I have never seen this method before so I was shocked and horrified to see these pics come across my FB. I worry about the foal’s neck, the donkey’s neck. What if the baby rears up and gets a leg hung up in the lead rope? There are so many things I can see going wrong here. For those that use this method, could you explain the reasoning behind it. We have always taught our foals to lead young and aside from a handful of foals who had a melt down or two, ours have always picked it up well with out even a bat of the eye. Plus I personally like using the lesson (which is usually one of the first things they are asked to do) as a foundation of trust and respect. They learn that even though I am asking them for something they are not sure about, it always ends in a good way and they build confidence about the next new things we will ask of them.
Pictures are public
Stupid people do stupid things.
Some of them own animals.
What can you do.
Cowboys have been doing this for a looong time. To each there own I guess. I owned one horse that was trained this way…he lived to be 30 and was the best horse I ever owned. The donkeys will react to the foal and I have yet to see any injury with this training. This teaches the foal to give to pressure real fast and they tend to be better behaved with donkeys. I have seen my fair share of injuries from people trying to get the same results-both human and foal.
There is a lot of info on this type of lead training, please look into it before bashing it off of a few photos.
[QUOTE=melhorse;7209335]
Cowboys have been doing this for a looong time. To each there own I guess. I owned one horse that was trained this way…he lived to be 30 and was the best horse I ever owned. The donkeys will react to the foal and I have yet to see any injury with this training. This teaches the foal to give to pressure real fast and they tend to be better behaved with donkeys. I have seen my fair share of injuries from people trying to get the same results-both human and foal.
There is a lot of info on this type of lead training, please look into it before bashing it off of a few photos.[/QUOTE]
I don’t feel like I bashed it at all, in fact I ask for more information from people who have used this method. While it is not one I would choose to use, I was more curious as the reasoning behind it for those that do.
[QUOTE=melhorse;7209335]
Cowboys have been doing this for a looong time. To each there own I guess. I owned one horse that was trained this way…he lived to be 30 and was the best horse I ever owned. The donkeys will react to the foal and I have yet to see any injury with this training. This teaches the foal to give to pressure real fast and they tend to be better behaved with donkeys. I have seen my fair share of injuries from people trying to get the same results-both human and foal.
There is a lot of info on this type of lead training, please look into it before bashing it off of a few photos.[/QUOTE]
I think those photos clearly show the injury that can (and does) occur with these types of methods, aside from the unnecessary mental stress on the foal and the hapless donkey.
Along with all other injuries that could occur with a foal freaking out, flailing, and falling into stuff, their necks are VERY easily injured, which is why foals shouldn’t be tied hard. Seeing a foal falling back and pulling hard on his neck like you see in these pics makes my skin crawl.
Halter breaking foals by hand is not hard.
Seeing pictures of a terrified foal, fighting and panicking, tied to an unwilling and stress-out donkey eliciting the comments on that photo with people laughing it up is sick.
This gives extra meaning to “broken” horse. Not for me, or mine.
Actually, on large ranches this is a common practice - so I’m told. Where there are a lot of animals it speeds up the process.
I was at a racehorse convention in Texas and one breeder told me that was the method they used on their racehorses. Teaches the young ones there are no two ways about it. Where the donkey goes, the baby goes, when the donkey lies down, the baby is stuck. If accidents were common I doubt they would use that method, and the donkey is one who knows his job.
Donkeys have been used to break bulls and 4-H calves for years. I initially got my first donkey to train my calves but she was so little and cute I never had the heart. I ended up figuring out the calf thing myself so never did do it.
But donkeys are relentless and brilliant and if they make up their mind, it is a done deal. I have had them for 30 years now and really appreciate their character, not for everyone but I think they have taught me patience and the ability to convince an animal it is their idea.
Would I tie my Wb baby to one…noooo. Halter training is easy compared to everything else and just takes a bit of time.
Is it cruel? Well something could happen but many typical “western” practices have good results most of the time and if the “baby” doesn’t have the right brain, many don’t want it around anyway. A culling process?
May be because of the different approaches Qh’s ended up having very good temperaments and are capable of putting up with tons of stuff. I live in a province that has amazing jumping talent and facilities and also has a huge QH/ranch culture. You see the round pen trainers at the big shows and I often wonder if those methods would work as well on a WB? I some how really doubt it.
This is not all that uncommon, as mentioned. I’ve seen this method on large ranches, and when I’ve seen it done I’ve never seen the babies stressed or injured. However, they weren’t little 4, 5 or 6 month olds, either. They were big, pretty much rarely handled 8, 9 and 10 month old youngsters. We also have a big, very successful Quarter Horse racing client and the farm that raises his youngsters uses this method, too. I wouldn’t do it, but I can honestly say I’ve never seen a major issues caused by it. I’m sure some have been injured like this, but I’m also sure babies get injured (across methods) being tied for the first time, or trailering for the first time, etc. I didn’t look at these particular photos, and they could possibly be total yahoos, but as with a lot of methods, if you are careful and experienced it can probably work.
[QUOTE=melhorse;7209335]
Cowboys have been doing this for a looong time. To each there own I guess. I owned one horse that was trained this way…he lived to be 30 and was the best horse I ever owned. The donkeys will react to the foal and I have yet to see any injury with this training. This teaches the foal to give to pressure real fast and they tend to be better behaved with donkeys. I have seen my fair share of injuries from people trying to get the same results-both human and foal.
