Tad Coffin Saddles - Thoughts and ideas on my situation / help with saddle fit?

[IPEsq]

With County, clearance totally depends on how its flocked and which tree fits. I thought my CWD (the 2Gs) had the same clearance as the Voltaire.

I would not buy the extra squishy foam without test riding first if possible. That is actually what my horse hated about the Blue Wing the most, I think. What started out as nice wither and spine clearance went squish as soon as I sat down, and while there was still clearance, there wasn’t enough for his liking. It basically squished right on down to where the regular foam was and so the fit was only as good as how the regular foam was placed. So, if it’s added just for shock absorption on top of the regular foam, well, I don’t buy that. I’d rather use a thinline or something.

Perhaps I’d use it for that area that tends to bridge when you’ve got a big shouldered horse who needs some lift in the very back but not a lot of foam in the middle to front … but be careful of the salesmanship on this foam if they can’t find you a demo with that configuration. Perhaps they can…my local Voltaire rep flew me out a saddle that was built up with more clearance for me to try because my horse doesn’t tolerate shims, so we had to try to experiment as closely to what would actually be built. Had to do the same with CWD but they had more demos locally.

[vxf111]

@IPEsq

With County, clearance totally depends on how its flocked and which tree fits. I thought my CWD (the 2Gs) had the same clearance as the Voltaire.

I would not buy the extra squishy foam without test riding first if possible. That is actually what my horse hated about the Blue Wing the most, I think. What started out as nice wither and spine clearance went squish as soon as I sat down, and while there was still clearance, there wasn’t enough for his liking. It basically squished right on down to where the regular foam was and so the fit was only as good as how the regular foam was placed. So, if it’s added just for shock absorption on top of the regular foam, well, I don’t buy that. I’d rather use a thinline or something.

Perhaps I’d use it for that area that tends to bridge when you’ve got a big shouldered horse who needs some lift in the very back but not a lot of foam in the middle to front … but be careful of the salesmanship on this foam if they can’t find you a demo with that configuration. Perhaps they can…my local Voltaire rep flew me out a saddle that was built up with more clearance for me to try because my horse doesn’t tolerate shims, so we had to try to experiment as closely to what would actually be built. Had to do the same with CWD but they had more demos locally.

This is also my concern. I would not buy in something unless I had ridden in a demo with exactly, I mean EXACTLY those specifications. Nor would I have total confidence they could even replicate the demo. Plenty of horror stories about.

[raisethebar]

@vxf111 I really wish everything was that easy with horses - I absolutely did not say that. For the sake of continuing to get good responses on this thread, understand that though I am on here to get help and idea share, I am not going to explain every.single.detail to the internet that I do not personally think is relevant.

I SAID:
“They really earned my friend’s loyalty to the brand and custom made the saddle with different (SOFTER?) foam!?”

WHAT HAPPENED:
They re-did her panels completely - they custom made it… again…with different foam added to the back…and a different panel configuration.

She called the rep out and the conversation was along the lines of the following — “Well, I’m confused. I fit this horse to the best of my abilities and he should love this - let’s get the head guy out so him and I can cross ideas and we will fix this no matter what” and they found a solution and a perfect fit. I am happy to report that horse never had any back issues from there on. WAVES MAGIC WAND --> eyes roll, totally just kidding.

To my knowledge, the point of the foam is that some horses like a half pad and some don’t care. This eliminates the need for “more things” added to the mix and eliminates the need for a half pad/thinline.

[raisethebar]

@IPEsq

With County, clearance totally depends on how its flocked and which tree fits. I thought my CWD (the 2Gs) had the same clearance as the Voltaire.

I would not buy the extra squishy foam without test riding first if possible. That is actually what my horse hated about the Blue Wing the most, I think. What started out as nice wither and spine clearance went squish as soon as I sat down, and while there was still clearance, there wasn’t enough for his liking. It basically squished right on down to where the regular foam was and so the fit was only as good as how the regular foam was placed. So, if it’s added just for shock absorption on top of the regular foam, well, I don’t buy that. I’d rather use a thinline or something.

