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TB Stallions with the BEST and WORST temperaments!

Racing
#61

Ok going through my mental rolodex…

First one I recall meeting was Horatius. I got the job of riding in the truck and trailer with the foreman to take a mare to be bred to him. I loved him and he has certainly produced some nice racers and sport horses.

MD Stallions:

Two Punch… LOVELY. My dad’s boss was a member of the syndicate who owned him. I met him at 20+ years old at Northview.

Partner’s Hero. NOT as lovely and I could easily see why the daughter of his that I galloped was professional to the point of tough. He was pretty though.

Not For Love - Gorgeous and had a kind eye.

Dance With Ravens, who I owned a gelding of his at the time. LOVELY horse. Shame that he’s on the other side of the world now.

Cherokee’s Boy. I rode him one summer and he won 3 stakes in a row at Monmouth. That horse was all class. I mean he was the closest animal I ever saw doing any job to being an automated machine. He knew where to start and finish his gallops, knew which were jog days and his route, in works, knew when to start and where to finish and was as easy as could be at the races* (* I’m taking the trainer’s word for it as I only got to go to the one at Delaware since I had to stay with the primary string. )

I went down and saw him breed a mare his first season at stud and he was doing well with that too. They described the same thing as me. Knows his routine and revels in it. They did let me go out into the field with him and give him some mints. He was much the same as he was on the track. I really wish I could convince more people to breed to him for sport. He has a nice build and page. Just not very popular.

Ky Stallions:

Way long time ago (2006) I stopped by Three Chimneys at closing time, explained I was in town for a few days but that I worked for Michael Matz and would love, please if possible, to see Dynaformer. A very nice guy led me around as he was doing evening feed. I was able to meet Smarty Jones, Medallist and Dynaformer. He had the halter with chain on and such but I got within 6 feet and took a pic of him. I thought he was lovely but having ridden plenty of his kids I would be unlikely to own one. Point Given He was an add on that I got to see at Three Chimneys as well

Congaree - Many don’t know this but Congaree was related to my horse “Unbridled Lad.” He is out of Lad’s half sister “Mari’s Sheba.” Many moons ago the lovely folks at Stonerside reacted beyond my wildest dreams when I emailed to say I would be in town and would it be possible to see any of Lad’s family? I am not joking…I met Congaree at Adena. And then I was given a 4 hour (yes, really) tour of Stonerside. I met Lad’s mother, his sister (Congaree’s dam) her current foal that year and a whole host of other mares and foals. Chilukki was among them and I am so glad to have met her before she died far too soon. I had a ball. I met all of Lad’s kin and it meant so much to me. I have pics I took of his mom and it made my heart so full.

When I went down to the makeover in 2015 I improved on the Lad family trip with the “Gin Joint” family extravaganza. I literally met all the members of Gin’s family. His mother, his father (Macho Uno, who I adore!!) his sister, his half sibling weanling out of his mom and a sister’s weanling. And his father’s other son Mucho Macho Man who was regularly galloped by a friend of mine. I mean it was just awesome and we were at Calumet for 2 hours easy and at Adena for 1hr 30 easily.

Va Stallions:

These guys were the most impactful since I worked at the training track and one of my best friends worked at Blue Ridge Stud. I got to see babies from there as they came to the track.

Chenin Blanc (* - not a Tb but still) hopefully what I am about to say is understood by my fellow horsewomen… I would have fallen hard for the human equivalent of Chenin. When he bred a mare it was sexy and romantic as hell. No force, no aggression, no lack of patience. It was hot. LOL Really.

And in opposition to that we had the little famous bastard that I rode twice at the track; Genuine Reward . He was an absolute jerk. A horrible legacy from his amazing dam. His first breeding he went in for the oral sex, scraped up the mares head a bunch and was unruly. This continued and believe me there are solid reasons for why he ended up a pasture breeding stallion in Wyoming or wherever. He was just awful, but he had reportedly never been corrected much as he was the holy grail of colts, out of Genuine Risk, by Rahy. But it was a great lesson in discipline and why it’s crucial.

WV Stallion:

Tidal Wave I haven’t seen him at stud but I rode him for a long time in NY and he was a fun horse. A little tough, little sassy but so much fun. I enjoy watching his kids on the track as they too become hard knockers like their father.

