Talk me down! (maybe...)

[Artistinnature]

I’ve been casually perusing the various sales websites / Facebook pages for dressage horses to get educated. I keep finding horses that sound suitable but are a bazillion miles away; it’s tough living in western Montana when it comes to horse shopping. I’d quickly use up all my budget if I went to try every one.

So, a couple days ago I tried a 4 year old Friesian sport horse gelding, 16.1 and a half, that’s a few hours away. Amish bred and raised; harness/driving experience, and supposedly also competed in a dressage schooling show (likely at Intro level). Have never ridden a Friesian or FSH; this guy felt fabulous - springy trot, canter with lift and suspension, and had lovely, relaxed transitions. I’ve just never felt gaits like this - very addictive! (60 year old re-rider; rode eventing several decades ago, mostly just dressage on and off since, on a variety of horses). Plus, he was calm, willing, very sweet tempered, and no naughty that I could find. He’s just 2 weeks off the 5-day trailer trip from Ohio to this area, though, so…

Obviously he’ll be a project to bring along, and I’m not experienced with green(ish) horses. I really like him, and the price is good ($20K range). I do have access to more experienced trainers to (a) work with him, and (b) give me lessons on him. Also, he’s not all flying feathers and extreme mane and tail, thankfully; just a little hair on his fetlocks.

I’m also going to try a 15hh 11 year old Andalusian mare tomorrow that was unstarted until 7, and since then has done 4 summers of ‘trail dressage’ (for lack of a better term) - trails, a little arena work now and then, and her owner doing some lateral work while riding trails. She’s grey, and that’s the one color I’d really prefer not to have (sigh). And her movement will not be fancy (based on the videos I’ve seen), unlike Mr. FSH.

What advice would you give?

[Knights_Mom]

Some are hard to ride and prone to curling. Ask someone who knows the breed.

[Long_Time_Lurker]

It sounds to me like you have found a good one. I would suggest you make an offer and get him vetted. Depending on your relationship with trainer(s) you may want to ask his/her/their opinion too. Although its your decision!

[Artistinnature]

Thank you!! Trainer has seen videos, suggested I make a lowball offer (seller is a GP rider and trainer but also something of a horse trader) to start the conversation. Should I worry whether his full personality isn’t on display yet, after 5 days of trailering and 2 weeks in a new location? Seller bought him from Amish; no PPE, but “I vetted him. He is sound” was her reply when I asked (um, yeah… ).

[scislandsprite]

If he was pretty well behaved after 5 days of trailering & 2 weeks at the new place and is only 4 years old, he’s probably got a good brain! IME they tend to improve as they settle in but YMMV.

This may not be that close to you but Moana Morgans is a dressage barn in the western half of Montana, maybe they’re close? Says on their Facebook that they were selling a 7 yr old foundation Morgan gelding for 8k about a month ago. Maybe still available, might be worth shooting them a message just to check!

[OverandOnward]

If you have not managed feathered horses before, find out about that care. It is not a small thing. I was helping a friend with her Fr for 4 years. Amazing horse, a life experience to ride, but he needed a LOT of care for the feathers.

Even if he is only lightly feathered he may still be prone to keratosis.

This is not a deal-breaker by any means. More of a time management issue. It helps if you are willing to keep the hair shaved around the back of his pasterns and fetlocks.

I’d try the Andy for a comparison. But if you like the Fr and think he can be happy with you, then why not. Your money, time and care, you should enjoy this time with horses.

[Mersidoats]

A couple of these Amish bred Friesian crosses have come through the barn as sale horses. They all have had tractable attitudes, sweet dispositions, and are genuinely interested in people. They have been brave and unflappable. It seems to be a breed trait. Their weak points seem to be weak stifles, and they are leg movers. It is work to get them to remove through their back with swing and looseness, and lift through the withers.

If you enjoy riding the horse, and a PPE doesn’t bring up anything questionable, I’d move forward. You will have some work to do to teach him correct basics. He may need some corrective farrier work for a few cycles. A good mind and pure gaits are worth $$$$, in my opinion.

[GraceLikeRain]

@Artistinnature

Seller bought him from Amish; no PPE, but “I vetted him. He is sound” was her reply when I asked (um, yeah… ).

I’d consider this a strong yellow flag.

He is essentially a horse with no known history that may be completely flooded and shut down going through the motions because he’s a good boy. He could be running a low grade fever from traveling and he’s feeling not 100%. It’s hard to know.

I’d do a second ride with the most critical person you know and then if you still love him, do a PPE with a third ride the day of the PPE along with pulling blood.

A lot of Friesians I know are pretty solid citizens. Some have a bit of a “soldier on” mentality and will push through minor stressors but it builds and then has a bigger display. I’d really observe his personality on the ground. Is he a curious engaged happy four year old or is he a stoic statue that looks slightly glazed over and disconnected?

For a four year old with three solid gaits that is ammy friendly, $20k for a Friesian is quite reasonable. The fact that your trainer is telling you to lowball would make me wonder if there’s an internal comma and second half of that sentence she isn’t saying. Lowball because she thinks the seller got him for pennies and is trying to inflate his price? He looks mega safe but not the soundest? Good boy but moves like a dump truck in her eyes?

[Artistinnature]

Thank you! They’re about 2 hours away – I’ll check out the sales link, and I appreciate the tip!

