Talk to Me About Upper Level Eventing Prospects

[goodmorning]

The wrong ones :eek:

I am hopeful that the program that EC mentioned gets some of the lovely US bred horses into good programs where they are paid for accordingly. It’s disheartening to see people import horses from across the pond for $$$ & think that US breeders or owners of young horses should expect less money when it costs far more to breed & raise them here in the US than it does overseas. The Dutch ownership program where maybe there is some discount given for the breeder to remain owner and recieve proceeds from the next sale may be an interesting model to explore, but eventually Uncle Sam wants his tax dollars & a profit so it’ll be interesting to see if that program helps breeders long term.

[MustangTwist]

@goodmorning

The wrong ones :eek:

I am hopeful that the program that EC mentioned gets some of the lovely US bred horses into good programs where they are paid for accordingly. It’s disheartening to see people import horses from across the pond for $$$ & think that US breeders or owners of young horses should expect less money when it costs far more to breed & raise them here in the US than it does overseas. The Dutch ownership program where maybe there is some discount given for the breeder to remain owner and recieve proceeds from the next sale may be an interesting model to explore, but eventually Uncle Sam wants his tax dollars & a profit so it’ll be interesting to see if that program helps breeders long term.

I would love to see American breeding programs take off. However, the fact that it’s more expensive to breed and develop horses domestically means it’s more expensive to sell them too. I understand breeders in the US must sell for higher because their costs are higher. But I also don’t blame buyers for looking overseas if that’s where they can get the best value for their dollar, even taking import fees into consideration.

[goodmorning]

Yes, but since we do so poorly at the 5* level, what is the point of picking the wrong horses? And they are paying more to buy them and get them over here, and yes, they are often the second best after those on the other side of the pond have made their choices. Or bought for a premium at an auction & never make it. Waste of syndicate & owner money, because the riders aren’t financing these horses, most
of the time.

[MustangTwist]

@goodmorning

Yes, but since we do so poorly at the 5* level, what is the point of picking the wrong horses? And they are paying more to buy them and get them over here, and yes, they are often the second best after those on the other side of the pond have made their choices. Or bought for a premium at an auction & never make it. Waste of syndicate & owner money, because the riders aren’t financing these horses, most
of the time.

Where is the evidence suggesting domestic homebreds do better at the 5* level than horses imported to the US?

I don’t necessarily think it’s true they’re “paying more to buy them and get them over here.” Often purchase prices are significantly lower in Europe for horses of a similar caliber (due to things like lower showing and stabling costs, for example), so in a year with a good exchange rate, you can certainly purchase overseas and spend less than you would for the same type of horse bred in the US, even taking into consideration $10-15k in transport costs.

Edit: As to the point about the only horses for sale being second-string types, if you look at the sales lists for some of the Irish event horse auctions, you’ll see plenty of European buyers along with some North American ones. I think the other thread about Max C’s article is also relevant here. It may not be that we’re “picking the wrong horses” but something about how we develop and maintain our horses.

[elizabeth_Callahan]

Part of our problem is that we don’t develop these UL horses. We buy them and break them. We still need a network of riders who can develop the youngsters

[goodmorning]

@elizabeth Callahan

Part of our problem is that we don’t develop these UL horses. We buy them and break them. We still need a network of riders who can develop the youngsters

Absolutely. But are the ULRs going to ask their owners to buy these youngsters for their advertised fair prices? Prices that allow breeders to stay in business?

For example, a breeder locally bred two lovely siblings. The younger weanling went to HJ land. I watched this breeder drop the price on the 2yo and could not believe he was on the market still - just top bloodlines to be a 5* horse. LK snatched him up. This breeder seems to have stepped away from breeding Eventing horses. Maybe someday they will return, I’m not sure not speaking for said breeder, but I do know selling 2yos at that price is not sustainable for a business plan. And that I wish the timing was right because I would have snatched up that fancy 2yo & he would have been a happy amateur N/T event horse packer extraordinaire :yes:

ETA: this is not a knock on LK, her name was only mentioned as she has a program that can bring along a youngster, and speak to the quality of said horse.

[enjoytheride]

I know several people that have gotten upper level prospects from Ireland recently. Green but fancy and already jumping without the mileage from racing. They wouldn’t do it if the same kind of horse was available in the US for the same price. It seems to cost much more for a horse with similar training, that probably already has some track miles in the US and the track horses seem to not be as far along under saddle.

[kmwines]

If you’re buying from Cooley in Ireland expect to pay 40-60,000 for a started and going but green horse

[MustangTwist]

@enjoytheride

I know several people that have gotten upper level prospects from Ireland recently. Green but fancy and already jumping without the mileage from racing. They wouldn’t do it if the same kind of horse was available in the US for the same price. It seems to cost much more for a horse with similar training, that probably already has some track miles in the US and the track horses seem to not be as far along under saddle.

That’s my impression, too. The cache of saying “he/she is an import” doesn’t seem like it’s worth the extra $10k - $12k to ship them over here, and I don’t think so many people (esp. people w/ budgetary constraints) would be spending that extra money if we had the exact same types of horses here in the US for the exact same prices. I’d be happy to be proved wrong.

Do you happen to know what farms they purchased from or what agents they used? Would love that info if you’re willing to share it (maybe via private message).

[MustangTwist]

@kmwines

If you’re buying from Cooley in Ireland expect to pay 40-60,000 for a started and going but green horse

Interesting - I can see that Cooley caters to the upper tiers of the market.

I feel like in Ireland you also see UL riders like Michael Jung, Mary King, Oliver Townsend, etc. picking up young horses for between 8000 - 25000 euros, though. If Cooley is the top of the market for UL prospects, would these auctions be the bottom? The middle? Something in between?

[enjoytheride]

@kmwines

If you’re buying from Cooley in Ireland expect to pay 40-60,000 for a started and going but green horse

None of the ones I know about came from Cooley