tell me about haflingers

[wrybosome]

A bit of story and some dopey beginner questions-

Im a new rider, taking weekly lessons at a h/j barn in our area. Im just starting to canter. The lesson horses are older TBs. I decided that I wanted more time in the saddle, without a teacher so I did a 2x weekly lease at a barn where my dog is welcome. The atmosphere here is great, BO is also the lessor and is available for lessons if I want. Trialriding is accessible from the property and thats a goal of mine.

So the horse is a Haflinger, its her ‘beginner male rider’ horse. He’s more than big enough to carry me and he seems to mean no actual harm to me, but he has some serious willpower. Wow. First time riding him, I put him at a trot and he decided he wanted to take the low jump. I was asking him to pass outside the jump. Nope, he wants to take it. So I steer him to the outside, with some leg. Now he’s heading sideways into the jump. So rather than go over the jump sideways I stopped steering and let him take it straight on. All was well but it’s a pattern with this guy. He has a ton of go and is fun to ride but everything is a test of wills.

I’ve always tried to be really light with my hands on horses mouths, but I’ve started pulling HARD with this guy. He doesnt like to stop so the routine is brace my seat, fix hands. Nothing. Fix seat as hars as I can, fix hands, then haul back. Then he stops. Release. Then he goes again. Remind him. Stops. Release. Starts to go again…grrr.

While trying to have a conversation at the edge of the ring, he kept deciding to hop over the low ring boundary and leave. Id circle him back, start talking again. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Even my dog was laughing at me.

So…are Haflingers stubborn monsters? Do you ride them differently than TBs? Is it just messing with me because I let it? If so how do I get to be in charge?

I was having success making him do circles and figure eights at one end of the ring but when we resumed trotting around the whole ring it would all start up again.

Its funny and interesting but also kind of exhausting and I need to figure out how to get him to cooperate with me.

[mroades]

In my limited experience with a few of them over the years, yes they are strong willed monsters (now all the Haffie people will come on and tell you how amazing they are)

[Alagirl]

They are light drafts, some have a serious pony mentality - seems like you friend falls into that category.

While I have come across TBs with some sense of ‘humor’ in that perspective, I would ahve to say there are some things you have to approach differently with TBs vs many other breeds.

I leave it up to the people who actually own them to fill in the blanks (but more leg/spurs/dressage whip might be in order)

[KBC]

@wrybosome;7740630

So…are Haflingers stubborn monsters? Do you ride them differently than TBs? Is it just messing with me because I let it? If so how do I get to be in charge?

Yes they are stubborn monsters, the fact that they are so cute means they often get away with it. You are on the right track, just keep battling, keep insisting that you do know best, that what you want to do IS what you are going to do, and you will find that the switch will flip. Once you have proved that you are the boss, and you will not give in, he will be eager to please and you will wonder why it took a battle to get there.

[Frosty_M]

I think you need to ride another horse for your precious horse time. You are a beginner. You need a schoolmaster type horse who will take care of you, maybe challenge you a little bit when you get better, but a horse that is safe and above all FUN! It should not be your job to school this woman’s horse. I wouldn’t ride the horse again. You can’t learn what you need to learn when you are busy fighting him and it’s no fun. How long does the lease last? I’d try to swap it for another one of her horse’s if you can find one that suits. At least you can not lease the horse again. Stand up for yourself now, don’t be shy. (((HUGS)))

I’ve read about and had contact with a few halfies. My experience is that they are willful and difficult.

[Plainandtall]

This is not unusual behavior unfortunately. There was someone else here who had a runaway haflinger- wish I could think what the specifics on the thread were so I could search it up for you.

I don’t really know what “beginner male rider horse” means… wondering if it’s supposed to be like “husband horse” as in- strong enough to carry a grown man and won’t try to kill him even though he’s not really a rider.

In this case I’m afraid that the only reason for the male rider qualifier may have to do with needing a huge amount of upper body strength to ride that bully.

[wrybosome]

Lol, thanks for the responses. Yes, im big and he’s safe at least in the sense that he doesnt seem to mean actual harm. There are some other leasable horses at this barn but they are above my current skill level. Eventually I’d like to work up to one and if it means learning to out-think and ride this stubborn bastard that’s fine with me, my time isn’t all that precious and the fact that the BO welcomes my dog and suggests I train her to go crosscountry with me ahorse goes a very, very long way with me. In crowded SE PA thats a breath of fresh air.

So any info on the peculiarities of haflingers, stubborn ponies, etc…would be very welcome and helpful.

[wrybosome]

And at least I can skips weights for a while.

[Plainandtall]

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/search.php?searchid=1160926

I still can’t find the thread I’m thinking of- but a search for haflinger bolt sure does produce a ton of results. I’m going to agree with Frosty M… I don’t think that either of you are going to get what you need from the other out of this plunked together partnership.

[Huntin_Pony]

At least get the owner to teach you how to use a “pulley rein.” This should give you an emergency brake.

Is he pushy when you are working with him on the ground, too?

[katyb]

What does the BO say about it? There must be some secret with this particular horse, if he is generally safe enough for beginners.

I never met a haflinger that wasn’t fabulous, but that’s only a few.

[Bluey]

Growing up in Europe and european riding centers, that all have the occasional Haflinger come thru, I have to say that yes, they are small draft horses with a pony attitude.

Now, they tell me the last decades some breeders are aiming to make the breed more light and rideable, not only the occasional individual, but have not seen any lately to say that is so.

