But now they have MAGIC JUJU IN THEM! Have you considered them since to redesign to add the MAGIC JUJU?
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Sounds like you could definitely benefit from having an independent saddle fitter out who is familiar with a bunch of brands and can recommend what has a good chance of working for your horse. If you have a horse that is sensitive to saddle fit like it sounds like yours is, the panels will make a huge difference to your horse. Different companies have different philosophies on panel shape and size, including the width of the channel, the angle of the panel at the back, gussets or no gussets, etc. If you post your general location, people might be able to recommend an truly independent fitter. Not sure if this has been suggested yet, but you may also want to check out the Saddle Geekâs website â you can learn a lot from it.
Wishing you luck!
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It doesnât seem like OP really wants advice if itâs going to be in the vein of âget an independent saddle fitter out, consider wool.â She seems dead set on buying a trendy French saddle notwithstanding her horseâs apparent pathology. I feel like itâs a little on deaf ears, all this advice. She only want affirmation that a Tad or a Voltaire are the way to go. 
OP, in case you are listening, the issue with the Voltaires sometimes is how inset the stirrup bar is. You canât tell that from flipping over and looking at the channel. You have to put the saddle on the horse and slip your hand in under the stirrup bar. This design is really bad for some horseâs backs. The tree will look like the right size under the pommel, and the channel is nice and wide-- but then under the stirrup bar it narrows and all the pressure sits there because its the narrowest part. Of course I highly doubt Voltaireâs rep is going to point this out-- but that narrow twist that YOU might like the feel of? It means the tree dips in right under the stirrup bars.
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Fyi just because a saddle is âtrendyâ doesnât necessarily mean it isnât a good fit for her and her horse⊠and not everyone has knowledgeable independent saddle reps in their area. âWoolâ and âindependent repâ are not just magic fixes like some people act like they are on this board. It gets a little old sometimes. Sure, give advice, but no need to rant yp and down about how awful trendy saddles are and how foam is from the devil. 
Obviously, I say this in jest and light-heartedly, not picking a fight.
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I donât think TC is trendy. A certain subset of us like them but we tend to be people who rode in PDNs growing up. They are not cushy. I donât have an Inverness problem in them but I ride short so maybe that helps. I have very long legs and am kind of built like a boy.
I have always wanted a County but no reliable fitters near. A COTH member I know is having a nightmare with her poorly fitting County right now. It depends so much on the fitter and needs to be checked regularly.
i like wool saddles too, all my other saddles are wool. There isnât one answer. I have ridden in a Palm Beach and a CWD I also liked. The Palm Beach fit my
horse terribly. Another CWD felt awful. Saddle fitting is like finding the right person to marry. Something that seems to check all the right boxes on paper can turn out to be all wrong for you or the horse.
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I donât have a problem with foam when it fits. I wish my ancient prix des nations fit everything, and it did fit a lot, but not everything. And then someone stole it, because great saddle.
I have a problem with tad coffin saddles though. For myriad reasons. I did not feel at all like any model of tad coffin i rode in felt like my prix des nations that I rode in for over 20 years. But @fordtraktor yours does seem to be the build that likes them, and it is 100% whom tc designed his saddles for.
And independent saddle fitters are just like any other saddle fitter, some of them are really bad at their job. Some are super but Iâve known plenty who had limited training and others still with plenty of training and a knack for making your horse sore behind.
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I really wanted to love my TC A5G2. I adored my PdN knockoff. I like a flat seat, I should like the TC, right? Nope. I hated it. Turns out my horse preferred it to my other option, which was a Bruno Delgrange, so I rode in the TC. Then I found a barely used PJ Delgrange that horse liked just fine and I sold the TC in a heartbeat.
Truthfully, both of my Delgranges are the âsameâ saddle (a PJ Lite and a BD Athena) and look VERY similar. I can tell the difference riding in them, thoughâŠand horse can certainly tell the difference. She gets very unhappy in the Bruno. And heck, I tried to by her a Thinline correction half pad with the shims and everything to replace her old Mattes. OMG, you would have thought I had lined the pad with burs. She was so hunched up and ready to dump me⊠So much for $200+ presents for the picky mare. You can keep your old, grungy Mattes pad, then. :lol:
So, this statement rings absolutely true with me:
Saddle fit is very personal for both horse and rider. Some horses will tolerate a wide ranges of fits. There are pluses and minuses to both foam and wool. ITâs important to know what those are and to make educated choicesâŠespecially when you have a sea of reps telling you what they hawk is the best.
