Talk me down! (maybe...)

I really love that you noticed that! I hadn’t thought about it, but yes. I sorta felt like the Andi mare would be a nice ‘old lady’ horse, but that’s not where I am (yet. I think. I hope.) I am very much of the same mindset: if it’s meant to be (and I’m working towards it), it will be.

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So the Andi was unstarted until age 7, at which point - due to a longish story not worth repeating - she was given to the current owner. Owner is a natural horsemanship devotee, and mare has excellent ground manners. Owner is not a dressage person, though has done a bit of work to install some lateral movement. Mare only went into a bit 2 months ago, still very chompy on it. Owner does not have a decent arena surface, so trot-canter transitions have not had much work.

So very much yes – Mr FSH made me smile!

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This – is enormously helpful…thank you. I really don’t have the experience to know how easy it is to teach a 12 year old to transfer her weight back and take contact, and have a nice relaxed transition…

FWIW I started my boy under saddle late due to my own life struggles and he’s not exhibited any of the behaviors noted in older started horses. Wether that’s bc of his innate good character or that i was always doing stuff (even if not ridden) with him or some other factors is questionable. Certainly wasn’t my “expert training” :rofl:

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We started many feral horses, some probably 8-9 or older and they trained and later made school horses and did fine.

A horse that has been ridden incorrectly, on the forehand, let amble along discombobulated and no contact for some years, that motor memory it’s body now has, on an older horse, is a different story.

That older horse will learn fine, it’s body will have to remodel to handle learning this new and really easier way to carry itself, but I would say is it worth for an older horse, will just any rider without constant initial professional instruction make it easy for the horse?
Some may like the challenge and go there, is really not hard, but you have to not only know the concepts but understand them and develop the skills to apply them.
Trainers do that all the time, is how you train, if a colt or an older horse, is what training is.
Most general riders are not trainers, they ride trained horses, they may even with help bring well started horses along, but that early training, that takes experience and skills.

OP would be fine going there if she wants to, but an already started properly horse would teach her more happily all along for most people.

If you really fall in love with a horse, then you manage, whatever that horse brings to the equation. If you are trying to remedy something you wish was not there, better be sure you like the horse well enough, it will take longer to get ahead.

Just different situations each one of us will choose for ourselves.

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Oh for sure every horse and it’s situation and history is different. I think OP should go with Mr FSH myself but I sure am biased bc of my boy lol

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Not to be a Debbie Downer … rather just something to consider.

If I’m training / re-training an older horse that hasn’t had much education to date, and/or some incorrect riding … I’m preparing that the horse is likely to have comfort issues. As others have pointed out, their body has developed around a different set of asks. There are muscles and other body parts that have never before developed to do this.

There is definitely going to be some body soreness to navigate. Maybe not much, but maybe a lot of it. Likely to come & go. May be not so predictable, sometimes the horse is good to go, sometimes unexpectedly it is not. Tendons, ligaments, joints … there is no knowing what shape they are in now and how well they will eventually adapt. Or how long that will take for the horse to be truly comfortable and unbothered.

It’s sort of like getting a 30-40 year old human into training for a sport they’ve never done before. Using muscles they have never used, developing strength where they have never had it. Not saying it can’t be done. But it may be a bumpy road.

Just from experience, if the Andy mare is enough of a possibility to get a PPE, have the xray her back for kissing spine. I’d be concerned in a horse I thought hadn’t developed correctly.

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Life is too short to not have fun doing what we do.

Mr FSH made you smile and you can’t stop thinking about him - go do a PPE and take him home!

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Thread title “Talk me down!” :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

When someone asks COTH to tell them not to buy a horse, it’s like walking into a bar full of unreformed lifetime alcoholics and shouting “help me stop drinking!” And they say “here take this drink and let’s sit down and talk about this”. Things do not get better from there. Definitely, keep drinking and buy the horse. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

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OP : Is the Friesian purebred or a cross? (my limited knowledge is that a Fr. Sport Horse is a cross). if so, do you know what the other half is? I know several that are crosses, they are all doing well dressage-wise and seem to be able to come through their backs better than a purebred. Note that this is anecdotal, but worth considering.
Agree with others that a young greenie of good disposition is better than older greenie. Personally I would clip off any unnecessary hair, its just too much trouble.

