Taking pictures of riders at events

[wildlifer]

What VCT said. I’ve done my own photography, although never dared do it as anything other than a hobby, so I know how much work it is and I also know what a tough business it is.

I checked out your gallery and as an art/photo snob, you have a lovely eye, truly, and your work is very good! Sure, your timing and framing is off for equestrian events, but having dabbled in all kinds, I can tell you that taking pictures of horses is one of the hardest niches to learn. They look terrible from all the wrong angles, move more quickly and unexpectedly than about any other animal, and if you don’t get just the right part of the stride at each gait, they look like a drunk llama.

But you already have the eye and the glass, the most important parts, timing is so much easier to learn now than it was with the 35 mm! As an example of the types of shots you want to offer, here are a couple of my own events (I’m hardly a pro, ROFL) from my FAVOURITE event photographer on the east coast. She and her partner, Pete, do beautiful work and I’d encourage you to browse her galleries and look at better riders than me!

Great show jumping shots and the first pic over the brush jump is hanging in my office, one of the best I have of this horse: http://brantgamma.exposuremanager.com/g/jones_brena_ll1

A nice variety from my youngster’s 2nd event, he was VERY green. But all jumps are shown in good context and the wide table is always a good choice because the horses generally make a big effort: http://brantgamma.exposuremanager.com/g/jonesbrenall3

She also just shot the Carolina International CIC*** & HT this past weekend, although the photos aren’t up yet. When they are, I’d highly recommend looking at those as well. Brant works super hard and is so nice, as is Gary, who runs GRC Photography and also does great work.

Horse show photography is tough, loooong days, and generally thankless, and I’m not sure I have even heard of a rider having their own photographer. If you are looking for the portrait/farm shoot niche, you probably want to market more towards the breeding farm crowd. Events are great fun though and as long as everyone plays by the rules and works with management, with permission, we can all have a good time.

Lots of moms and friends DO take pics out on course with their own cameras, but are not selling them, hence the difference there. When my mom comes to events, she takes lots of pics and gets some very very nice ones with her big Canon L-series lens. However, if Brant is there and catches those great moments, I will still purchase (probably only digital or a small copy, b/c she is rightfully pricey) or I will get a CD from the cheaper local photog if they got some good ones (but not near as skilled).

[rtphotography]

VCT… that’s what I am trying to figure out ^^^^ so, I understand midair (obviously, the horse over the top of the jump, legs up and totally off the ground), the landing, I am assuming that would be when the horse first touches the ground with front legs but body is still in the air? I can get those shots but not knowing this, didn’t try at RHHT. Most important, more space in the shot? I was assuming closer in crops so the rider could see their expression/horse face, etc. Riders want more of the “scene” of the jump? Looking at a lot of other professional sites I see what you are talking about - I also see a lot of sucky shots too. Totally agree. I appreciate ALL the advice and criticism from you guys. I want to be the best - I want to have people request ME to take their pictures. That’s why I came here to fix any problems. Thanks to all.

[ccoronios]

rtphotography, “As a professional photographer, I know people take pictures at my weddings or sporting events with their I phones, or cameras - but I was hired by the bride or team so I got my money and have much better shots than mom/pop. I personally wouldn’t see a problem if a rider(s) hired me to take photos of them at an event.”

Two issues here:

1. As a wedding photographer (and as you noted), you have been paid by the bride to provide your service. You have, hopefully, done your homework to offer your services to include your time (including planning, day of, and post-processing), travel, expertise, wear & tear on equipment, any additional equipment you might have to rent, any assistants you might have to pay, and the price of whatever products are included in the ‘package’ purchased. So before you do anything, you’ve been paid.

This is not the way it is for show photographers. We do all the planning, day-of, and post-processing, with longer hours, in almost any weather Mother Nature chooses to throw out for the day (if an outdoor show) - [bold]all on spec[\bold]. We KNOW that family takes photos of their family members, and we know they also take photos of friends - and we grit our teeth and cowboy up. But we do get a bit testy, although most of us try to be polite, when we see someone taking pictures of ALL competitors, handing out business cards, etc.

To say that you’re only putting them up on FB or that you’re not selling them - only giving them away - so it doesn’t affect our sales isn’t logical. And if you’re selling them at Dollar Store prices, you are not only affecting the OP’s sales, but you are also devaluing and disrespecting your own work.

