Teaching Challenges: Children v. Adults

[Weatherford]

Janet - I think Wicky is right; some people simply ride by feel and do not really know or understand the “why”.

I do know there is an instructor near me who is a graduate of the Cadre Noir (French Cavalry School) at Samur (the same place that produced Jack LeGoff). One of the amazing things about his teaching, especially when working with Pony Clubbers (who need to know HOW to TEACH as well as do) and intellectual adults, is his dialectic style: HE asked the questions, looking for the student to figure out and articulate the answer. That way, he knows you understand intellectually and can verbalize what you feel is going on with you and the horse. He expects you to ask questions, and esepcially when working with a green horse, discuss technique.

Interestingly enough, EVERY pony clubber he has coached to take their B or A exams has PASSED - with flying colors! Most on their first try, no less!

[JRG]

I can totally understand the above mentioned feelings in regards to adults and children being “different” and will add a point.

Even as a junior, I wanted to know why and it has made me a better rider because I can explain what is going on with me and the horse.

(Flame suit on) If you instructors out there can’t explain to your students the why’s and how’s of riding you shouldn’t be instructing. You are teaching people to “perch”, and that is preciesly what is wrong with a lot of riders today.

No wonder these people feel they can’t go to a show without there instructor. They don’t know how to think and ride at the same time.

[Anyplace_Farm]

I find kids easier to teach than adults. Adults tend to have more mental blocks and carry an “I can’t” complex. They have a greater sense of self-preservation so they tend to be a bit more cautious whereas a kid trusts that you won’t ask them to do something you don’t feel they can’t do. A kid trusts that you won’t put them in a predicament.

Adults also have trouble with the student/teacher relationship. They want to chit-chat a lot more and discuss their feelings. Which is OK to a certain extent but my opinion is, if you’re talking, you’re not riding.

[brilyntrip]

Without a doubt Adults beginner types that is are much harder to teach for all the reasons listed above!

[Squirt]

It drives me absolutely batty when I’ve student “A” who has their own horse and is at the barn just about everyday and whos has been riding with me for over a year, and then I get student “B”, whose father will not let her have her own horse, yet, and is legally deaf, surpassing student “A” in three weeks of lessons! And I know that people progress at different levels but student “A” has all of the advantages, and still refuses, basically, to learn. She won’t practice on her own, and during the lesson, if I tell her to trot for instance, she continues to walk twice around the arena! And she wants me to take her to shows Yeah, right. Not until you can atleast walk/trot with some semblance of ability!

Student “A” was my only ppupil for a while, and although I’ve taught sucessfully in the past, I was really beginning to wonder about my ability as a trainer. Thank goodness student “B” came into the picture. Here she is with all these strikes against her and I will have no problem taking her to shows this summer. I am even letting her show one of my horses. (I borrow my school horses for the most part, mine are not for all practical purposes school horses!)

In an answer to your question, I prefer to coach adults. I have the whys, before they even ask. And I like supplying the whys. Kids, I’ve found don’t really care. So I have to have a completely different approach when coaching kids. It’s not in my nature to be so stern! With adults, I’m able to coax them through doing what I want.

[Anyplace_Farm]

Well, I certainly hope that my comment about how adults want to chit chat too much hasn’t been misconstrued as my not wanting to explain things. My juniors are smart enough to ask ‘why’ just as an adult might. The juniors tend to have a certain student/teacher level of respect where they ride in and we discuss it. Where an adult might yell it from the rail. I don’t like to talk at lengths of time with my voice raised and I HATE to hear instructors that do it because quite frankly, I think they’re doing it because of that ‘God Syndrome’ they tend to have.

So, once I respond to an adult in ‘yell mode’, then somehow, they continue, then giggle at themselves, have chats with their horses, joke with riders passing by, etc. It’s mostly because they are a bit more self-conscious than children are.

It’s at this time where I say, “OK, let’s stop chatting and let’s do some riding.” I only have to do this a few times and everyone gets the hint.

[B.G.M_heidi]

Having watched many, many lessons, it probably boils down to two specific distinctions. The young child (i.e. one under the age of 15) typically has physical limitations - shortness of leg, no upper body strength. My observation has been that children, however, are better listeners and more intently and earnestly try to follow the instructions of the coach. Perhaps because children tend to be surrounded by adults who instruct (dance instructors, school teachers, soccer coaches; occassionally their parents), they are accustomed to, and I think find comfort in, being told very specifically what to do. And oddly enough, given the physical ‘limitations’, I do find that children are usually braver than adults.

Most adults, on the other hand, pursue riding as somewhat of an escape from the pressures of career and family. They resent being told what to do and this is often evidenced by the complete inability, if not resistance, to listen to the coach’s instructions. To effectively train an adult rider, the coach has to have the ability to communicate the ‘whys and howcomes’ of an instruction. Furthermore, some of the tactics that trainers use with children (shouting - on that very edge of bullying) typically does not work with an adult. And while the adult may enjoy more physical advantages, we also tend to be much more fearful and thus tense when confronted with a challenge - in my case, anything over 2 feet.

Must say if I were a trainer, I’d much prefer to work with young students than adults.

