Any tips for getting my new girl to canter more willingly under saddle? A little background. 
Her prior owner showed her a lot in pleasure driving shows. Here’s a pic. 
She also trail rode her alot, but I don’t think she did much ring work under saddle. Should I start by teaching her to canter on the longe and hope to teach her the word command?
And don’t worry, I’ve never driven before, and definitely plan on learning with her. So I’ll be back with more questions this summer! :yes:
What’s she doing/not doing now?
Are you sure she’s sound? (does she canter out in the field?)
That you’re asking by giving correct aids?
When I first ask from the walk she does (kindof) start to jump into the canter and then trots off. 
And if I ask from a trot, she goes into a nice extended trot. I’ve been able to chase her into it a couple of times, but the impression I have is of when I first took lessons years ago on school horses and they were all of the “make me” mentality. :lol:
As for aids, I hold the outside rein, bend with the inside rein and ask with the outside leg. I’m wondering if maybe my leg isn’t hitting her low enough on her sides (I’m not short, but she has a huge barrel). I’m thinking maybe a nubby spur?
I’d defer to any further tips from Thomas, since he is far more experienced than I, but my Amish buggy horse didn’t “know how” to canter at first, because she’d been required to only trot in harness. She could “run” in the field, but not canter, say, in a circle, with a rider, with a nice relaxed rhythm.
We did many weeks on the lunge before asking her under saddle, and by then she knew the word. We started in big spaces (a large flat paddock, or up a long steady hill on the trail), just getting her to go forward on a loose rein at first, then gradually asked for circles and contact over time. She needed to build some muscle and coordination and balance before it started to get easy for her.
Thank you tfp! 
That’s pretty much what I planned on doing. :yes: She does canter out in the field, so I know she knows how. 
The few times I have been able to chase her into the canter though, I can tell she’s not real comfortable with it, especially being in the ring, so I’ll try her out in the pasture instead. Thanks for the help! 
My pony is the same way. He goes from trot to trot like hell, to trot so fast I almost fall off. I know he can canter he does it on the lunge and in the field. We’re working on it…
We still get the occasional “Amish road trot” under saddle, especially on awkward terrain where she’s just not quite balanced or if she is distracted or tense about something. It is hell to post to (updownupdownupdownup…)! I try not to “chase” that into a canter, but rather slow down, re-establish a good soft trot (even slowing to a walk until we are reorganized if necessary). When she is holding a nice trot, then I ask for the canter again.
Rosie did not really like to canter when she was younger!
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1540169548071656457rYLwgX
Time (years!) and patience have made her canter much better! :lol: I would try lunging her in a large circle until she seems better balanced! Under saddle will take while! :lol: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2792372020071656457lxMrYV
Just the other day I was cantering her and Kali remarked how much better it was! :yes: Light and lovely with those size 5 feet not so stabby!!??:no:
I would strongly suggest that you ride her into the canter or work her on long lines. Either method will be more helpful to the horse learning to canter comfortably with NO VEHICLE attached, than trying to teach her hitched. You are MUCH MORE likely to scare her or get hurt, “chasing” her into a canter.
From the few clues here, I am also in the thinking “She doesn’t know how to do ANY controlled canter!” You can’t ask for a nice cadence and expect round circles if she has a hard time cantering in an arena or on long lines.
Some horses just don’t do much running or cantering out in the field, which will add to the problem when you want those gaits under saddle or on the long lines. Horse has poor body skills, doesn’t know HOW to manage the parts to DO the gait. She sounds like these gaits were not ever asked for by the handler when horse was used, riding or driving.
We had a couple like that, just NEVER cantered as youngsters. Made for a LOT of time in the ring, teaching them HOW to manage their bodies, collection, extensions, leads, changes, being nimble on rough ground, because they never had practiced out in the field.
I would suggest you get in some practice with her at the gaits and asking for them, with the long lines and long whip to push her forward, or under saddle. Spurs are not the tool, she has no understanding or training to KNOW what you are asking of her with your legs. Probably will just confuse her or make her REALLY mad getting poked like that. You don’t want her mad, then they fight back!! Not her fault she is ignorant of aids.
