TB mare "Sold Without Pedigree" question

[Flying_Ponies]

(x posted in racing forum)
Hi Everyone,
I took on a tb mare from a rescue knowing the papers were in some sort of flux. I went on the jockey club site to look up her name and it was listed as Sold Without Pedigree. The ridiculous part of this is that the previous owner abandoned her, let her starve and really could have cared less, but managed have the time to mark her as S.W.P. ??? ah jeeeeezzzzzzz,…Does this mean I can never get her papers…

What about proving who she is for use in breeding for sport?

Any and all advice, experiences, etc welcome. thanks!!

[everafterfarm]

If you can read her tattoo, then you can get a copy of her pedigree(just pedigree not papers). I had a mare approved with just that as we had no idea what happened to her papers. If she isn’t tattooed, then I don’t know what to tell ya. Maybe someone with more experience with the JC will have better advice.

[Laurierace]

8. SOLD WITHOUT PEDIGREE

   A. Any owner who desires a horse no longer to be considered a Thoroughbred for racing or breeding purposes must promptly surrender the Certificate of Foal Registration to The Jockey Club within 60 days after the date of sale with an accompanying notation that the horse was transferred or sold “without pedigree.” The notation must be signed by the owner or authorized agent and indicate the date of disposition. In the event the owner or authorized agent surrenders the Certificate of Foal Registration to The Jockey Club in the above manner more than 60 days after the date of transfer or sale, then the new owner or transferee must also submit a statement that the horse was purchased or received without pedigree.

   B. Upon receipt in The Jockey Club Registry Office, the respective Certificate of Foal Registration will be cancelled. Once the registration is cancelled, the horse cannot be reinstated into the registry, and a Duplicate Certificate of Foal Registration will not be issued.

   C. Notations upon a Certificate of Foal Registration which do not clearly indicate transferred or sold without pedigree, including notations such as “not to be raced,” shall not result in cancellation of the Certificate of Foal Registration. Such notations could be regarded as defacing the Certificate of Foal Registration. Submission to The Jockey Club of any such defaced Certificate of Foal Registration may cause a Corrected Certificate of Foal Registration to be issued.

As you can see you can not get replacement papers on the mare. As far as breeding for sport I imagine you could find some registry that would let you do it but don’t know enough about them to tell you which ones.

[rcloisonne]

@Laurierace;5691864

8. SOLD WITHOUT PEDIGREE

   A. Any owner who desires a horse no longer to be considered a Thoroughbred for racing or breeding purposes must promptly surrender the Certificate of Foal Registration to The Jockey Club within 60 days after the date of sale with an accompanying notation that the horse was transferred or sold “without pedigree.” The notation must be signed by the owner or authorized agent and indicate the date of disposition. In the event the owner or authorized agent surrenders the Certificate of Foal Registration to The Jockey Club in the above manner more than 60 days after the date of transfer or sale, then the new owner or transferee must also submit a statement that the horse was purchased or received without pedigree.

So, if I’ve read this correctly, someone could purchase a registered TB sold with papers and have those papers nullified by the seller within 60 days of a sale? :eek:

[Flying_Ponies]

Well, I just got off the phone with the Jockey Club regarding this mare. He remembered the case where the owner left 70 tb’s in Ocala to starve and then literally left the country.

the previous “owner” absolutely made the horse I took on as SWP. It PERMANENTLY marks her as REMOVED from consideration of being a THOROUGHBRED for racing , or breeding forever. HOW ridiculous is that??:eek::eek::eek: So basically, this guy got off free with neglect and starvation of 70 horses and was able to still control their future!!! And they are ok that other people have spent the last year cleaning up their mess and are now SOL with regard to registry and proof of pedigree.

Sadly,the horse I took has no tattoo. No good deed goes unpunished I guess.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=rcloisonne;5691931]
So, if I’ve read this correctly, someone could purchase a registered TB sold with papers and have those papers nullified by the seller within 60 days of a sale? :eek:[/QUOTE]

Only if they didn’t take the papers when they bought them. They have to be physically returned to the JC where it’s destroyed. The old owner has to hand in the Certificate of Foal Registration (the only papers a TB has). If the horse was sold “with papers” they can’t do that. You can’t just call up and say a horse is SwP or dead without handing them in. My old OTTB has never been officially declared dead to the JC because I don’t want to send the foal papers in.

And if the OP’s horse and others were sold without papers, it’s irrelevant who bought them and what condition they were in or why. The procedure was followed, the papers are gone and they’ve been struck from the registry. The JC rightly doesn’t care whether you can breed or inseminate them for crossbreds or not, just that their last owner of record did not want them used to race or produce thoroughbred babies.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=Flying Ponies;5691953]
Well, I just got off the phone with the Jockey Club regarding this mare. He remembered the case where the owner left 70 tb’s in Ocala to starve and then literally left the country.

the previous “owner” absolutely made the horse I took on as SWP. It PERMANENTLY marks her as REMOVED from consideration of being a THOROUGHBRED for racing , or breeding forever. HOW ridiculous is that??:eek::eek::eek: So basically, this guy got off free with neglect and starvation of 70 horses and was able to still control their future!!! And they are ok that other people have spent the last year cleaning up their mess and are now SOL with regard to registry and proof of pedigree.

Sadly,the horse I took has no tattoo. No good deed goes unpunished I guess.[/QUOTE]

That does suck. If you know her name we can get her pedigree if that helps any.

[Flying_Ponies]

Laurierace,
Thank you so much for the offer, I appreciate it! I was given her name and actually found her on equineline. I would just like to prove it beyond a doubt, all things considered. I asked the JC if there was any way (at my expense) that I could send in DNA/blood/sample of choice and pay to have it compared to whatever was used to ID her when she was registered as a foal. I asked the question in multiple ways and received the same answer, ‘no can do’.
Obviously as a riding horse it is not so much of an issue,it only matters wrt breeding…still ticks me off that the JC won’t even consider helping me ID her because of procedure. BAH!

[TrinitySporthorses]

You can still present her to the ISR/Oldenburg registry and (if she is of decent quality), she will be put in the “Pre-mare book” and all her foals (by approved stallions) would be registered and branded ISR (International Sporthorse Regsitry).
Also, some non-warmblood breeds have half-registries such as “Half-Arabian” papers if you bred to one of those stallions.

[Flying_Ponies]

Thanks TrinitySportHorses, that is great info to know re ISR.

[Elfe]

Actually, I think, GOV does the same. I was at an inspection where somebody presented a TB mare without papers and she was entered into a lower book.