anyone ever get away shilling that line without choking?) How can you take with a straight face someone’s fitting skills who tells you every horse can do a medium tree? Period. Full endstop. The logic in this?

Throwing “clinics” to sell saddles? He’s a good salesman, that’s for sure. But what actual training has he had in saddle fit, biomechanics, assessing back pain, etc.? I don’t think any. This is like a drug rep throwing a clinic to get you hooked on pills. Who do you trust about what medicine you should take, someone who went to medical school or someone who gets a bonus for selling you pills?

I mean… if you want evidence why a lot of saddle companies are all about sales and not about fit, there’s your sign. This guy went around for decades saying every woman wears the same size shoe. Do you want him treating your plantar faciitis or a podiatrist that gets no kickback from what brand orthodic you end up using?

[staceymc]

I think if they work for you and your horse, Tad’s saddles are great. I rode in one for years, though now whenever I ride in one I despise it and its insistence on getting too up close and personal to my nether regions. LOL.

Regardless, they do not fit every horse nor work for every person. That’s just insanity and the fact that Tad still trots out that line makes me roll my eyes so hard I’m afraid they’ll stick. I ended up with a CWD for my horse because it fit him like a glove, whereas the TC was such a bad fit it was almost comical. It bridged terribly, dug in oddly at the shoulder, etc. There was no amount of padding or voodoo magic that was going to make that sucker fit. No way, no how.

My advice, borrow every brand of saddle you can find and put it on your horse. See what general saddle tree brand fits his shape the best and go from there. And yes, some horses do NOT care what supposedly fits them - they like what they like. So even if you find the “perfect fit” listen to your horse. After all, he’s the one that has to work in it.

[pattnic]

@raisethebar

I have been going through it with my young hunter this year - I have done everything to make him comfortable and even in the middle of a month long doxy cycle for lyme treatment, some how his back is still sore. He is still in work, and some days we have amazing breakthroughs and other days I feel defeated.

About 10 months ago, I received what I thought was my forever saddle for him - 2017 custom made full buffalo CWD. I absolutely LOVE it. It is beyond comfortable. But as time went by, unfortunately we are thinking that he hates it. We just got done with 6 months worth of vet work and we know he has a problem area in his back as it is - so I thought as time went on and he was getting back into shape, there will be some sort of “normal” soreness, similar as to what we get when we start working out again as humans.

I’ve had the CWD rep out 2x already and she provided me with temporary shims that they use during fittings to see if I want to commit and have them re-panel the saddle. She keeps saying that it is fitting “textbook” in the front but does agree he could use a little bit more lift behind. But I feel like this horse is still telling me “no” in regards to this saddle. I have tried so many pads to help correct but they are either too thick (lami cell) and makes the front WAY too tight but provides protection against the back of the saddle (his problem area) digging in. I feel like I can’t win. I am not a saddle fit expert, I don’t claim to be, but I know the basics and It seems to me that it is low in the back, causing pressure points to dig into his problem areas. In the spring (when I had the rep out the first time), it was even rubbing off his back hairs where the back panels sit. Mind you, my horse is body clipped and I do pride myself on his care - he was always clean and with a clean saddle pad.

Considering the parts I’ve bolded and the information you have regarding this horse’s dam needing something wide make me very suspicious that your current CWD is too narrow.

@raisethebar

I have a friend who rides in the Blue Wing and LOVES it, as does her horses. I thought maybe I would look into a used TC to see if that could do the trick as there is no way that I can afford a Blue Wing. I heard horses love Tad Coffins. I’m at a point that I’m thinking about cutting my losses with CWD.

How small does TC run compared to CWD. I currently am in a 17" 2L and its perfect. I feel like the TC run super short/straight so I’m not sure how much larger in the seat I would go and if I would need a forward flap?

No saddle will work for every horse to be sure, but you won’t know until you try. Last I knew, Tads tended to be a bit flatter front-to-back. I personally feel that Tads run about 1/2" smaller in the seat than other brands, i.e., a 17" fits/rides like a 16.5". This is with the disclaimer that I’ve not tried newer versions. I ride in 3C flap in CWD and the standard TC flap was too straight for me.

As far as County goes, you might prefer the bull leather option.

You might also consider Amerigo/Vega. If these work for your horse, you might prefer these over County. You won’t like the standard leather, but the upgraded “special” or “Pinerolo” leather is nice.

[raisethebar]

Hi Everyone!!!

I just wanted to update and say thank you to everyone who gave me LOTS of great feedback.

@ElementFarm @fordtraktor I just wanted to let you know that I do have current xrays of my horses back - this is why I need to get my horse’s saddle perfect TO HIS LIKING. He does have some remodeling in his back going on and we have worked with Dr. Kent Allen at VEI to make sure we are doing everything and anything to fix/help create future issues. We have a pretty solid plan of attack keeping him comfortable and it was working SO well throughout the whole time I’ve been working with VEI until about 6 weeks after his injections.

We were cleared to start jumping and started working up to actual “jumps”… After our 2nd real time jumping ~6 baby jumps, he got off the next day and got some routine shots. The next day I pulled him out and bam, his back was sore.

I called my vet immediately, No way a little over a month after injections his back should be sore. She brought up saddle fit and I had the CWD rep out. I bright up his lyme titer and we agreed to have it pulled again. Once we got it back, we decided since it still was still Equivocal, to go the doxy route since he was showing other lyme symptoms… and here we are.

All of this is getting me really thinking about my saddle fit. It makes sense that he can come out a little muscle sore from getting back in shape, but I truly think he is not comfortable in my CWD and causing the problems to honestly never go away/heal. I rub him down with Bigeoil and give him liniment baths almost every day I ride and that seems to be helping! I do have a BOT mesh sheet I will be adding back again to the routine when it starts getting cooler as well.

ALSO -

I rode in a friends Voltaire just last night. It was custom made for a horse in my barn that had a hard time with his back as well. The rep actually had the main guy come out because he told my friend, “I’ve done as much as I know how and I do not understand what isn’t right for him, so I’m calling the main guy out”. They really earned my friend’s loyalty to the brand and custom made the saddle with different (SOFTER?) foam!? Has anyone heard of that? I asked my CWD rep and they do not have that option at all and she never heard of that. Very odd.

Anyway, it was definitely tighter through the shoulders but it sat very level on him. And even better - my horse LOVED it. Nose to the ground, back up and lifted. Perfect lead changes, and he was SO extremely quiet. His way to telling me “ow” is spooking. And yet here he was, cantering with his nose to the ground and his mom riding in disbelief. That feeling where there horse lifts up his back, and you feel 4" closer to god (in a good way)… yeah that one is the one I got.

I just invested a TON of money in CWD and it has to be one of the biggest disappointments to not have my horse like it, nor the brand currently. I am so confused if I should cut my losses and move on to something used that I know he already likes, or make CWD make it right - what if they can never get it right?