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Tell me about your difficult horses that turned out well

I’m familiar with several of the groundwork trainers, but they all seem to do it so differently. TBH, I don’t know who to listen to. Warwick Schiller is a great horseman, but he’s become very woo-woo lately…and seems to be much about standing with your horse in silence and letting the energy flow to build a relationship. That style is just not my cup of tea. I need something a little more practical/tactical. Would love recommendations of programs/teachers I could follow online or via CD.

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For groundwork, Tristan Tucker, or better yet, find a local colt starter/NH guy who is also KIND and take a couple of lessons.

None of mine have been easy but my top 2:

  1. My old mare tolerates nothing: no horses running around behind her in the ring, no bad footing at anything other than a walk, no unbalanced riding. She takes advantage of her rider. She’s also the only horse I’ve ever met that I think would genuinely prefer to run around inverted. No talent for dressage, explodes with excitement if there’s two jumps in a row. The one thing she doesn’t have is a spook, and this is why I kept her around. I learned at some point during our time together that all of this was because of insecurity: if you are not going to step up and make decisions, she will gladly do it, though I think she feels safer when she is not responsible. She maxed out at first level dressage, did a few schooling shows, and I can hop on her anytime I want and put in a decent first level test. She doesn’t have the focus, dedication, or confirmation for anything above that.

  2. One of my Lusitanos has the talent but zero emotional maturity or flexibility. One spooky thing or one correction and it was forty minutes of the ride trying to get his brain back. One canter circle would cause an absolute meltdown. He has a signature spin and bolt move and a spook on the ground. I contribute all of this to growing up in an environment that wasn’t right for him; they didn’t take him anywhere or encourage him to grow up at all. For him it’s all just learning to ride more clearly and giving him confidence under saddle. We’ve used some unconventional methods and I really only ride him in the double bridle because that’s what he likes and needs. We still walk a fine line of being accommodating and making it clear that while we are allowed to look and express our dislike, meltdowns are unacceptable. He’s schooling fourth level on the good days and training level on the really bad days. :upside_down_face:

They all decided to grow up around 11-12 years.

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His “skills path” which is the non woo way, is still available on his YouTube and video site. On his FB group, if you have a question you want answered without woo, he asks you simply state so in your question. Zero judgment. He regularly re posts videos from the “skills” era and points out how the horses are in a good place mentally. His dedication to answering questions on his FB group and video site is astonishing.

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Oh man. Join the Young Horse Club. We have jackets.

Seriously, just gird your loins for getting through the next year or two. It will get better. I bought my mare as a five year old and getting through her next year was just miserable. She wasn’t naughty, just shitty about things sometimes and it was SO NOT FUN. But I have a wonderful friend and trainer who has seen this movie a million times. And I’ve been with her long enough to have seen her absolutely rank 4 year olds who ran backwards all the way around the arena or stood on their hind legs because someone dared to put a leg on them, turn into perfect citizens a few years later who helped timid amateurs achieve great things. I’ve even ridden one of her horses who, just two years ago, was downright scary sometimes, as he’s enormous and could be a cheeky jerk. He’s now 8 and let me toodle around on him and was absolutely foot perfect. We did all the third level things and he was a real gentleman. It was a pleasure.

Basically what I’m saying is, it’ll take time for him to grow up. You can’t rush him through the 5, 6, or 7 year old years. Lots of good advice here about groundwork, etc. And that’s all good. But the only way past it, is through it. So, when you find yourself traveling through hell, keep going. You’ll get out of it.

I promise. And in the meantime, get yourself some friends (hell, just message me here!) that will allow you to vent, complain, or rant about the bad behavior and then will calmly remind you that you’re good enough, you’re smart enough, and gosh darn it, it will get better!

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My spooky unfocused youngster became a different ride when we tried riding with noise cancelling ear bonnets. He will still spook occasionally but is so much easier to keep his attention on me.