If OPâs horse seemed to like the VoltaireâŠwho are we to argue? Sheâs the one riding him, feeling the difference. If sheâs found something that seems like it will work, we should be happy for her.
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I also have no issues with foam saddles if they fit or trendy saddles if they fit. They work for lots of horses. Thatâs not what this thread is about. This thread was started by an OP whose horse has diagnosed back pathology and remodelling and the vet is even telling her itâs likely that saddle fit is an issue and she doesnât seem to want to even HEAR about getting someone TRAINED in saddle fit to be involved in the process. This is not your average Jane rider and average Joe horse that could likely do with something off the shelf. This is the vet telling her the saddle is causing pain and she doesnât seem even remotely interested in getting someone involved who might actually know something about saddle fit. Because I can all but guarantee that there is no rep, for these companies or any other, who has independent, thorough training on anything other than SALES.
When OP wanted a Tad, she only replied to people discussing Tads on this thread. Now she wants a Voltaire and sheâs only reply to posters who are posting about a Voltaire. That suggests to me that she really just wants validation for the saddle sheâs set on, which is fine but means trying to explain why other options might make morse sense is a bit of a waste.
If nothing else, this thread has been highly entertaining and proof that PT Barnum (or whoever REALLY said the quote) was 100% right. Now Tad Coffin saddles literally change the molecular makeup of your horse. That is some NOBEL PRIZE WINNING TECHNOLOGY RIGHT THERE! I mean, seriously. That has to take cake of one of the most absurd claims that has ever been posted on COTH in the history of COTH. That is NEXT LEVEL KOOL AID!!!
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Um, thatâs a little harsh, donât you think? The horse goes better in the Voltaire. Why blame her for pursuing that when itâs what all of us would do?
Saddle fit is unique to every horse, and sometimes horses like unconventional things. When you look at the fit of my mareâs Antares (a "trendy French brand :eek:) it should need a little thicker pad in the shoulder area. But if I shim that to the âproper fit,â she doesnât like it nearly as much, and the difference is huge.
@raisethebar I rode in TCs in Florida and both my friend and I were in agony. Raw seatbones, bruised nether regions, stinging, bleedingâŠthey were brutal and, both of us being very different builds, concluded they were âman saddles.â So I donât like them for that reason! But I know plenty of females who do!
It sounds like he likes the Voltaire better than the CWD for sure, but see if you can borrow or try another saddle or two to compare. With as sucky as a process of saddle shopping is, if you can try three or four and then pick his and your favorite, you may have a better shot of a longer-term fit. There IS truth in the fact that sometimes something that fits different will be better than something that fits badly, and there could be a better fit than the Voltaire that makes him go even better!
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Because the horse âgoing betterâ in a saddle after a couple rides following being ridden in a saddle that hurts does not mean that the saddle FITS. Again, back to the analogy of switching to too small sneakers after walking around in heels. If I made you run for 5 minutes in heels and then had you put on a size too small sneakers, I bet youâd go better. It might feel okay for a lap or two. But if I made you run for 5 minutes in them, your feet would start hurting in different places.
Just riding in a saddle a few times isnât necessarily the best indicator of whether it fits. Especially with this particular brand (Voltaire) and the inset stirrup bar. I wonder where her horseâs remodeling is? Could be under where that pressure point is. Wouldnât she want to know that? Itâs true that horses sometimes like âunconventional fits,â but this is not your average horse. This is a horse with a veterinary issue. This is a horse who has physical changes. This is a horse who probably deserves some closer scrutiny by someone who actually knows what theyâre doing and not someone looking through dollar sign shaped glasses.
The only point I am trying to make is that she should involve someone in the process who KNOWS WHAT THEYâRE DOING and who is not on commission. In any other scenario that would be a totally innocuous suggestion. Only in the world of saddles is it considered crazytown to suggest consulting someone with a clue when you need help!
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Hah! I missed this whole part of the TC conversation. Not sure how I ended up on page 3 without all the proceeding talk.