There is a lot of info on this type of lead training, please look into it before bashing it off of a few photos.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, its not that big of a deal. Makes a good donkey worth his weight. I have never seen one injured either. Good deal for stud-ie colts.
It’s really dumb to do with foals.
It just shows how lousy of a trainer you are when you need an ass to do your training for you!
I’ve seen this done with a bull and a donkey. The donkey was old and was down for three days afterwards. Then he disappeared. 
Stupid!
[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;7209489]
Actually, on large ranches this is a common practice - so I’m told. Where there are a lot of animals it speeds up the process.
I was at a racehorse convention in Texas and one breeder told me that was the method they used on their racehorses. Teaches the young ones there are no two ways about it. Where the donkey goes, the baby goes, when the donkey lies down, the baby is stuck. If accidents were common I doubt they would use that method, and the donkey is one who knows his job.[/QUOTE]
- We can do a lot better, and IMO, the end does not justify the means in this case, because we can accomplish the exact same thing with less distress and injury potential. This is 2013. We have moved beyond brute force.
- Some do get hurt, and that’s usually too-bad-so-sad. Stupid horse, etc.
It’s the same as a lot of “western” techniques I have seen. There are good trainers who use good methods, and a lot of dark ages yahoos.
Horse doesn’t tie? Snub them to a post and let them fight it out. He bashed his eye or broke his neck? Well, then he was dumb and we didn’t want him anyway.
Horse doesn’t give to the bit or follow his head? Tie their head around and let them fight it out. He flipped and busted his head? Well, then he was dumb and we didn’t want him anyway.
Foal doesn’t lead? Tie him to a donkey and let him fight it out. He injured himself throwing himself into a fence? Serves him right for fighting the rope. Donkey got hurt? Who cares, it’s just a donkey.
People around here do this crap and it drives me batpoop crazy.
[QUOTE=CrowneDragon;7209890]
- We can do a lot better, and IMO, the end does not justify the means in this case, because we can accomplish the exact same thing with less distress and injury potential. This is 2013. We have moved beyond brute force.
- Some do get hurt, and that’s usually too-bad-so-sad. Stupid horse, etc.
It’s the same as a lot of “western” techniques I have seen. There are good trainers who use good methods, and a lot of dark ages yahoos.
Horse doesn’t tie? Snub them to a post and let them fight it out. He bashed his eye or broke his neck? Well, then he was dumb and we didn’t want him anyway.
Horse doesn’t give to the bit or follow his head? Tie their head around and let them fight it out. He flipped and busted his head? Well, then he was dumb and we didn’t want him anyway.
Foal doesn’t lead? Tie him to a donkey and let him fight it out. He injured himself throwing himself into a fence? Serves him right for fighting the rope. Donkey got hurt? Who cares, it’s just a donkey.
People around here do this crap and it drives me batpoop crazy.[/QUOTE]
Your characterization is ignorant. That is hardly what is in most peoples minds. But I know it is entertaining to think that you are either a saint, or have evil intentions.
I have known some to even tie the foals to the dam. If you have ever had pack horses or a pack string, you would know about tying several horses head to tail, and how important it is they learn how not to bet tangled up. If your horrified by tying a foal to a donkey, you obviously have no roots in ranching, or horses that work for a living. I don’t know how many eventing and dressage barns I go to, where the horses don’t tie, or even lead that well.
Pics are gone. Did anybody keep a copy?
I’m guessing I would hate it.
I have a donkey. He’s a quiet, sensitive, gentle, timid soul. He would hate having a foal “caught” on him.
Wouldn’t wish him on the foal either.
I agree with CrowneDragon: We can do better than this.
[QUOTE=Wirt;7210037]
Your characterization is ignorant. That is hardly what is in most peoples minds. But I know it is entertaining to think that you are either a saint, or have evil intentions.
I have known some to even tie the foals to the dam. If you have ever had pack horses or a pack string, you would know about tying several horses head to tail, and how important it is they learn how not to bet tangled up. If your horrified by tying a foal to a donkey, you obviously have no roots in ranching, or horses that work for a living. I don’t know how many eventing and dressage barns I go to, where the horses don’t tie, or even lead that well.[/QUOTE]
My characterization is not ignorant, because I have worked with and for these people. (Wonder why I quit?)
If I can teach a horse to lead/tie/hobble by introducing it in such a way so that they don’t fight and flail, is that not better??
Cindyg, it was pics of a foal tied to a donkey, panicked and throwing itself around and laying on the ground.
[QUOTE=CrowneDragon;7211039]
Cindyg, it was pics of a foal tied to a donkey, panicked and throwing itself around and laying on the ground.[/QUOTE]
Oh, horrors! I don’t care how many people have done that and for how long, that doesn’t make it OK!
A Quarter Horse barn I board at did this with all it’s yearlings and they weren’t ranch bred horses but very expensive yearlings. They did handle their youngsters daily but still utilized their donkey a lot. I never saw an issue not saying I could do it but apparently it works for their horses.
I missed the original pics but found a few websites using this technique:
http://www.barrelhorses.biz/Training.htm
[QUOTE=BEARCAT;7211151]
I missed the original pics but found a few websites using this technique:
http://www.barrelhorses.biz/Training.htm
Ugh. I really hate that. So many things could go wrong.
A TB breeder near me told me they tie the foals to the mare and let her teach the foal to lead in the same manner as using a donkey. I was a bit surprised they would risk expensive foals like that and in the same way that he was surprised I saw anything wrong with it.