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Thank you, @eponacelt! Just the moral support I needed :slight_smile:

I use Horselogs.com. It’s a free site where you can put in all sorts of info. I put in what I did each ride/lesson, when he gets shoes, etc.

I have a difficult one, but I love him I think in part because when I do get through to him, I feel like I really accomplished something. And he’s cute.

@gertie06 --I can only tell you what worked for me --you may have to try a couple on YouTube or something to see who suits you. And as you found out, some trainer’s philosophies and methods have changed over the years —for what it’s worth –

I found success and still use the basic methods taught in Clinton Anderson’s Gaining Control and Respect on the Ground --it worked for me because the lessons are short --I would watch a 30 min segment (all are 20 to 30 min of instruction, then you are supposed to apply the technique to your horse) --I would watch 30 min on my lunch, then go home after school (I was a teacher at the time) and try out what I’d learned.

The lessons presented in a logical way --CA showed the viewer a horse that completed the exercise perfectly. He then explained the steps and why each was important. He then took a horse who had never been trained and was “reactive” and worked with it until it got the idea. He then switched to a horse that was “lazy” and did the same thing. It was clear neither horse had been trained to do the step at first, but by the end of the lesson, had the idea started. He then did another part on “handler error” and “horse error” and how to watch for and correct that. All of this in 30 min --clearly the steps were small —I think the first lesson was teaching the horse to release to pressure when you pulled the lead rope to one side. That small and that basic --but then the next lesson added to that --and so on.

Gaining Control and Respect on the Ground may be 20 years old by now. I’ve watched a few of his more recent lessons (when I had a specific problem I needed to work on) --he seems less of a trainer now, and more all about “buy my equipment, join my club, come to my ranch.” But the first series, were great for me.

One of the DUH! moments for me was when he discussed how long it would take a horse to learn the lessons. He said, “It’s like school. If you go every day, after 12 years you’ve learned enough to graduate. But, if you only go twice a week, or once a week, and take a lot of vacations, it’s going to take you a lot longer to learn the material.”

For me, a person who never set much of a schedule to work my horses, that was a turning point. After that, I made time to work with the horse at least 30 min a day 5 days a week. But I was at a point in my life where I could --all the kids and grandkids had moved off the farm. It was just me and the horses. It was easy to make time. Sometimes I worked in crazy cold, and sometimes I worked in rain, and sometimes, heat —but I did it. It was wonderful to see the horses “get it.”

Ironically, my newest horse came to me already knowing ALL the Clinton Anderson exercises (I think there are 104 total --half on the ground, half in the saddle). Needless to say, he does need a reminder now and then --but it as lovely that we met and spoke the same language from day 1.

Some people are going to possibly replay and say that Clinton Anderson is the worst ever --ok --worked for me. But I do believe that any logical trainer followed 30-40 min a day, 5 days a week will ultimately get the horse handler to the point where he or she wants to be.

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I would like to place an order for a jacket please. Do they have built in protective foam panels?

I am in the Embrace the Suck phase with my 5 year old WB mare who has maybe 70-80 rides. We went through a rearing phase, and continue to revisit the growing roots and refusing to move stage, which is now joining the kicking vehemently at my leg phase. If there had been video of our lunging session last night, someone would be calling the SPCA, but she did get with the program and start going forward off the voice aid eventually.

OP, like you I don’t feel scared or overfaced by this horse, but that doesn’t mean it’s fun. OK, her rearing phase was a little scary. However, I’ve taken to laughing whenever she misbehaves. The other boarders probably think I’m nuts, but it relieves the tension and keeps me from getting too pissed. Right now I’ve decided that I am going to train her like I’m getting ready to show intro, and just ignore the stalling out crap. Get 3 minutes of good work, praise like crazy and put her away. Don’t get too emotionally invested either way, just chop wood and carry water; trust the process will work. Also look for signs of trying, even if they aren’t obvious, or getting to the result you want. Building empathy for the horse from his perspective always gives me more patience.