Three decades ago, this friend trainer asked me if I knew about Haflingers.
I said yes, why.
She said she had one a client brought to her, bought from the Amish, that supposedly rode and drove and …
I interrupted with “and it runs off with you, in slow motion, not scared, but you can’t stop or turn it”.
She started laughing and said yes, exactly.
What is worst and not funny at all, she had hooked it to a cart and they ended up a mile away in a creek, the cart in shambles.

Honestly, that may happen with any poorly trained horse, of any breed, but when that is a Haflinger, they can be, more than other horses, a bulldozer with a mind of it’s own in a yellow coat.
She decided to tell the client to return the horse, he was not suitable for their kids to learn to ride.

The ones we had in Europe were the hand picked ones that were the more amenable and some even were used to give jumping lessons.
They tended to take advantage of beginner riders.
There came a time when every student needed to learn to ride those kinds of horses also, with a mind of it’s own and make it work.
I well remember the first time I rode one such, I was not warned this was what he did if he could get by with it, we were trail riding in a narrow forest lane and, before I knew it, he scooted over and was seriously trying to rub me off under a tree with very low branches and I could not get him to quit for a bit, he was so intent on pushing himself full force into the scraping me off.
I am a little biased from that being my first Haflinger experience.

There are ways to get around asking those horses to do what you want without needing to feel that you have to escalate and become harsh with your hands or frustrated.
That means you are not there yet where you should be riding that horse without direct instruction, not really fair to the horse and you may get some bad habits needing to fight with him to get him to behave.

I would ask your trainer about this and tell her the problems you are having and see if you could change to another horse where you can learn the finer points of riding without needing to be ham-handed with a less responsive horse as that one seems to be.

[wrybosome]

[QUOTE=Huntin’ Pony;7740688]
At least get the owner to teach you how to use a “pulley rein.” This should give you an emergency brake.

Is he pushy when you are working with him on the ground, too?[/QUOTE]

No, he has great ground manners. He’s actually pretty patient with me, since it takes me time to braid his forelock back over the crownpiece of the bridle per BO instructions. I suspect Im 80% of the problem.

[QUOTE=katyb;7740691]What does the BO say about it? There must be some secret with this particular horse, if he is generally safe enough for beginners.

I never met a haflinger that wasn’t fabulous, but that’s only a few.[/QUOTE]

I’ll ask the BO. So far she’s had the grace to let me work things out on my own rather than yelling instructions over and I like that. And yeah, he is pretty fabulous, or at least potentially fabulous. The schooling TBs I’ve been on previously were clearly bored by me. This guy has some personality anyway. Its a bratty personality, but there’s still a lot of “lets go” in it.

[wrybosome]

Nice post Bluey. Ham handed is not my goal. What I should probably do is take a few lessons with the owner/trainer.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=wrybosome;7740726]
Nice post Bluey. Ham handed is not my goal. What I should probably do is take a few lessons with the owner/trainer.[/QUOTE]

You will be surprised how light such horses can be, but it takes some work to get there with them, they don’t have the same kind of “yes, Ma’am” light horses have, you negotiate with them and they will work their little hearts out for you.

If you make it work, you will learn so much also about how to adapt to whatever horse you ride.

Keep him busy with much to do, transitions coming up fast and light with the aids, even if he wants to ignore you, keep staying light and then long rest periods, so they don’t feel picked on continuously.
Work a bit and quit before he starts to think “hey, I am not sure I want to do this now”.

[wrybosome]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7740733]
You will be surprised how light such horses can be, but it takes some work to get there with them, they don’t have the same kind of “yes, Ma’am” light horses have, you negotiate with them and they will work their little hearts out for you.

If you make it work, you will learn so much also about how to adapt to whatever horse you ride.

Keep him busy with much to do, transitions coming up fast and light with the aids, even if he wants to ignore you, keep staying light and then long rest periods, so they don’t feel picked on continuously.
Work a bit and quit before he starts to think “hey, I am not sure I want to do this now”.[/QUOTE]

Your middle paragraph, that was exactly what was going through my head. On our lease meeting the owner told me that he was more whoa than go but when he learns you he’s very responsive.

I have no long term goals other than improving my riding and maybe riding with a hunt, so if the stubborn SOB has something to teach me that’s cool.

[wrybosome]

Really stupid question…is a TB a ‘light horse’? They seem to respond to just suggestions and the direction I look. At least in a ring.

[Lilykoi]

I had a very small Halfie for a school pony. Pound for pound he was the strongest thing I ever had. Always had to have the gate closed on the ring or there was no telling where a kid would end up during a lesson

[Bluey]

I would not call them stubborn, just have a different work ethic that we are used in horses bred to be riding horses and responsive.

The good part of Haflingers is that they generally are very steady, quiet, non-reactive and so safe horses, other than wanting to get their way.
They rarely take off bucking or get spooked and lose it and run off a cliff.
Mostly their way is to ask “what is in that for me” and “make me!” if someone gets strong with them (and who would not want to at times, right?)

Those quirky traits fit some people and they love them, many others would rather not have to work so hard at just trying to get to ride.
Then, also, there are those Haflingers that are just sweet and not at all difficult, not all are out for themselves first, but that used to be a known breed trait.

[wrybosome]

[QUOTE=Lilykoi;7740758]
I had a very small Halfie for a school pony. Pound for pound he was the strongest thing I ever had. Always had to have the gate closed on the ring or there was no telling where a kid would end up during a lesson :)[/QUOTE]

LMAO, that sounds…so familiar.