I never had nether region pain in my TCâŠa little butt pain if I was in it for hours on end, but that should be expected, I think.
I DID have significant girl part pain when trying the Bruno Delgranges. The rep only had half deep and deep on the trailer and both were like torture. Man, it was brutal. I never did get to try the flat seatâŠand had to trust that the pommel would not assault me every ride. I was wooâed with talk of a âfemale pommelâ option, but never needed to go there. The only time my PJ Lite hurt was at a show when I was using a new Mattes correction pad. It sat slightly differently and it was not good. I finally mentioned something and my trainer was like 'OMG, me too!â She thought it was just her and she was just going to suffer in silence. Eek!
Woah this has spun out of control with some peopleâs comments attacking the âOPâ, aka me.
In any attempt to get back on trackâŠ
@vxf111 I am a young working non-horse professional who only has had time to respond on a limited bases, so yes, I have picked and choose what to respond to at this time, but have been very grateful for all of the responses and help I have received up to here.
I HAVE⊠I repeat⊠I HAVE spoke with a couple of people about finding an independent saddle fitter out and currently have a name and contact information to speak to. I am newer (within a year and a half) to the area and have never used an independent saddle fitter before. Itâs definitely harder to find a good independent saddle fitter in your area than finding your CWD or Voltaire rep. Instead of assuming I havenât listened - you could have asked where I reside and maybe tried to offer a contact instead. In case you were wondering, I am in MD.
Thank you for your comment about the stirrup bar. I will make sure I take a look at it and feel where it is in my fitting I do not want to create a whole other issue for my horse.
I actually DO ALREADY know where his exact issues are - I have invested A LOT of time, money, and energy in getting this horse perfect again and I have been the only one involved in this (no trainers, etc) and he has come leaps and bounds ahead of where he was, I feel like we are just putting finishing touches on him with getting saddle fit right.
My vet suggested to make sure my saddle fit was perfect, yes. Did he say originally my saddle was the source of pain? No. My horse has a diagnosis that we worked through to fix and keep up with as needed. Did they say that in his current state of mild reaction to palpation could be due to him being uncomfortable from saddle fit? Yes. Does he know for sure if itâs from my saddle or from his diagnosed issues? No. Thatâs why I am looking into all my options - again, including wool.
I was recommended to look to TC per my horses build and way of going by obviously someone who thought TC was the answer for their horses and potentially mine and I wanted to look further into it. I also only have limited access to other saddle brands in my barn to try â one obviously being Voltaire!! That being the exact reason I am looking into them more because I have felt an immediate difference in my horse. I am NOT saying that Voltaire is the answer for my horse! I am just having the rep out to see how heâd fit him, see what he thinks is wrong with my current saddle and go from there.
The only oher saddles in my barn are County eventing saddles that are made for horses completely opposite built than mine and a ton of dressage saddles for again, opposite built horses. The owner of the Voltaireâs have WB some what similar built that both do the hunters as well.
As for everyone else - thank you a ton for responding with ideas! For those of you who know me, I am 150% committed into getting this horse right no matter what it takes. I truly feel he is 90% there at this point and getting this right would be the icing on the cake. Hopefully will have some updates by Wednesday or Thursday and Iâm hoping for some sort of idea or more direction.
Thanks again!
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Gina Perilla
Suzie Coffey
Bill Wood
Annette Gavin (maybe, depends on location in MD)
just off off the top of my head. If thatâs what you actually wanted (the names of fitters who will go to MD) all you had to do was say so. Iâm sure there are others people in MD can recommend in addition
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Hi OP, your horse and mine have similar build. If the CWD needs more lift in the back, I donât think the TC is going to work. Less customization available with the panels, and it is just not balanced for our type of WB build. I thought though that the tree shape would be good for my horse, so I did a demo of the Blue Wing. He hated it! Pokey walk was all I could get. In comparison, he thought the Palm Beach was ok and loved the Stuttgart, until he really started lifting his back at which point the Stuttgart would bounce in the back. It fit the best when he was in a more braced posture. But of course thatâs not how he should go. So, I stuck with my 2Gs ad have gotten the panels redone a couple of times.