I do take video every few weeks, and it helps to go back and see the positive changes, which I tend to miss by being to focused on the stopping problem and how it isn’t resolved yet. When I start getting tunnel vision on a riding problem, I take a step back and lunge or just give her days off while I ruminate on it and come up with a new approach.

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I’ve had some really tough ones that didn’t end up well (one was euthanized and had acute/chronic pancreatitis - pain explained her issues…another is now an embryo transfer mare as she was too risky to ride…my recent 4yo who was easy and got really challenging ended up dx with EDM and was euthanized in February). The morale to those stories…if they are really, really tough, there is probably a medical issue going on.

That said my 16yo was a pretty “energetic” youngster…though I never felt unsafe (which wasn’t the case with the others). Got him at 3…went to our first show as a 4yo. He broke the window in the horse trailer. We never made it to the show ring all weekend…just the lunging ring. He was airs above the ground the entire time!!

Later in the season, he got better. You still had to lunge (20 minutes of launching) but then he was super. I recall one show…I warned the person in the lunge ring that my guy would be very exuberant. She said, my horse is old and just needs stretching he won’t care! Well…she cleared out of the ring in 5 minutes after seeing my boy launch (mind you, he never drug or pulled on me, he always stayed on his lunge circle). I finished lunging…rode my test, he was perfect and ended up with a high score for the day. Later I saw her and she asked me if I ever managed to get on to ride…she was shocked when she heard he won the class! LOL

I swore I would never be able to ride him without lunging…he was that tricky 3-6yrs. We then went through a very naughty period (turned out to be an SI injury). He is now 16 and is the absolutely safest and easiest horse to ride. No lunging needed…he could have a month off and you can jump on…even in hurricane winds! He is as close to unflappable as you can find. I laugh all the time at how he has become my Mr. Consistent and easy horse!

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I am not familiar with Warwick Schiller so I can’t speak to the “woo.” I do know that most of my time with horses has a strong intuitive aspect, which is very hard to put into words without sounding woo, so mostly I dont try :).

The end goal of groundwork IMHO is not to perfect the movement but to get the horse and you moving in sync on the ground. Standing quietly beside your horse is a good thing. That sync you are looking for is emotional. Once it’s there you can do more.

The important thing is that you approach your horse at all times with calm awareness. That includes entering the barn, cross ties, tacking up. You want the feeling the horse is with you and in order to get that you need to be with the horse.

I think that horses spook at silly things because they are carrying anxiety in geberal about the riding experience. They may also anticipate getting slammed in the mouth when they spook, and start to associate rabbits or shadows with the rider getting angry with them.

When I went back to lessons at a h/j barn almost 15 years ago, I was aware that I was very much the 11 year old girl, way too interested in watching and interpreting the horses and observing random behaviors unrelated to the primarily transactional task of riding lessons.

When I landed by chance in my current barn, I discovered groundwork training and clicker training, and turned out to be pretty good at it because of my inner 11 year old who noticed what horses were doing with their ears and body etc and always wanted to “talk” to them. Also my expectation of horses from when I was a kid was: you spend all day with them, you can get off and lead them around under through anything on the trail, they respect you in the stall and love attention, they basically love to get out and go riding, they might have a big spook or a temper tantrum over an isolated thing but most of the time you are bopping along both totally happy.

Have I worked with difficult horses as an adult? I don’t know. I’ve worked with several green horses. For the past year I’ve been working with a mare that was sold as an unrideable bucker 5 years ago and then had a foal and lived on a field. When I started working with her she would panic and run backwards and rear up if you tried to handle her feet, put a bridle on her, or were sloppy with the longe whip. If you walked her off the property she screamed in anxiety. If you put her in a stall she lost her mind. The first time in the indoor she lost her mind.