[Artistinnature]

All excellent thoughts – thank you! Trainer 1 likes his movement, but in general thinks seller should be treated as a horse trader in negotiations (and so suggested lowball). Trainer 2 likes his movement, esp canter, and suggests making an offer that is not lowball. Good horse friend bought a mare from seller 3 years ago, after seller rescued the mare from a kill pen and put 6 months’ training into it; friend adores this mare.

FWIW, Mr. FSH was out in a field when I showed up, and brought himself into the barn to greet us and be haltered - so no real ‘catching’. Pushed his face into everything we were doing, but in a polite way - not obnoxious.

[Arlomine]

I doubt very much that a lowball offer will be entertained. I know where this horse is, and the trainer/broker is very good at sorting through Horses at the Amish auctions and finding good ones. Others have already mentioned the Friesian tendency to be leg movers, and neck curlers. But not all of them are, and a lot of the crosses are really quite nice.

If you get a standard pre-purchase exam with a blood draw you should be just fine. If you have a trainer to help you bring this horse along, you could have a really nice project here

[MapleBreeze]

Dont lowball. It’s their livelihood. What if your boss walked in and said here’s a pay cut because you did your job well?

Some trainers have great eyes for horse shopping and like the training process and enjoy finding prospects and make them ammy friendly.

He sounds like a good egg.
Do a vetting.
Get x rays
Buy him.

[Artistinnature]

Thank you for the advice! Seller did say what Mr. FSH needs most right now is time lungeing in sidereins to teach him to stretch down and work over his back.

I’ve been taking lessons on the only horse available to me in less than an hour’s drive - a very tense Azteca mare who was supposedly a Mexican dancing horse (training that could be considered abusive) and who spends first part of every ride with head straight up, jigging for all she’s worth. Getting a canter can be difficult (rushing, tense), and asking her to do something in that canter (shoulder fore, connect, etc.) is impossible (so far).

Mr FSH was such a total opposite: I didn’t even ask for canter, he just offered such a nice, relaxed transition and springy gait that I almost gasped – so different from the lesson mare. He responds very well to voice aids (from the driving training?) so a quiet “ho-o” brought him down to trot.

[Artistinnature]

Thank you for that advice! I’d most likely keep the hair trimmed on his fetlocks and pasterns (but now I gotta go look up keratosis).

And your note about enjoying my time with horses…as my BHF (best horsey friend) said, we’re not getting any younger. At 60, I don’t want to let more time slip away without one more shot at enjoying a horse and doing all the things (hacking, trails, crossrails, clicker training, and oh yeah, training and showing in dressage). Because who knows how long we have? – Although the frugal side of me is anxious about the money part (sigh).

[Bebe_Falcon1]

He sounds like he could be a real solid candidate! I’m only here to offer encouragement and second the advice already supplied (re: PPE). Can you put a deposit down on him so there’s no worry of him being sold before you’re able to line up the PPE?

If you like him, your trainers like him, and he has a great personality, … I’m not seeing any reason why you wouldn’t move forward with him

[2DogsFarm]

If the full price won’t break you, I’d offer a reasonable lowball: 10-15%, maybe 20, but not less.

Friend has a FriesianX (now 10) & a full Friesian (6).
She drives both, but granddaughter (now 17) rides both & has for years.
Both seem very easy-going & I’ve driven the younger horse, found it fun.

Kid rides WP & Western Huntseat, but unless you aspire to GP, both these horses would be fun to show at lower levels.
The caveat is, true to the breed, they’re really purpose-bred Driving horses.
Like was mentioned upthread, from what I’ve seen of her horses U/S, getting them to work through their back is going to be a project & possibly not in the future.

IIWM, I’d try the Andy mare, then decide.
Note:
Not all Mexican Dancing training is abusive.
I recently saw 2yo & 4yo Azteca stallions doing the very beginning of P&P at liberty.
Guy training them was patient & caring from what I saw.
If I could afford #4, I’d be seriously wanting one of these boys

[NaturallyHappy]

There is quite a bit of good advice here. I agree not to low ball unless he really is a financial hardship. The seller has his or her time and money in the trip to Ohio to find this horse and then ship it all the way to Montana. I ask agree w PPE and to draw blood. I ALWAYS tell people to pull blood. If you do buy him, you might look into lunging w a chambon instead of sidereins.

[KBC]

Buy the horse!

Friesian is a breed that ever interested me that much. I did buy a big black horse with exaggerated movement 10 years ago, and he darn near killed me. That hardened the “Not for me” attitude.

I was shocked when my trainer offered me hers for a show when my little guy was lame.

I was double shocked when I said I would try him.

I was triple shocked when this out of shape, 65 year old, nervous rider LOVED EVERY SECOND.

If I had the cash he would be mine, such a blast to ride, and would certainly improve my fitness real quick.

[CHT]

I would go with the Friesian if you can try him again. I have some experience with them, and some with Andalusians, and I find the former more easy going. Saddle fit can be tricky with both breeds.

The dealer probably has him priced with the assumption she will have him a while. A 20% lower offer pending PPE for a quick sale may well be a fair offer…but you are risking insulting them.

(One warning/thought: a former training client bought a Friesian from the netherlands. The sellers obviously switched horses on her (the very well trained horse in the videos was NOT the horse that got off the plane). if the seller has multiple horses that looks the same, make a note of whorls for both the vet and for you, so you know the horse you try is the one you vet and buy!)

[candyappy]

@Artistinnature

Should I worry whether his full personality isn’t on display yet, after 5 days of trailering and 2 weeks in a new location?

If he is that agreeable now I can only think he will get better as he settles in.

I would get the ball rolling.