I also would not suggest round penning, you WANT to be touching her somehow, this is what you do when driving. She needs the touching part gotten from riding or long lines. Even having been shown driving, I think horse has just done baby level of training. So I would back up, go thru the steps to reinforce her knowledge, until I am getting the prompt responses needed, all gaits, out on the lines. Practice your halts, reverse, transitions until she crisp, knows YOUR voice and commands, responds well. Then you can go back to doing some driving work.
You need to find any fix the holes in her training, before you can expect her to move up to higher levels of driving, with the skills they demand of her. Any local carriage Driving Trainers you could go over and have a few lessons with? They might be able to help you thru the steps as you learn how deep her driving training is. Might find some of those holes that got skipped before, so you can fix them.
I thought of the long lining but was not sure how she would get her to canter etc!!
[QUOTE=Gunnar;4125325]
I thought of the long lining but was not sure how she would get her to canter etc!![/QUOTE]
That is what your long lashed whip does, reaches out and touches them, no matter how LONG the lines are. Not whacking them, just a flick so they KNOW you CAN reach them. You ask, they respond or get flicked. Response is NOT optional for horse, and you want response to happen on the FIRST request.
I’ve often come across people who tell me their horse “can’t canter”. In truth though the vast majority can indeed canter but their rider isn’t actually asking them for a canter. Most often the rider is rocking to and fro as if on a rocking horse and with a stiff waist. This upsets the horse’s balance and makes him clumsy or else stay in or fall back to an ungainly trot. That coupled with heavy unyielding hands normally holds the horse back in trot. The hand full of others have been lame and in genuine pain and as such don’t want to.
A canter is an easy pace for a horse partly because the 3 time rythm seems better suited to the rythm of his breathing than does the rythm of the trot. In the wild the horse tends to use walk or canter much more freely and readily than the trot. Where working horses cover long distance e.g. herding cattle and sheep etc, it’s mostly done at canter. It might well be because it’s more comfortable for the rider but for sure the fact that the horse goes freely and well at canter has played a part. Likewise from choice a horse will go into canter up hills. It’s just easier for them.
I prefer to get horses started in canter on long lines and then under saddle. For a young unbalanced horse that is likely to throw in a sort of buck whilst it sorts its legs out, if you ask it as it’s going up a hill and get your weight forward you’ll help it. (Of course that is dependent on where you live - if you’re in Norfolk you have no chance! No hills!!)
If your rein handling isn’t good, light and quick enough then don’t even attempt it under long lines. Instead go to a single lunge line.
Once the horse has learned to go forward at the trot with regularity and good stride and no loss of rythm and is well settled, then you’re ready to move to canter. Only then.
A horse on the lunge will nearly always go freely into a canter but, like the walk, the pace can lose sequence easily and so should only be introduced when there’s balance and impulsion so the horse can travel freely forward in a 3 time working canter and still remain on the track of the circle. For this, it’s necessary for the quarters to be slightly lowered so that the hind legs can be brought sufficiently under the weight of the body for the forehad to be lightened and raised.
As in the trot the inside hind leg should come forward and slightly under the body and in line with the circle. This helps to transfer the horse’s weight towards the outside shoulder and gives more freedom to the leading inside leg. Again the horse will use his head and neck to balance and turn slightly away and inwards towards the leading leg, thus producing a slight muscular bend throughout the whole length which helps him to negotiate the circle despite th elack of lateral flexion in his spine. In bending his head and neck to the inside of the circle he’ll make contact with the outer side rein (if you’re using them) and accustom himself to the passive, outside rein which plays a part in ridden canter work.
I personally prefer to work without side reins to eliminate any possibility of the horse drawing back or falling into a trot.