Perhaps I’d use it for that area that tends to bridge when you’ve got a big shouldered horse who needs some lift in the very back but not a lot of foam in the middle to front … but be careful of the salesmanship on this foam if they can’t find you a demo with that configuration. Perhaps they can…my local Voltaire rep flew me out a saddle that was built up with more clearance for me to try because my horse doesn’t tolerate shims, so we had to try to experiment as closely to what would actually be built. Had to do the same with CWD but they had more demos locally.

Thanks @IPEsq - The foam would be only added to the back of the panel where he gets protective over his back and where his issues are. I actually have ridden in it and my horse loved it. I didn’t feel a difference but I feel like my horse does. I certainly will talk to the rep again about making sure we regain clearance as that seems to be the entire reason my horse loves Voltaire.

[vxf111]

I hope the Voltaire is all you could possibly hope for. Good luck. Since you seem to have what you needed/wanted, I’m bowing out.

[raisethebar]

@vxf111 that’s fine. I feel like we are on our way to a great solution.

I am very grateful for all the input, despite difference of opinions, and glad I can find something that works!

[LookmaNohands]

@vxf111

(emphasis mine)

Please post a shred, a shred, of scientific evidence to support this assertion. I BEG YOU!

He is working on more evidence: https://thera-tree.com/pages/theratree-product-description-page

[vxf111]

@LookmaNohands

He is working on more evidence: https://thera-tree.com/pages/theratr…scription-page

That’s neither the saddle (which is what we were discussing) nor scientific evidence? It’s more advertising doublespeak. Can you really not distinguish those two things? It really genuinely makes me sad if you can’t tell the difference.

[LookmaNohands]

The trees of his saddles are made out of the exact same material as the Thera-Tree. Based on the results I am seeing, It definitely has a relaxing effect on the horses. I just got one and I hope it has a healing effect too. I will continue using it with my own horses and those I am working with.

vxf111 I am sorry you are sad.

[vxf111]

@LookmaNohands

The trees of his saddles are made out of the exact same material as the Thera-Tree. Based on the results I am seeing, It definitely has a relaxing effect on the horses. I just got one and I hope it has a healing effect too. I will continue using it with my own horses and those I am working with.

vxf111 I am sorry you are sad.

I am sorry you’re gullible

[2bayboys]

@LookmaNohands

He is working on more evidence: https://thera-tree.com/pages/theratr…scription-page

I actually quite like TC saddles, but this blurb, taken from your link, is laughable. There’s a technical term for this kind of language: gobbledygook.

“A combination of materials, and the processes used in fabrication, as well as the geometry of the Thera-Tree® create a piezoelectric effect. The charge generated in the Thera-Tree® has been proven and measured with a Tektronix oscilloscope in the 40-60 mv range. One of the materials used is carbon fiber. Another is an acrylic alloy, which on its own demonstrates a quality called capacitance, meaning it has an ability to store voltage.”

gob·ble·dy·gook
ˈɡäbəldēˌɡo͞ok/
noun
INFORMAL [LIST=1]

language that is meaningless or is made unintelligible by excessive use of abstruse technical terms; nonsense. [/LIST]

[ladyj79]

@vxf111

I am sorry you’re gullible

:lol::lol::lol::encouragement:

[ToTheNines]

Would ya lay off the TC saddles please? They are great saddles. I love mine and so do my horses.

The piezoelectric effect of certain materials is very real. It is in application all around us, with various everyday and not so everyday items. A cigarette lighter uses it. An electrical response to applied mechanical stress. If you don’t think an electrical response has any merit in a saddle tree, fine, but don’t call the science behind it gooblegook.

[2bayboys]

@ToTheNines

Would ya lay off the TC saddles please? They are great saddles. I love mine and so do my horses.

The piezoelectric effect of certain materials is very real. It is in application all around us, with various everyday and not so everyday items. A cigarette lighter uses it. An electrical response to applied mechanical stress. If you don’t think an electrical response has any merit in a saddle tree, fine, but don’t call the science behind it gooblegook.