I’ve never thought of her as difficult because we just worked through all of this at our own pace. She was my COVID lockdown project. Now I’m getting a bit of pro help starting her under saddle because there was a bit of initial panic there. But she’s not a difficult horse; she’s an absolute sweetie that wants to please but just didn’t know anything. She works through these things. I pay attention to how she reacts to weather, location, other horses, and use this to my advantage.

From the first I haven’t thought of her as difficult. I’ve thought of her as potentially being the calm confident boss mare on the field, and the good self reliant mom who was pasture bred and foaled on the field. That horse was inside her waiting to come out once she got used to new things. I was in a position to just spend a lot of open ended time on those new things.

I’m not sure the concept “difficult horse” is very useful, to be honest. I sure see a lot of riders create difficult horses, myself included in my early days as a returning rider. I think that most horses prefer to be calm and happy, and if they aren’t, it’s because the rider or handler hasnt figured out or can’t give the horse what it needs to be calm and happy.

Every single horse has the potential to become difficult for someone. And every horse needs a progressive education towards doing his job. If you are lucky you get a horse that was a good solid B plus student, listens to teacher, likes to color within the lines, and didn’t miss any classes. If you aren’t, you get a horse that missed a grade somewhere, or was talented enough that he could cover up the fact he didn’t really understand the work, or had a really mean teacher at one point that made him shut down, or has a lingering terror and nightmares about being back in school again.

You have to figure out where those holes are and fill them. Panicking in the arena is not about panicking in the arena, and won’t get fixed by just “riding him through” the sticky corner.

I don’t think anyone including WS can tell you long distance how to fix this horse. Probably lots of us including WS could be very useful on the ground but clearly that’s not possible.

It’s also not possible to instruct anyone how to have a good relationship with a given horse. You need to access your inner 11 year old girl and spend quality time with him, until you feel he is with you on the ground and in the saddle. I would suspend actual schooling for now. Concentrate on the things he knows that are safe zones for him. Don’t get on him until he is calm and focused, and when you do, just walk. Ride during quiet times if that hls. Don’t ride during other people’s lessons if he doesn’t like to hear “teacher voice” bellowing across the arena. Pay attention to what he is seeing and hearing. Have him halt and chill under saddle. Practice things like turning with no reins, just seat. Quiet down your ride and concentrate on him being quiet.

Dr Andrew MacCleans work is brilliant and not woo. I went to his clinic once. He said a horse needs 9 repetitions of an experience to change behavior and generalize. I used that to help my main mare get over being balky in the ring. We spent a couple of days going from nice forward trail ride into the outdoor arena at trot, back out before she realized what was happening, rinse and repeat. I did 3 sets then trail ride loop, then 3 sets, trail, 3 sets, for 9 reps a day, for 3 days and then dropped the number of reps but used the technique agsin if she got sticky. I made sure we had no fights in the arena. I realized she had learned that the arena was where we fought. I changed the context. The arena became more just an extension of the trail system.

For your horse he seems to have learned that the arena is a place that will make him feel anxious and distracted, and that will make you ride him in ways that try to control those feelings. I would suggest stop riding him in there for a few days. Do a quiet walk trot longe, do a moving longe up and down the arena, square turns, and work on voice cues for walk trot halt. Handwalk him and get him in sync with you. Teach halt and stand in hand. Do this during a quiet time. Don’t bother with canter.

When you start riding in there again, consider if the facility makes this possible, to ride in the open door, do one lap at a walk, back out, around the driveway or whatever, back in, back out. Get him out before he gets anxious. Rinse and repeat. When he starts to seem calmer extend the walk time. Then you can try some trot.

The big thing is to quit before he expresses anxiety. Most horses give alot of cues that they are NQR about a situation before they show behavior. Many riders are so used to NQR horses that they push them through and think that’s fine. But that’s exactly what goes wrong in the rabbit scenario. The horse finally can’t stand it anymore.