To ask under saddle from trot: (because I didn’t understand your description at all. But after all riding is a practical skill and I don’t normally do this either. I normally say “go for some lessons”. So you’ve indulged me in something I never do )
You need a stronger thrust to launch the weight of the horse’s body into the longer lasting unsupported phase. To prepare the horse sinks a little further onto the diagnonal that is to be the main support in the canter. At the same time he brings down the opposite foreleg earlier than he would for a trot. This makes 3 legs available for the upward throw. And he can reach forward with the other hindleg and delay putting it down till he is ready to land on it after the unsupported phase of the first canter stride.
So relaxed trot first - that makes it easier and more natural for the horse when he wants to cover the ground.
Make up your mind which lead you’re going to ask him on. Each lead calls for a different set of aids.
To remove any ambiguity when you first ask, initiate the canter on a circle whilst the horse is turning. He’ll lead naturally with the inside leg on the circle, so right foreleg when turning right and left foreleg when turning left.
So suppose you’re starting with a circle right at sitting trot. Not too large - 10 or 20 metres. Get the horse trotting forward freely and regular rythm. When you first turn into the circle, your left leg will be a little behind the girth, but when the turn is well established your leg may return to the girth. The hors’s head is turned a little to the right so you can just see the corner of his eye. Your hands are in direct rein position, the left having given a little more than the right.
Practice changing the speed over the ground, alternately driving forward with your seat for a few strides and then surreptitiously shortening the rein for a few strides whilst you increase the pressure on the bit. make sure you can produce noticeable changes in speed over the ground. Now start to build up impulsion by keeping up the reain pressure instead of at once giving with the rein when you start to drive forward with your seat. The horse needs to be “wound up” between the drive of your seat and the restraint of your hands. The aim is to reach a stage where he’ll surge forward as soon as you relax the pressure on the rein.
Only then are you ready to ask for canter. Pay attention to the horse’s shoulders so you’re clear which diagonal is being used for support. Remember it’s the outside that forms the principal support. For a canter on right lead, the outside consists of the left foreleg and the right hindleg. At point of transition from trot you want the horse to reach forward with his left hindleg. So apply your left leg behind the girth. - Your timing has to be right.
Build up alertness and impulsion, give a warning and at the moment of decision apply simutaneously the aids with seat, legs, weight change AND reins. The warning is drawing your outside leg back but with no pressure to the horse’s side. The just draws his attention to his outside hindleg. The moment of decision for a canter on right lead occurs just as the horse is about to land on the outside diagnonal. That’s why you have to make your mind up and get it right on time. Then just as you are coming down fo rthe bump on the outside diagnonal, you brace your back to thrust your seat bones forward against the saddle and squeeze with both legs at the same time and ease the pressure on the rein. Square your shoulders. Do not attempt to urge the horse forward by leaning forward.
If you can’t do that then away you go for lessons. :winkgrin:
Hard To Follow Thomas’s post…
I just want to add a few “quirks” from my experience…
Teaching a horse a nice controlled balanced canter starts at the lunge. Practice practice practice until he/she becomes comfortable at a circle and knows the “signal” distinctly from the trot command.
Then, get on and do the same thing.
My driving pony would do the “fast shuffle” instead of canter too, at first. I learned to sit back more before asking for the canter and it helped a lot.
Back in the days I was taught driving, it was a big no-no to ever canter in harness. Cantering was for riding only. Along with the typical voice and leg positions, I taught my driving pony her own signal to canter: grasping just a small piece of her mane in my fingers. Eventually, that small signal overruled all other commands.
She never once cantered while driving.
We’ve had quite a few postings previously about cantering or not cantering a driving horse whilst it’s in harness and if the OP wants to read that then a quick search on the driving threads will trawl those up.