Not from his stallion days…

I got to know Afleet Alex pretty well. At Delaware our barns weren’t far apart and once the Preakness happened we all sort of bonded. I won’t forget the last time I saw him. They had scratched from something, I forget what and they told me. The assistant suggested that he might be ‘done’ and that I should come see him. I went to his barn and they let me go in his stall and feed him copious amounts of treats. I mean that sucker was a mint hound and it was so kind of them to let me have some time. I mean he’s a big part of my biggest day in racing. And I love so many of his foals.

Em

4 Likes
#62

Re: Round Table. I saw him several times, and never had any issues with be able to pet him. Seemed fine. However…he did have the unusual habit of self mutilation. Without the cage over his muzzle, he would spin and try to bite his sides…and was sometimes successful. Im not sure I ever did see him without him wearing his muzzle cage.

#63

I had heard he was a self-mutilator. It’s too bad- but it’s nice to hear he was good to be around.

#64

This is why COTH is cool- being able to get first hand accounts of things! Thanks to everyone who has replied so far!!

3 Likes
#65

^^^^ I agree. I have enjoyed reading this thread. :yes:

3 Likes
#66

I have a book around here somewhere, that I bought in the Louisville airport some years back, that is about Storm Cat. I remember hearing he was pretty tough.

Who was the horse that they had to use a hook on a pole to catch in his stall- I do not remember…

#67

As a horse crazy kid (with zero experience around Real Live Horses) I was indulged by my mother with several visits to Calumet farm. One time I sneaked away from the barns and the tour to see if I could get close to any of the horses in the paddocks.

I decided one horse sequestered away in a paddock by himself must be lonely. I trudged a fair distance to the enclosure, enticed the lonely one to the fence, was able to stroke his neck without incident.

Now I wasn’t thinking TB, race horse, stallion, anything other than Horse. Certainly had no clue it might be dangerous.

Then I focused on my equine friend’s halter and read the name on the brass plate.

Don’t know how he was to handle during his long career. He wasn’t retired to stud until he became the first horse to accrue career earnings of a million dollars at age six. He was the last Triple Crown winner, in 1945, before Secretariat.

Citation, that day at least, seemed to me, and still seems, to be a Very Nice stallion.

10 Likes
#68

Oh my God! What a marvelous memory!

#69

What a great thread. Especially with the contributions from some folks who have a wealth of first hand experience and impressions to share. I’ve minimal to offer, but will share about one nice VA stallion I met in person, a few years ago. Friend or Foe. He’s an AP Indy grandson, and made a good impression :slight_smile: AP Indy’s passing, and this thread made me think of that visit again.

He was out in his pasture, and I went to see him with a friend. “Friendly” (I seem to remember that was what they called him), came right over to the fence. He was personable, with a very attractive face and lovely eye. A little mouthy - but it was just a matter of being an intact boy. He was not vicious or dangerous at all, he just was a stallion, and it seemed wise to pay attention :wink: We could pat him though, and have a nice visit without concern. He was a relaxed and confidant type, and has nice presence. He came across as a quality and classy stallion, who also had an amateur friendly brain to a certain extent. And his conformation made a much better impression in person, than from a few of the pictures I’ve seen online. He looks a bit upright behind in some of the photos I’ve looked at. In person, he was a very harmonious, well put together, athletic boy. Definitely a substantial TB, but not huge. And definitely came across as a horse who was very comfortable in his own skin, in a nice way. I liked the way he was proportioned better than some other AP Indy grand kids and great grandkids I’ve seen.

@Texarkana - I seem to recollect that you’ve mentioned Eastern Echo (a Damascus son) in other threads. Did you ever meet him in person? Swiss Yodeler is still alive and standing over in West Virginia. He’s in his 20’s now… but has a pretty remarkable pedigree for sport. I thought Eastern Echo’s offspring were supposed to be quite nice sport horses, and generally ammy friendly.

Golden Years is also standing in West Virginia, and he’s QUITE stunning in pictures. He’s a Not for Love son, and Oh Say (by Hoist the Flag) is broodmare sire. Didn’t Hoist the Flag have a nasty temperament? Is he known to have passed it on? I thought he died relatively young.

#70

Gosh, it’s been so many years since I saw Eastern Echo in person. He died in the early 00s. He was always at the end of a handler’s shank, so I don’t have a lot of personality insight that I can recall. You know how most of the time they stand there and either look bored or annoyed and may or may not let you touch them. But I’ve loved everything I’ve ever worked with by him. Fun, athletic, attractive horses who were generally very tractable. Did I mention athletic?