2. You say you wouldn’t have a problem if a rider hired you to take photos of them at an event. From whose perspective would you not have a problem? Are you saying that you would not see this as stepping on the OP’s toes? Are you taking competitions photos? Or only ‘backstage’? If you are taking competition photos, you are potentially costing the OP sales.

Our contract with show management gave us exclusive right to sell anywhere on the grounds. Not all photogs include that, but this was for one-ring shows and there were two of us, so one could do candids/portraits while the other was in the ring.

Certainly your first step would be to contact show management, to ask not only if there IS an official photographer, but who that person is and if you could have their contact info. Because, as is often the case, one hand of show management often doesn’t know what the other hand knows. So you should also contact the OP to ask what their contract covers.

Another wonderful source of information on equine photography is Equine Photographers Network (http://www.equinephotographers.org/ ) There’s a 30-day free trial for the forums, which contain boatloads of valuable information.

Good luck!

[ccoronios]

VCT, I have heard that complaint time and time again. It makes my cringe and angry each time. All horse show/event photographers are NOT like that (you didn’t say they were!) and when there’s one nasty wet sock in the hamper, we all get smelling funky.

I’ve been there as the competitor. And as a contracted photographer, I did everything in my power to see to it that no competitor in my shows ever had the same bad experience.

[rtphotography]

ccoronios - totally agree with what you said above. Believe me, I do not want to step on any toes. I’ve only been to ONE show in my life so this is all new to me. I went to RHHT to take pictures for the practice (a local rider) and to learn more about this side of photography. As far as pricing goes, I had no idea either. What I thought is a good price is way under what others charge. trust me, my landscapes sell for $400… and up so I am not an under cutter.

Now that this discussion has open ideas and concerns for me, I’m glad I started it. I’ve seen posts where no OP was at an even so maybe when I take pictures, I can sell those. I’d personally like to go talk to an OP at one of the future events I plan on attending - to talk and find out more about this side of photography. The more I practice, the better I get and then I can make my pitch to an equine event to be the OP. I’ve got to have a portfolio though. Who knows.

I still feel if one rider contacted me saying “I like your work”, I’ll hire you. Ethically, I would go and take only them - on the courses and what ever else they wanted me to take. It’s one rider out of a hundred. Just my opinion. Maybe one day, I can grow big enough to be a true OP at events but again, with my landscape and portrait skills (how I make my living) I would really like to try and get into the personal side of equine photography. I’m sure I’ll piss off some other photographer doing that as well. It’s life. I own quite a few businesses and competitors are always under cutting me. I don’t like it, but it’s called competition and that’s life. If we didn’t have competition, we’d all still be making calls from our AT&T phones…

[Willesdon]

If working for a sponsor, try to shoot from the side of the fence that has the sponsors logo. Sounds obvious but can be forgotten!

[ccoronios]

Willesdon - I’d LOVE to be able to do that - even for the riders. Unfortunately, most of the sponsor signs are on the approach, and most competitors want photos from 45 degree (+/-) front angle. WISH events/shows would put the sponsorship on the ‘going away’ side!

Of course, if I were shooting FOR the sponsor, I’d get the sign - but then there would be sad faces that the angle for the competitor wasn’t ‘pleasing’.

[bizbachfan]

To Original Poster-Rocking Horse usually has a photographer on site for their recognized events and to come and learn I am sure is no problem but to sell them I would think would be an issue. Take a look at the Rocking Horse schedule and come back for the schooling 3 phase. (if it is okay with management of course) and take pictures then for sale. I know I would have loved to have any picture when I did tadpole XC LOL and there was no one to take any. ( I think sometimes they do have photographers at these and sometimes not) But trust me newbies doing lower level and have no aspirations do more than Beginner Novice would be willing to pay for some decent XC photos.

[Willesdon]

So get the sponsors to ask the event organisers and explain the better image possible… don’t ask, don’t get.

[spotlight]

Here are some of my pictures from this past weekend.
Friday: http://www.horsejunkiesunited.com/?p=80809

Saturday: http://www.horsejunkiesunited.com/?p=80928
The picture of Doug Payne and Crown Talisman is one of my favourites.

Sunday: http://www.horsejunkiesunited.com/?p=81093
I don’t always love landing photos, but the one of Boyd and Steady Eddie (last picture in album) is the way I like them to look.

(keep in mind I am in no way a pro - I am an amateur photographer!!)

