Thanks! I really enjoy hearing about what the horses are REALLY like.
What was the name of that grey colt by Tapit who ran in the triple crown races a couple of years ago, and was wacky as hell? He was from Japan…
They were giving you crap. I worked there and although he was a nervous breeder, he was always kind enough and appreciated his peppermints. John Sosby told me the meanest stallion there during his long tenure was Drone. Danzig liked to bite, but his cantankerousness was was tempered by his lameness. Go For Gin could be an ass, but usually when you were putting his halter on. All of the others were just normal tempered stallions (meaning they could get mouthy but didn’t go out of their way to be mean). And they didn’t move Goldie and Danzig because Seth didn’t believe in upsetting older stallions that had spent years in the same paddock. He also wouldn’t sell a mare after she turned 15. I’ve never met anyone in this business that loved their horses more than the Hancocks.
as LaurieB mentioned, Silver Ghost was nasty and Dynaformer could be a handful. Parade Ground was the worst behaved stallion I ever saw. Silver Hawk was also a jerk. The sweetest ones I knew personally were Horse Chestnut and Indian Charlie. You could lay in the stall with Chuck, probably because he had been so sick.
oh, and Levels Sands. Maybe not so mean as just a complete nut case. If he had the opportunity to hang a leg over the shank, he would. Probably not the most brilliant idea to breed a Sea Bird mare to Storm Cat, although he was the best looking son of SC I ever saw.
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Oh and Woodman bit my friend’s thumb completely off. First “rule of thumb” of leading stallions is to keep it tucked in.
Lani? I read an article recently that talked about Tapit’s temperament. I’ll see if I can find it.
Thank you for this! Very interesting!
I LOVE the fact that the Hancocks love their horses. It means alot.
I bet on Go For Gin to win the Preakness, and he did (I hope that’s the race I bet on…LOL) He was known to be a wackadoodle back then. I do not remember who the jockey was, but I do remember thinking, “if anyone can keep him in line, it’s THAT guy!”
I remember that Danzig had lameness problems, but I do not remember what they were- did he founder? What defines “worst behaved stallion that you ever saw?” Biting, kicking, standing up and striking?
I ask because the nasty SOB that I stood would try and strike at you if you got in front of his shoulder, cow kick you if you were too far back, and bite you ALL the time. He was simply awful, and I felt badly for him, because I have to believe that he was just miserable in his own skin.
He was also a headache to breed. He’d walk in all happy, (although he was STILL trying to kill you) and then decide he did not want to play that day. I finally worked out that if he had to watch the mare leaving, he would decide it was show time, and we could get the mare covered. But, it was a learning curve with him.
He went to one of the larger breeding farms (at that time) here in PA. I knew the owner well, and he called me after he got the horse, and tried to breed him. He called me, and asked me, “what the HELL did you do to get this done?”
I said, “Charlie, did you ever dance with a fat man?” And he laughed and laughed.
I heard Woodman was nasty. I knew a Halo stallion when he was in his 20s, he was a little cantankerous bit I was told he’d mellowed with age.
My own stallion is an absolute gem, as I’ve heard about his sire, Bernardini. I never intended to have a stallion, but I love having him in my barn. He is very kind and honest, never looking to “get you” or catch someone off guard. He can occasionally be mouthy, when haltering or bridling he may grab dangling leather straps to chew, but never a human. The rare times he accidentally grabbed my sleeve, he jerks back in horror and remorse, before I can even react. He loves brushing and face rubs, and 99% of the time is better behaved than most geldings. I would trust anyone with the littlest bit of horse sense to handle him in normal daily life.
He is only studdish when teasing and breeding, and at those times I’m reminded just how powerful he can be, and I’m just a tiny human at one end of the shank, with 1200lbs of pent-up testosterone at the other. He truly is well-behaved, obedient, and knows his jobs well, but breeding live cover is perhaps the most dangerous thing I’ve ever done with horses (more than riding Advanced xc!). I trust him more so than the mares!
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I met Danzig on a visit to Claiborne. He was in his paddock and was very friendly. Maybe a good day, LOL. Of course, Secretariat was a total sweetheart, Nijinsky II was aloof but not at all nasty, Mr. P was fine, I was told Raise A Native could be a nasty SOB - once got off a mare he was breeding to go after a groom or someone who had disciplined him! I met some more there, and will try to get more memories to share. I met Alydar and Affirmed at Calumet. Alydar was showoff and would bite but wasn’t really viscious, just saying “I’m special, so I can”. Affirmed was distracted and running the fenceline. There were some others there too - more memory searching. I visited Windfields and met (GASP!) Northern Dancer who was in his paddock and my sister reached up to touch him, and I grabbed her hand and said “DON’T! He probably bites” Which he did but missed and her comment (succinct at the least) was “Cocky little bastard isn’t he?” WELLLLLL - I’d say he has every right! We got to pat him and get pictures when he came in and he was ok. They said when trailers came in he would stand on his hindlegs with his hoofs on the window sill in his stall to see who was coming in. He certainly knew he was special and had “presence”. The Minstrel was lovely - so pretty - both he and ND were on the smaller side. My heart went to Gregorian - who was BIG and as sweetheart - by Graustark. I would have killed to breed a mare to him - great sporttype. I also met Cannonade, who was nice and try to remember who else. I had met Graustark in Kentucky and he was nice - in his paddock and let me pet him which was an honor. I heard he was a biter but he didn’t. His Majesty (full brother) was in a paddock across the lane running the fenceline and showing off. I got to pet him just a second. Little Current I believe was there but I don’t remember much about him. I’ll add some more later. I will say meeting Alleged made me breathless - he was in motion standing still. He had to be led by two handlers, could be dangerous, but let me pat him in his paddock. I have an older mare that was an allowance winner, who is has Alleged on her damline and Raise A Native and Nijinsky II and Crimson Satan and YES! she can be a handful, but so intelligent and I adore her. She has produced well, I have a daughter and granddaughter (TK) from her and she had 2 TB colts by my stallions who were successful in sport. She looks great at 28! More later…
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I went to Lane’s End back in 2013 for a tour. Both Curlin and AP were LOVES. Rock Hard Ten and Lemon Drop Kid came up to the fence for scratches. Union Rags was friendly but wiggly and impatient like I would expect out of a young stallion. A few weren’t interested in socializing but I don’t remember them warning us that anyone was particularly nasty
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I met Woodman when I was 9. The Ashford stallion manager brought him up in his paddock using his belt as a lead shank and he was sweet as pie. He became more difficult in his much later years, after his EPM diagnosis. Most Mr. Prospectors are not that difficult.