I never said the science was nonsense, I said the language used in the sales pitch is. Big difference.

And to say that some alloy used in the tree “demonstrates a quality called capacitance” is meaningless on its own. So does aluminum. But wearing a tin foil hat does nothing to alleviate my aches and pains (or digestive issues, which is something the magic tree is also supposed to fix according to the website).

[vxf111]

@2bayboys

I never said the science was nonsense, I said the language used in the sales pitch is. Big difference.

And to say that some alloy used in the tree “demonstrates a quality called capacitance” is meaningless on its own. So does aluminum. But wearing a tin foil hat does nothing to alleviate my aches and pains.

Exactly. It’s not about whether the piezoelectric effect exists in the abstract. It’s about whether the SADDLE (or that weird pad thing) has any proven therapeutic effects on horses. Two entirely different things. I’m not quibbling generally with the concept. But all the ad speak on the page lookma linked to is straight NONSENSE

[vxf111]

@LookmaNohands can I ask you a couple sincere questions? That you’ll answer honestly?

Do you get a kickback/remuneration of any sort (money or products or discounts) for recommending TC saddles?
Do you have any personal relationship to TC or the brand or affiliated companies?
Do you have any scientific background?

[akhunterrider]

I got a used Tad on trial directly from Tad Coffin last November. My horse and I LOVED it. Sadly, it was well outside of our price range, so it had to go back to Tad. Honestly my horse has never moved that freely. He is an Appendix QH with QH shoulders and withers. He’s not an impossible fit, but he has been slightly more difficult than some other horses I have ridden previously.

While I would buy a Tad no questions asked for riding this specific horse, I had been cautioned by a friend who is an independent fitter that the flocking on the Tad saddles is pretty thin, so it can (and often does) cause sore backs. She agreed that my horse did move really well in the saddle, but that it may not be a permanent fix.

A lot of your French saddles are really only as good as the fitter. From my understanding (not my personal experience), many of the reps are just that. Reps. They are not very good saddle fitters. Being that CWD, Devoucoux and Butet are all essentially the same company, Voltaire would be my pick if I were going to buy a French saddle. I owned two used Voltaires that I bought directly from the company and couldn’t have been happier with their customer service. Sadly my beloved Voltaire was never going to fit my current horse, but if I could have kept it, I absolutely would have.

[2bayboys]

To repeat, I like TC saddles. The craftsmanship and leather quality is superb. If you call the company, you speak to Tad himself. The saddles fit some horses beautifully, and many riders love the balance and feel.

My complaint is only in the selling of unsubstantiated claims of the benefits to horses. (When he first started making saddles, he claimed quite convincingly that his saddle trees fit EVERY horse. Every single one. This was a flat out lie.) If the current saddle technology is so amazing, where is the therapeutic product I can buy for my own use?

If Tad has accidentally stumbled upon a breakthrough therapy that does all the things he says it does, I sincerely hope he gets all the recognition he deserves.

[ladyj79]

A super wide tree/channel and flat paneled saddle will “fit every horse” or most, with the use of the many expensive leather pads you are supposed to buy from tad to make up for the fact that that base saddle shape is not going to fit that many horses that well without a lot of help.

you can buy any number of brands of saddles that are too wide for your horse and make them “fit” using pads (for less than $400+ a pop). Buying a 5k saddle and then another 1600-2k in leather pads to make true your claim that your saddle fits everything is a great racket…

[ladyj79]

[h=2]Saddle Fit[/h]
Fit is best determined by how your horse goes in the saddle.

Your new Tad Coffin Performance Saddle should accommodate a wide array of horses, if properly padded. Too much padding or too little padding will adversely affect the performance of the saddle. Your saddle arrives broken in; however, the new saddle may sit up a bit higher for the first few rides and may need less padding during this period.

Note: “Fit” is best determined by how your horse goes in the saddle, not by how it looks sitting on his back. Look and listen for your horse’s opinion.
^^^on fitting your new tc saddle, from tc himself.