I suspect I’m quite a lot older than Susan too… or she’s maybe just aged better than me… or had an easier life ;). I was taught to canter driving horses when I was a child. So I do canter driving horses and when I put them to harness I always let them experience the canter with the carriage so they know what to expect and don’t panic if they’re ever in a spook and scoot situation. Though in my case I often canter my harness horses anyway. But then I do cones and hazards and also STEEP hills. I have a voice signal for canter too and which I teach under long reins before moving to put to in harness. Like most drivers the canter signal is one that you’re never likely to encounter by accident and mine now is a very animated and lively “yip, yip, yip, yip”
The idea that if you don’t teach a horse to canter in harness it never will, is absolutely absurd. A canter is a totally natural gait for a horse and as I said earlier, it’s a gait of choice. A horse is a flight and fright animal. If a horse in harness get’s a fright it most definitely has the potential to take a few canter strides. Those that have NEVER had a harness horse go into canter don’t achieve that because the horse has been trained not to canter. It’s purely good luck and perhaps just down to the fact that they’ve not really met any severe tests or trials for the horse… yet.
However we’re talking in this post just about getting a horse to canter under saddle. I honestly think from what we’ve been told so far that it’s rider error and the rider isn’t actually asking for a canter or at least the horse isn’t knowing that’s what the rider is asking for.
To get a horse to canter under saddle, you ‘merely’ have to give it the right aids. The horse can’t avoid cantering if you ask it properly and give it every assistance. As a rider you should merely help it to achieve it. Hold it back with the reins. Not allow it to balance and use itself and you stop it. So rather than thinking about how you get it to canter, it’s my opinion that the rider needs to consider whether he/she knows the correct canter aid and also what he/she is doing to stop it from transitioning from trot to canter.
The final posting I’m thinking is wayyyy to simplistic. That’s no way for a rider to ask for canter! Much better learn to ride and ask properly and effectively rather than giving the horse some sort of vagary and hope it’s got a clue. Though clearly sitting back might well give the horse the impulsion from the seat that it needs and “holding the mane” might give the release or rein pressure required but one thing I do know. That’s no way for a rider to ask for canter. I’ve never yet seen a good rider ask for transition up by just “grabbing the mane” !
Interesting… :winkgrin:
Thank you for your very well thought-out post Thomas. I really appreciate the time you spent on it. Just so you understand, it’s not that I don’t know how to make a horse canter, it’s that I’m having trouble making THIS horse canter. I’m used to OTTB’s that LOVE to canter and except for teaching them proper transitions, I never had to spend much time encouraging them to canter.
This girl is different, and I assume it was because as some others have said, she’s probably not been asked to canter while driving. So I assume she hasn’t, and therefore, is confused by my asking her to. She also hasn’t been ridden in an arena very much, so the riding aids seem pretty new to her.
I do question your logic about my not asking properly. I’m not denying that this may be the case. However, if the mare has never been asked to canter under saddle, how could it possibly know the aids for the canter? Is my ignorance hanging out? :winkgrin:
Trust me, providing she’s a healthy sound horse, do what I suggested and she’ll canter.
Think of riding as purely helping a horse to do what comes naturally. The aids you give move the horse’s point of balance or to put it another way the horse adapts it’s movements and response to what you do. It’s not possible for it to go wrong if you get it right. You change your balance and he uses his power. Simple. He has to rebalance himself and alter what he does because you alter what you do. All schooling does (should do) is get him to respond easily and readily and willingly precisely when you want it. Some horses (youngsters or say heavy cobs) will have poorer natural balance so you have to help them more but that’s all (!) there is to it.
If you want to get someone to take a short video of you either lunging her or riding her and asking for canter I can tell you more precisely what you need to do.
Internet lessons
If she knows the word on a longe its simple to transfer it over to riding. Make sure she is very fluent in canter on the longe first. She needs to be able to go from a trot into a canter,from a walk to a canter,from a halt to a canter. This girl should not be in any way confused at what you are asking. She should know what CANTER means.
Riding if nec. and you speed up the trot (notice I didn’t say extend it), you can adjust the balance so she has no choice but to canter. You are actually throwing the balance of the horse into a canter. Once she understands she can actually do it, then she will do it on command.
Teaching canter is important that you teach them fluently. It’s not easy, but can be done.
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