TB Dressage/Sport Horse Stallions for Appendix Baby

SC has been dead for eight years and was pensioned long before that, so he wouldn’t be an option to breed to.

He has a lot of very valuable sons, and I personally do not believe he sired a bad temperament. He is a household name that people recognize and they will blame him for their horse’s fractious behavior before looking at their management or riding capability.

One thing that is interesting about SC is that while he himself was not a great mover (for sport) he seems to improve movement depending on the mare he is bred to. Tail male seems to be the best place for SC to sit, with his sons and grandsons being better than him (in terms of sport movement). GC, Frost Giant, Black Minnaloushe, Johannesburg, and Harlans Holiday all have offspring that are quickly picked up for sport because of their sporty movement. I know HH and FG have mares approved for breeding in WB books with good marks on movement. In looking at SC alone, I would never expect that - but when you look across the board at what SC sired it’s a whole different story.

There is no disputing the quality of some of his sons for sport. Giant’s Causeway is probably his best in terms of racing and sport, but there’s tons others. I’ll post ones off of the top of my head and I still won’t even exhaust the well that is SC’s good sons/grandsons:

Here’s GC (Stonesider is a carbon copy of GC except bigger):
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Here is Freud:

Here is Frost Giant (I absolutely love this stallion, he makes some incredible movers):
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Here is Black Minnaloushe (one of my favorite SC studs):

Scat Daddy:
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Johannesburg:
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Harlan’s Holiday (a VERY proven line for sport with several mares of his being approved for breeding in WB books):

Flashstorm:

Forestry:
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Speightstown:

Honor Code:

Jump Start (who eventers love):
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These stallions are probably not available to the public for “non-racing” stud fees – but they are stallions that TB flippers regularly look for because their type is so consistent and they are great sport horses.

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I’m not sure if he’s still standing, but Oliver’s Twist is/was in Colorado:

http://www.menokenfarms.com/olivers-twist/

I saw several of his get at Arapahoe Park and they were all just LOVELY. Super sporty, nicely built. Kicking myself that I didn’t breed a mare to him when I had the chance! He’d be quite old by now so might be gone/pensioned, but I couldn’t find any mention of his death. Worth asking about :slight_smile:

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I don’t disagree about what Storm Cat sired in relation to better conformation for sport and I’m well aware of his being gone. There was an armed guard in a tower watching him 24/7 where he stood, so he was not affordable or available for sport breeders. I think he sired enough tough minded babies to earn that reputation, but breeding to a nice mare certainly makes a difference! I’ve been a breeder for 40 years and make is a habit to know pedigrees and anecdotes. You have to dig a bit if you are a sport breeder and seeking an appropriate Thoroughbred stallion. I shipped a mare from Alabama to Texas to use a particular stallion some years ago. Certainly lines seem to consistently produce well for sport. Pleasant Colony (gone for awhile) has a line that seems to do well.

I see. I guess I was confused on the warning about breeding to him then, unless you meant in relation to him being present in the pedigree of one of the stallions mentioned above. I agree - he himself was not at all what I picture when I think of a sport horse - but his sons are sporty as heck and some of them are very typey movers. Frost Giant, Harlan, Harlan’s Holiday and Johannesburg especially make horses that move really nicely.

He is a little like Roberto and Deputy Minister in that way, where you look at them and you aren’t blown away by their type – but then you see what they are siring and there is no denying their ability to do sport at the upper levels (eventing).

Sadly every nice TB stallion I like is too closely related to my girls.

Soooo back to Gem Twist clones… which ones are standing now and does anyone have any other information on them? Which one is the best etc…anything?

Both Murka’s Gem and Gemini were born in 2011 and 2008 respectively so they do have offspring on the ground. Some have show records, some don’t - oldest looks to be 11.

Laura Chapot has several Gemini offspring that do have a record. I believe if you’re in NA Gemini CL is more readily available than Murka’s Gem. I know they are clones, but I like what I’ve seen from Gemini CL in videos better.

I always thought it was weird that the two were not more heavily competed - but maybe they are resting on the coat-tails of their progenitor’s success. I also know that these connections are meticulous and SLOW in their approach to bringing up a horse, so that may also explain the lack of exposure out there. For a while clones were not allowed to compete, too.

There is also Gem Twist Alpha Z – 2012, but no idea about him.

Have you looked into Future Hepsilon or Future Prophecy? Both nice, one is high blood the other is 100%, and pretty proven pedigree for sport without having the bloodlines that have totally saturated US dirt breeding.

Unfortunately, I don’t think either would improve movement much… but we know they can jump given the performance of their pedigree.