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OMG thank you for the great LOL to start my day!!! So TRUE.

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There is great satisfaction when you turn a horse’s point of view around. To get in there, into the mind of the horse and move them into wanting to do as you ask, to seek to please…Well that is a big deal. So to me, that second, older …less handled horse is more appealing.
But also, once a horse gets into your mind…and you think about him/her all.the.time…well, why would you resist?! (assuming health clearances of course). WHen i find i’m enthralled with a horse, so very many obstacles transform and become opportunities to really get to know him/her more completely.

About fuzzy feet…because i live in Missouri, where it can be muddy for two seasons and the humidity is stifling… i too would trim. But anyone living in a dry climate, i don’t think it would be a problem. I could be wrong about that, as i’ve never had a horse with fetlock hair. BUT…the famous Budweiser team came from here…so… But they have grooms and facilities and $$

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OP, I think I know the person that is selling. She is ethical and honest about the horses she has for sale. That grey mare is very nice. Maybe not as flashy as the Friesian, but super consistent.
Sheilah

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That would help very much, as the OP really only has a not that intensive first impression, that may not be quite what the mare really is like?
A horse with a history behind it and some that know about the circumstances is more credible than a mere guess.

OP may end up needing a new shiny penny and leave it to luck which side comes heads. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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OP, the next time you visit your future new Fr, ask to pick up his feet and take a close look behind the pasterns under the feathers to see what’s going on. Really push the hair aside and feel for crustiness on the skin all over the back of the pastern and under the fetlock.

If you are willing to put in the effort for this horse then that wouldn’t be a deal-breaker to me. But you could see your starting point.

A humid climate can make it worse, but a dry climate doesn’t make it better. Hyperkeratosis (aka Mallenders) is a by-product of breeding for hairy legs, not an environmental effect. It’s excess keratin produced by the skin and it grows forever like fingernails, although it is layers and layers of hard flakiness that can become a lump. Virtually every feathered horse has it to some degree.

If well-managed by humans it can be minimized to nearly insignificant. If it is not managed by humans it can be miserable for horses. Like ever-growing fingernails, either it breaks or is torn away painfully, or accumulates and creates pressure points and fungus habitat.

I have seen feathered horses with bleeding wounds from it. And one with old wounds scabbed over with feather-hair embedded. That horse was almost too lame to ride, just from chronic pain, and definitely needed veterinary intervention that he was not getting.

As far as the Bud Clydes I have wondered about this and surmise that a major part of the grooms’ job is managing mallenders (and the feathers of course). It would be interesting to know how they do it because they may have come up with efficient means. It can be a major time draw.

Unfortunately there are people who like the look and so buy feathered legs without knowing about the issues. And then don’t provide care for it, maybe don’t even notice it under the feathers, to the increasing misery of the horse.

It’s hard to find good photos online because the worst of it is underneath thick hair. The picture on this linked page of the crud through the feathers - there is a possibility that the growth is 1 to 2 inches deep before you reach the skin, if it is a well-grown case. If you put your finger or hand there, or part the hair visually, you can feel and see the significance.

https://www.honeychop.com/2021/06/mallenders-and-sallenders/#:~:text=The%20only%20proven%20and%20effective,diet%2C%20the%20condition%20can%20improve.

A lot of the online info is from people who are selling something to treat it. But sometimes it is very helpful stuff.

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I need to clarify. I think I know the seller of the Friesian. She also has a nice grey Andy-cross mare for sale. This grey mare is very nice.
Sheilah

Friesian is cross. He’s 87.5% Friesian; his papers show both PB Friesian and Friesian Sport Horse in the lineage. So not a half of anything, and not specific breeds listed in the lineage.

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I don’t think it’s the same seller, because I’m pretty sure she didn’t have a grey mare, Andi-cross or otherwise, for sale…

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One of my final pics in the BLM auction is this guy with feathered feet… Think he could get this condition? (you have to scroll down through the pics to get to the video, film icon, to see how feathery his feet are.
https://wildhorsesonline.blm.gov/animals/03268522. ooops! wrong horse…that’s the one with the big wide scapula. Here’s ‘feathered feet’ gelding: > > https://wildhorsesonline.blm.gov/animals/20750860

:astonished: :flushed: :nauseated_face: :face_vomiting:

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