[wildlifer]

It is a good discussion actually and I, too, am glad the OP started it (replied to your PM as well, OP, sorry, I do have a dr.'s note for the rambling, haha). I miss photography (falls into the category of "things I used to do before I had horses, heh) and taking them for the love and fun of it. The big camera rarely comes out now (plus the autofocus doesn’t work on my nice lens and I have astigmatism and my Rx is 7.8, not so good for shooting animals that move through your focus field quickly!) but I hope that will change soon.

It’s certainly competitive and I so appreciate how lucky we are to have some really high quality “shooters.” My office is full of their watermark on very special moments I will never have again. Thanks to horses being walking suicide machines and our dumb decision to fall in love with them and build these amazing partnerships, we never know which ride is the last one, so a good event photo is so much more than just a “sports picture.”

[wildlifer]

@spotlight*;7498753

Saturday: http://www.horsejunkiesunited.com/?p=80928
The picture of Doug Payne and Crown Talisman is one of my favourites.

Nice, Cindy!!! I love the one of Tout De Suite as well!

[Pipkin]

In between take off and mid air, and from side on usually. Lovely pics

[ACMEeventing]

[QUOTE=spotlight*;7498753]
Here are some of my pictures from this past weekend.
Friday: http://www.horsejunkiesunited.com/?p=80809

Saturday: http://www.horsejunkiesunited.com/?p=80928
The picture of Doug Payne and Crown Talisman is one of my favourites.

Sunday: http://www.horsejunkiesunited.com/?p=81093
I don’t always love landing photos, but the one of Boyd and Steady Eddie (last picture in album) is the way I like them to look.

(keep in mind I am in no way a pro - I am an amateur photographer!!)[/QUOTE]

Hey, I saw you! I was the jump judge in the Suburban at the sunken road where you took that picture of Doug Payne. Awesome shot!

[Duckz]

OP, your photos are beautiful. A friend who did sports photography in college at UVA - so shooting basketball, football, etc - has taken some of my all-time favorite horse shots. And he is not a horse person at all! I think because he’s not a horse person he took chances on shots that horse show pros might not have bothered with. His sports photography background helped too. My point is, you seem to shoot from a fresh perspective and I like it Hopefully you can keep doing your thing while not stepping on too many toes.

Examples of my friend’s shots (and my two faves)
water
up bank

[VCT]

I agree with wildlifer about Brant and Pete… they do a fantastic job and if you look through their stuff you’ll probably see exactly what I and some others are saying about timing, angle, being able to see the surroundings. Like, if you are jumping a huge impressive jump… but you only see the top couple inches of it and the front end of the horse, it doesn’t look as cool as if you can see the whole thing. Anyways, I’m sure you are going to do great! Good Luck

[rtphotography]

Thanks again to all the advice and compliments. Duckz, I agree with you, maybe I am a fresh perspective since that is my style on all my sports shots. I’ll also have to remember my audience though and buyers. It will be interesting to see how I do this weekend with all the tips and pointers. I’ll be sure to post a new link on here to see how well I improved. This forum has been very helpful for many different reasons.

[retreadeventer]

Study good slow motion video of a horse jumping in competition. Frame by frame. Become familiar with the mechanics of how a horse jumps – especially eventing because horses jump the various obstacles on a cross country course very differently. Study the motion, the push, the liftoff. Landing is the least desirable. Taking off is better than landing, and in mid air better than taking off in terms of timing. But you need to know where the apex of the jump is going be and that takes and eye and experience.

[laurelo]

Definitely want to second (or third or fourth at this point) that I want to see the biggest, most impressive jump on course! I know that sometimes the lighting in those areas can be tricky, but ideally, you’d photograph the biggest jump you are able to. I also agree that further away is best- not only do I love being in the great outdoors and seeing that space in the photo, but I am usually making a horrible face and would rather not have that be the focus of the photo. Show me how pretty my horse looks, please!

And on that note, the tip to study a horse’s jump is a great one :yes: Just because my horse is somewhere over the top of the fence in between takeoff and landing doesn’t mean he looks his best. I want to see a good bascule, square knees, etc. Obviously you can’t photograph something that’s not there if the horse has an awkward jump, but you should be familiar with the moment that should look the best so that you can capture it if it happens!

[Daisyesq]

RT, I think your photos are very nice! Keep trying, there is definitely a business model that will work for you… don’t be discouraged from equine photography.