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The difficulty with teaching adults, IMHO, is that they want to know WHY. They try to delve a
TECHNICAL knowledge out of something that works largely by feel. Kids on the other hand rarely ask why, they just do until it starts to “feel right” to them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Being one of those adults who always wants to know “WHY?”, I want to know “WHY?” that is considered a problem?

If I know “WHY?” I am supposed to, for instance, shift my weight into my outside stirrup, then the next time I am more likely to be able to be correctly balanced. If I don’t know “WHY?” then it is going to take a lot more times (of the instrucor telling me) for me to develop the knowledge/feel of when to weight the outside stirrup, and when not to.

Ever since I was a teenager I have been known as “more of a thinking rider than a natural rider” (especially in comparison to my sister). See my description elsewhere of how I passed my B test for an example of a “thinking rider”.

Luckily I am blessed with instructors who explain the “WHY?”, usually without my even asking.

[Elghund2]

Being one of those problematic adults. I think I give instructors fits because I want to know the hows and whys. Probably one of the bigger problems is that I am the one writing the check and therefore the trainer works for me. (I was a plus 30 MBA student and they got treated the same way). As an employer I expect that the employee will adjust to my whims and fancies. Maybe that’s why I am without trainer.

On a serious note, I will not tolerate yelling. I think it is poor coaching technique and is not appropriate with any age group.

[Wicky]

Sorry, brilyntrip , but I can’t agree that most trainers know “why.” In part, it seems to me that different horse and rider combinations work better with different approaches to a given problem.

Take skiing. You can turn in a snow plow. You can turn by up-unweighting or down-unweighting. You can turn by hopping, by stepping. You can turn on your uphill or your downhill ski (try standing only on your right ski and ski down the hill, then next run on your left skil only! When you get good, you have the ability to use all of these techniques and automatically (say by feel) use the right one for the snow conditions and your degree of energy.

I learned about the types of turns from good instructors and from reading, and then experimenting. But, kids do it by imitating what they see - they are better at that. They don’t have to think about the arc of the ski, and if asked, most of them may not understand what you are talking about.

It’s really hard to see all of the things that go on between horse and rider. Why is one horse push-button and you just need to look to turn, and another needs an opening rein, and another needs to be pushed around with your legs, and another needs inside seatbone pushed ahead… We can go on and on. I do not think that most instructors are good at communicating the issues, and I think that it is because unless put into a learning situation where they have to analyze things, they don’t understand why the adult is having problems.

Maybe I feel that way because it seems to me that most people who hang out shingles and call themselves trainers are people who grew up riding and have never spent any time in formal education about theories of balance and horse anatomy.

Sorry about the length of this post.

[Sleepy]

My old trainer, at one point in time, said he was going to get rid of juniors and just teach amateurs because we followed instructions.
Of course, we had all been riding for many years and were spending OUR money rather than Mom and Dad’s.

[Hardly_there]

I teach both adults and kids.

I prefer the kids over the adults overall.

Anyplace farm kind of summed up my reply with the I can’t complex and the trust issues.

My easiest and most stress free lessons are with the kids under 7yrs old. With a few exceptions of course.

[brilyntrip]

You are wrong Wicky most trainers do know why and can explain exactly why, but frequently adults overanalize instead of doing it their fear etc gets in the way of doing it.I sopend a greta deal of time explaining exactly how to do something all my students can tell you exactly why spot didnt get the change( assuming he does them at all) they all understand how the horse works mechanically, but the adults ( the beginners etc ) have alot working against them,they are taking on anew physical skill , they are frequently fearful, and weak.That list of items makes it very hard to teach not impossible but hard .So to teach kids is frequently just easier.

[EarthTo]

From this adult (perhaps getting uncomfortably close to the “senior adult” stage) who is not a beginner (first riding instructions at age 7) but who has stopped and started riding during my life enough times to know that I can always use all the help I can get anytime anyplace to improve my riding, thank you to all who have contributed to this really fascinating thread! I see some of myself (and my wife) at various stages in my/our life as students of equitation in many things you all have said.

I can add very little to what has been said except perhaps to note (1) re the tendency to want to be chatty with the instructor, my wife used to be really bad about this, but I think (at least for her) it came from the fact that she regards another adult as a social equal and thus a fit person with whom to converse, whereas I think most children think of adults as occupying an alternative universe (be that as it may, I ended up gently suggesting to her that she instead think of the instructor during a riding lesson to be like a military drill instructor, to whom the only three acceptable comments that can be made are “yes sir/m’am,” “no sir/m’am,” and “no excuse sir/m’am”) and (2) about the yelling thing, I absolutely agree that yelling does not work with most adults – the problem is “been there, done that,” in other words, by my age I have figured out (and myself at times have employed) the “intimidation as motivation” routine, and so it doesn’t work on me any more – if you yell at me, there are only two possibilities: (a) you are too dumb to realize that I am too old to be fooled by your “act” or (b) your yelling isn’t an act at all, you just enjoy being a horse’s backside, in which case I am not intersted in being around you voluntarily.

Final comment – my hat is off to ANYONE who undertakes to teach anyone anything useful – the world couldn’t function without you! Thank you!