Teaching a dog horse- sense?

[netg]

[QUOTE=Big_Grey_hunter;7965886]
This is the one circumstance where my dog does NOT get a warning buzz, or any verbal input from me. I don’t want him to avoid horses because I tell him to, I want him to think horse=shock. Basically, pick what boundaries you want the dog to avoid, and shock the seconds he gets within that boundary. Don’t warn him, don’t buzz him, don’t tell him to move, don’t praise him afterwords, just shock until he’s out of the ‘range’ you decided on. Be consistent and don’t make the boundaries overly vague.

For my dog, getting right behind a horse or going under a fence gets a shock. I don’t shock for approaching the front of a horse or the side, because he’s trained to heel next to the horses (he trail rides with me) and that would be too confusing. He gets shocked for going under fences, because the ONLY time he is allowed in/out of a pasture is if I invite him through the gate. That way, I can leave him at the gate to go get my horse without worrying about him following me if I don’t trust the horses in the pasture. It wouldn’t be fair for him to sometimes be allowed under fences and other times get shocked.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this, but am not sure about the tricky factor of if he gets close to my horse with the fence between them when I’m not around. He would get a warning buzz then… So far the only time he has gotten through a fence has been yesterday when the battery on his collar died and my horse was playing while I was out there, so the invisible fence has kept him in otherwise when he didn’t have incentive to test if it would give him a warning beep or not. I don’t believe there’s a no-warning setting I could use to keep him from getting too close to my horse. The point about not buzzing if he goes to the front solves that concern of mine when my horse decides he wants dog kisses

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Big_Grey_hunter;7965886]
This is the one circumstance where my dog does NOT get a warning buzz, or any verbal input from me. I don’t want him to avoid horses because I tell him to, I want him to think horse=shock. Basically, pick what boundaries you want the dog to avoid, and shock the seconds he gets within that boundary. Don’t warn him, don’t buzz him, don’t tell him to move, don’t praise him afterwords, just shock until he’s out of the ‘range’ you decided on. Be consistent and don’t make the boundaries overly vague.

For my dog, getting right behind a horse or going under a fence gets a shock. I don’t shock for approaching the front of a horse or the side, because he’s trained to heel next to the horses (he trail rides with me) and that would be too confusing. He gets shocked for going under fences, because the ONLY time he is allowed in/out of a pasture is if I invite him through the gate. That way, I can leave him at the gate to go get my horse without worrying about him following me if I don’t trust the horses in the pasture. It wouldn’t be fair for him to sometimes be allowed under fences and other times get shocked.[/QUOTE]

To be honest, I really question whether this dog knows exactly what the handler is training, but might just be unusually compliant. If you do not not give verbal commands, I wonder if a dog can really understand that approaching from the front = ok, but approaching from behind = horse are scary…versus reprimands for fences/boundaries, etc.

I use e-collars on my own dogs to reinforce known commands. E.g. I say “come” and if my dog does not come immediately he gets a beep, and then a shock. He knows what it means, and his lack of immediate response gets a punishment.

Using an e-collar to suggest a scary outcome is tricky. You can use it sparingly – e.g. if you go under that fence, you will get a zap. The dogs typically equate the boundary/object with the zap. So…in theory you could train a dog not to go under a fenceline (and I have done this myself), but you have not given a command. (This is how boundary fences with electric work).

But, beyond that - I don’t know that I think the dog can necessarily figure out the other cues (go in front, don’t go behind, don’t go under that fence) without verbal commands. I don’t think you can reasonably mix the two – (verbal, versus structural / nonverbal) cues for every dog; not without some solid training to be sure they understand.

So I would say you either need to set a boundary and beyond/under/over is OFF LIMITS and gets a shock…OR you need to establish exact verbal cues – heel, stay, down – and use the e-collar to reinforce those.

Of course, it’s possible that someone may have a dog that can do both (or, at least, does not test the boundaries even if they are not 100% certain of the request)…but I would not expect that response.