I can’t believe Swiss Yodeler is still alive and active.

I used to think Damascus was overhyped in pedigrees. Then I purchased a Damascus granddaughter; she is by Crusader Sword. She is something special. :yes: My girl is 26 now and I hate that I didn’t get her earlier in life.

1 Like
#71

Was that Spinning World? He’s still in Australia as far as I know; he’d be 27 so maybe he’s mellowed. He’s wearing a muzzle in every post-retirement picture I have seen of him. It makes him look like an equine Hannibal Lecter.

#72

Thanks- but I think that this was an American stallion…

Hannibal Lecter indeed!!

#73

I remember seeing a photo of Spinning World …here it is https://www.behindthebitblog.com/200…ions-ever.html
It is (sometimes) difficult to tell if better management could have made a difference with some of these guys.
There is a thread about the meanies here, can’t vouch for the accuracy. https://www.thoroughbredchampions.co…=3190&start=10

Again I think stallion management has made great strides, but some like Dynaformer were managed well and were just naturally aggressive.

I remember when Corslew was put down after savaging his farm owner.https://www.pedigreequery.com/corslew I know I’ve read the more first hand account somewhere…Click on the exclamation point at the top of the pedigree.

Here it is https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac…tallion-attack

#74

You’re both right.

The link Skydy posted had a link about Spinning World’s pedigree on Pedigree Query. On the info button… he was retired to Ashford but ended up in Australia at Coolmore’s stud down there. Was still there and covering mares as of 2014. (Quick Google search)

Em

#75

This may be too far off the topic on this thread but…With the hope that someone reading this thread knows more about Roanoke Island and/ or Rock Talk: I was so very lucky that the first horse I ever bought ($500!) was a 16.3 OTTB stallion by Roanoke Island out of a Rock Talk mare. He had the best temperament and was athletic as all get out. He could be bred and shown the same day with no one the wiser. He was turned out with a herd of geldings, was always polite, could be hacked with mares and got this very amateur rider started in eventing and up to Prelim before he was injured in turnout.

Are any other horses out there from those lines known for athleticism and temperament?

#76

Just a question. Why do you make the assumption that the bad temperaments of these horses was caused by “mismanagement?”

#77

I remembered one mentioned in Josh Pons’ Country Life Diary, so I went back and looked it up. Lyllos. He injured several people, and in the end, the farm euthanized him because they knew he would hurt or kill another one given time.

#78

I’m not Skydy, so I don’t want to answer for her. But this is my take on management.

I’m not one to point fingers about “mismanagement” in the sense the stallion was handled “wrong” or “poorly.” Thoroughbreds are overwhelmingly handled by professionals every moment of their lifetimes. Sure, you have the occasional bad egg working with the horses, but generally from foaling to racing to the breeding shed you have nothing but highly qualified individuals.

But something I do see is different handling and horse care philosophies making a big impacts on temperament. For example, turnout. Many big breeding farms give their stallions a lot of turnout-- upwards of 12 hrs a day, often in all weather. Other farms follow a routine more similar to a show barn, turning their stallions out for a few highly supervised hours only when the footing is good. The reasons for either approach are perfectly valid. Most horses do better with more turnout, but it comes with considerable risk for such valuable animals and you can get the occasional weirdo who can’t handle it. And every now and then you get a stallion where one approach or the other makes a WORLD of difference to their overall temperament. There is a stallion who was mentioned up thread who was a rank and dangerous SOB until he went to a farm where he lived out 24/7 with shared fencelines, which dramatically changed his personality for the better. Of course, it doesn’t always work that way.

Manners are another area where expectations vary greatly. A farm with a lot of highly experienced handlers might be willing to overlook behaviors that most show/pleasure people would consider “bad manners.” This is because you always have experienced help and the risk of injury to horse or handler is low. These “bad manners” might even get interpreted as a “bad temperament” by someone with different manners expectations, when it’s really just a matter of what a horse has been allowed or not allowed to do.

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#79

I didn’t. :slight_smile:

I said it is hard to tell if better management might have made a difference with “some” of them. Some bad actors have done better at a new farm with different management.

Of course, some horses (like Corslew) won’t change at all.

#80

Interesting article about Bolt d’Oro

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-latest/bolt-doro-back-on-track-after-steps-taken-to-deal-with-aggressive-nature/425525

Article mentions both Halo and Dynaformer.

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