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This is another CO stallion that might be worth a look. We just don’t have much of this sire line left!

https://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/165906/laughing-charlie

Laughing Charlie pedigree

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I don’t know anything about Future Hepsilon or Future Prophecy, can you give me a run down?

I’m not worried about movement, my mare is a huge and really fluid mover already. I can not get the images of Gem Twist out of my head after watching his documentary. I think if he evented he would have been a 5* winner…over and over. If I even got 5% of his heart and jump I would be happy lol

Also thank you for all the info!! Time to go research :blush:

I don’t have any first hand experience with either but I like FSH a lot. They stand a stallion I have liked for a long time, so I check their page from time to time.

Future Prophecy is by Power Blade, a stallion used in the UK. He had a good competition record, but his sire was really nice - sired several top jumpers and eventers. FH combines a lot of good blood for eventing, with Hand In Glove as a damsire (most would know him through Jaguar Mail), Shirley Heights (a VERY good line for sport) with Blushing Groom and Green Dancer damside. The last two are not too uncommon in US breds, so depending on your mare there may be some shared ancestry, but both are good sires for sport. There’s a lot to like about FP’s pedigree as a whole, it’s packed with performance for both sport and racing.

Future Hepsilon is one of Upsilon’s sons, out of a Heraldik (great eventing pedigree) mare. He is not 100% TB so you would not have any registration options with JC. Upsilon was the grey showstopper shown by Tom Carlile that got very ill a few years back. He is a really nice horse, it is a shame he got sick. If Future Hepsilon is half as classy as his sire, he’s worth a look for an eventer with the right mare. From videos he seems to have inherited his sire’s lovely canter.

Ok I thought that was an Upsilon son… I’ve heard really good things about his sons. I am obsessed with Upsilon and have been following him. Thank you, lots to look into!!

I also love Blushing groom… never saw one that wasn’t incredible over fences.

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This just cracks me up: https://futuresporthorses.co.uk/stallions/future-prophecy/

Stable Name: Steve

Steve? :rofl: :rofl:

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I KNOW. I’m guilty of naming horses after people names but I draw the line at Steve!! :laughing:

If you Google “British Breeding” which is the umbrella organisation for British Sport Horse Breeding, they ran a series last year of virtual stallion shows for the three Olympic disciplines. They are still available on line. The video quality is not the best but there are many good horses on show. The eventing one has several TBs.

(Edited for clarity)

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+1. The SC descendants (via different sons) I know well are lovely, agreeable types.

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I’m actually in touch with State Stud Celle now, trying to get this done. I have an AQHA mare I’m looking to breed also for a dressage prospect. It’s harder than it sounds, AQHA needs certain authorized information, plus DNA and genetic panels. It will take at least one straw of frozen for the genetic panel, if Celle is willing to release the JC papers and authorization to obtain DNA from JC.

If I can’t get the frozen done, I’m likely to use Sea Accounts or Raven Sky (I like Danzig). Though I’ve considered Artrageous too, he can sire small though and tends to have more hunter trots but very nice canters.

Another you might consider is Boledoras, he is APHA/JC with a nice way of going.

Stravinsky unfortunately has no semen left eligible to import stateside. And it requires a lot of stallion owner help to list a TB with AQHA. From what I understand Stravinsky’s owner had some issues with his horses.

They also have DGS Replicated who is fairly nice. My Rugged Destiny is an aged Buckskin Rugged Lark son. There aren’t really many AQHA stallion purposely meant for dressage.

Modern AQHA hunter types you could look
at would be Ultimately Fabulous, Indian Artbeat, and No Doubt This Is Hot. I’m sure more will occur to me later.

I’m keeping a 3yr AQHA/APHA colt specifically for dressage purposes. The little twerp also severely injured his stifle in a pasture accident so I haven’t been able to start him yet.

You might take a look at Artful Run (Artie Schiller), I think he’d be worth taking a risk on and he’s in NM.

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How about Saketini? He is a much better mover than the stallions you’ve listed and has a solid show record that is only going up.

I like Artrageous a lot after seeing a few of his kids, and I was the first to point out his lack of a show record back in the day. Foot meet mouth, because his offspring are really nice.

I’m on the fence about Raven Sky. He is in great hands so I hope to be proven wrong. He was talked up as the next big thing in a few event breeder circles but I still want to see him have a career.

A few other TB stallions to add to your roster:
Petrol (very fancy moving TB in Texas, with Sue Gallagher, a dressage rider)
Landamongthestars (Katrina Schmidt, THANKS A Lot Farm)
Peanutbutter Fever (Pat Dale)
Highclere Romance (AFR son)
Confidence Game (Colleen Rutledge)

sadly, I just lost my big beautiful Stonesider mare in a barn fire in Indiana. She was lovely and sound.