If I lived where you are, Iâd consider doing a demo of a TC. I did talk to Tad on the phone at one point when I was shopping. Or if you have a local Voltaire rep, sit in a Blue Wing first. I was pretty surprised (and also thankful because of price) that my horse hated the saddle. One thing I like better about Voltaire and CWD is their more modern fuller clearance. You can also get this from some other brands. TCs are still built a little more old school so the panels may not sit on the back where you need them to with your horseâs issues. That was also a concern of mine.
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Thank you @IPEsq for your input! I know you have had the struggles with saddle fitting your guys as well, so its appreciated as always.
I can now see what you are all saying about the TC. It might work, but the only way I can find out is to try. The girl in my barn has a Blue Wing and I sat it on my horse last night actually and girthed it up. I have not ridden in it but my plan is to demo it when the rep comes out tomorrow. I CANNOT afford it, so I wonât even dream of it, but I love the idae behind it and I want to see how he feels for comparison.
I do love the clearance of the Voltaires. It is extremely different than my CWD and is what I am thinking my horse is really loving. I also am wondering if there is actually something wrongwith my CWD. I noticed last night when evaluating different saddles on him: I was assessing the panel spacing underneath the saddle - approximately 4ish fingers across - the Voltaire is certainly much wider. If you run your hand from front to back on my CWD, there is a point where it almost narrowsâŠUhm, what. I did it to a friends same model and year CWD but different panel config and hers does NOT do that. So weird? I never noticed any of these things before.
@vxf111 Suzie Coffey is the name that I was suggested and apparently she will hopefully be out soon for a friends County (the eventing one). I am hoping that she will be able to see me as well.
Amen!
I also think this bears repeating a million times:
I know a lot of people that buy the first saddle their horse shows an improvement in; and I want to point out that there isnât really any way to know for sure if the horse truly agrees with the saddle, without riding them in it⊠for a while. BTDT, had a horse whose body put his foot down hard on a saddle that fit perfectly on paper. To the point where this like-a-glove-fit was causing remodeling in his shoulder, and SI. Ended up with a saddle that didnât fit him on paper, and was a bit unconventional (a bit too wide, upswept + dropped panels), but the key thing was that it was somehow comfortable to him day in, day out for years with only minor reflocking needed.
Just a spin around the ring W/T/C in this new saddle wonât tell you anything about how it will affect the horse in the future; many times, saddles put pressure in different areas, and people searching for âthe right saddleâ tend to have a horse that is sore in a specific spot - when they try different saddles, those saddles may not put pressure across the same sore area so may not elicit the same response in the horse.
It can also take months for residual trauma from a badly fitted saddle to go away; so itâs also worth remembering that you wont always see a night/day difference in a horsesâ way of going when you find The One.
The more I work with horses, and the more I have gone down my own special hell that has been finding saddle[s] that fit my horse[s], especially with my monster-TB, the more I think that the super custom, like a glove fits are not at all comfortable to many horses⊠and often that what fits on paper isnât ideal in movement.
More and more I am seeing horses perform happily and comfortably in outside-the-box saddle fittings⊠which makes me wonder if a majority of what we as consumers understand about saddle fit and it needing to fit on paper is just well-designed snake oil. Certainly my experience has given me a very unhealthy skepticism of nearly all proclaimed saddle-fitters, because I have met plenty of rubes and scammers that said they were fitters, happily took my thousands of dollars, and left me with a sore and miserable horse. And vet bills. Oh, and ghosted when I messaged them asking for alternatives because I didnât think their suggestions were working. Or ghosted when I said I wasnât going custom. The list goes ever on.
Of of my soap-box now. Sorry for the tangent OP.
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âAssaulted by the pommelâ LMAO! Thatâs how the TCs were for me. Iâve never experienced it before in any other brand. My friend and I were there for a short term working student thing and we literally almost went home early we were hurting so bad! We rode in two-point a LOT!
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I use Annette Gavin and she travels all over MD and VA. I did buy a Black Country through Annette but she has also worked on my old wool Prestige and my County. I highly recommend her.
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I use her too (though the last few times someone else from her company came and I was just as happy with those people-- I think these days she might be taking more of the local calls and sending other people farther afield? But theyâre all quite good.) She will not blow smoke up your ass!
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Thank you everyone! I have some phone calls to be made 