I have also patted Orb and fed him mints. No different than any other stallion.
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tiznow and distorted humour were both good boys when I met them a few years back. tiznow was a little bit nippy but I was permitted to give him lots of pats and scratch his head. I had the barn to myself and was just warned to watch out for one of them trying to take a quick shot :lol:. But they were good.
Skip Away was a total love bug too. Big ham. Never even chewed on his lead shank like so many do. Complete gentleman. Would’ve thought he was gelded.
I agree that it is very much a management thing and it starts at an early age. Not every stallion is going to be 100% a puppy but if they are in a program which instills manners 24/7; it can be done.
Lani’s situation always made me sad. Wasn’t he locked in a stall in Japan with no windows or doors ever open. :no: Had two leadsmen and all sorts of headgear and chains. He may have been difficult but his situation was a young colt who knew how to take full advantage of the situation and in the long run; his quality of life sucked. Hope he’s better in stud life and living somewhere where he is made to behave.
I don’t think any of this is true.
Granted, I don’t follow the social media intricacies of derby runners. But I have always heard the exact opposite coming out of the Japanese camps: our American backsides are prisons compared to their training centers.
There are two, massive training centers in Japan, and every single horse racing is required to live at one of them if they are going to race in JRA races. They live a life of luxury while they train: huge barns, paddocks, top rehab facilities, even “forests” created on site so the horses can commune with nature or some BS. Then they van the horses into the cities to the various tracks on race day.
It’s a cool system that I wish we would consider adapting for our needs. Of course, whenever I say that, I get attacked by just about everyone on this forum. :lol:
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I am not saying the Japanese system in its entirety is bad. They have beautiful facilities for their horses. I too wish we had better options for our equines in the racing world. I envy the Europeans who hack their horses out everyday, But in Lani’s case, I believe it was a bloodhorse article, or something similar that covered how they handle him and it was disturbing.
Link? I found this https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/211325/long-walks-normal-for-lani-trainer which is rather the opposite of what you are saying.
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I seriously remember the story along the lines of him being unsettled and more difficult than usual to handle because of the dramatic change in lifestyle and routine he had to experience coming to the US. Although now that I’m entering my 9th month of pregnancy, my memory is fuzzy about things like this, so I could be totally wrong. :lol:
I’m sure there are good and not-so-good horsemen and practices in Japan, just like anywhere else. But everything about a racehorse’s career seems to be heavily state controlled in a good way over there.
to be honest, I don’t recall. it was 2 years ago. I will have to go fishing to find it. But I will try
"In an attempt to keep Lani calm, he has essentially been reduced to the equine equivalent of solitary confinement in Barn 6 at Belmont Park. His stall was boarded to keep him from seeing other horses, a sight that triggers his aggressiveness without fail.
“He doesn’t prefer to mix with other horses,” Matsunaga said."
Lani, for me, was like the horse version of a bad boy. Lani did what Lani wanted to do when Lani wanted to do it. I do give his connections credit; they played his game and did what they thought was best with a horse like him. He was difficult and maybe his screwes would’ve been screwed tighter if he was gelded.
It has been my experience that either they “think right”, or they do not. While gelding him might have cut back on his aggression (we don’t know that) he would probably still be a whackadoodle. I’ve had some delightful geldings who were a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
With his breeding, he has some value as a stud. As a gelding, he is a worthless whackadoodle when he can’t run anymore.
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In my earlier post, I forgot to mention that I also went to Juddmonte Farm and met Empire Maker and Mizzen Mast. This was before Empire Maker want to Japan. He was totally gorgeous. Big and looked like an oil painting. I thought that sport horse people (especially hunter people) would love him. I got to pet him and he let me, but he was eyeballing me and I probably would have gotten bit if the stallion manager wasn’t controlling him. He didn’t seem mean, but he did seem a little bratty. The stallion manager said that he was spoiled. :lol: Mizzen Mast was sweet. Also big and gorgeous.
So now you are not “disturbed” by his handling at Belmont. That’s good.:yes:
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