You need to change how he feels about being ridden in the arena. He needs to feel this is where things are calm and happy and make sense to me. Until you get that he won’t be learning anything in his schooling anyways.

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Teaching the horse to let go of the rabbits is like Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. Except that you can’t persuade the horse to stand in a safe place, imagine dragons, and then calm down because the dragons are imaginary and the space is still safe.

So you have to induce a low level of anxiety and set the horse up to release that anxiety. Once they start releasing the low level of anxiety they learn that stimulus isn’t worth worrying about and get progressively less anxious about that stimulus. Then you induce a slightly higher level of anxiety, set up for release and continue the process.

This is what Scribbler was doing with her riding through the arena during a trail ride. Going in the arena induced that low anxiety, they exited before it got strong enough for the horse to act on it, and went back to the happy trails where the horse could release the anxiety because nothing was adding to it and the trigger was gone.

The process of repeating mildly anxious to calm allows the horse to learn that they can release their anxiety, that they can think about anxiety inducing stimuli, and they can be okay without the anxiety. They can use that skill to release stronger anxiety if we practice. We can’t teach them, we can only set them up to learn.

With my horse, who was like yours in that some days were great and others a bundle of unfocused anxiety, rabbit practice occured as needed after the initial learning was understood. On good days we did normal dressage work. On anxious days I set that aside and did rabbit practice - and there were days I REALLY didn’t want to do rabbit practice, and did it anyway. The ratio of good days to rabbit days changed over time, and then the duration of rabbit practice reduced in each session as my horse was able to assess the stimulus and decide it was no big deal and we can go back to work now.

I can tell you specifically what I did with my horse if you like. It was quite different from Scribbler’s activities but has the same underlying induce anxiety/set up for release process. You probably won’t follow our processes exactly anyway as you will be working with your horse’s anxiety and environment and will adapt to suit.

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I feel you. I’ve got two. Difficult and quirky in different ways.

My gelding is the easiest horse in the world on the ground. Bought him as a yearling. Completely relaxed and focused on you. My non-horsey dad gave him his first bath (aka sprayed him with the hose when we weren’t home because he stunk). I body clipped him as a 3yo without any sedation/twitch/chain.
He was super quiet to ride as a 3/4 yo. But as soon as he turned five it was like he realized how athletic he was. If you lost his attention for a second he would find something to spook at, and spooking always involved rodeo bucks, even from a stand still.
Ear stuffies helped a lot. Living out 24/7 was a game changer. He still bucks, but playful, not explosive, and less often.
He’s still not a horse for an inexperienced rider, but he’s as honest as they come. We’ve done the 3’6" A/Os, we’ve done some Derbies. And he’s a hack winner.

My coming 4yo chestnut mare is difficult in a different way. Bought her as a weanling. She isn’t spooky. But she’s overreactive to new things, especially on the ground. She also doesn’t trust new people.
Things like the picking up her feet, the farrier, pulling her mane, clipping, learning to tie, trailering, bathing have to be done super slow. She’s very balanced for a baby, and the type that could rear when upset.
Undersaddle she’s been good. If another horse is around she’s great, much more relaxed with a friend in the vicinity.
Because of the pandemic I haven’t had her off property yet. She could be a superstar, or it could be a disaster.

My mom’s 17yo gelding was purchased by us as a 4yo. He was easy and ammy friendly from day one. But not as athletic as the other two. He can be a pushy pill when he feels like it though.

Don’t get discouraged. Every young horse is different, and they can go through phases. The one who was super easy as a 3yo might be down right dangerous as a 6yo. The one who didn’t canter until it was undersaddle for 90 days might have a breakthrough and kick butt in the young horse classes.

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I will add here what I always say on a forum.

Every time you interact with the horse you are training it.

Every time you train the horse he is a little bit better or a little bit worse.

If you start on a Monday and he is a little bit better every time. Then next Monday you start with a much better horse. The horse you have the next Monday is much better than the horse you started with.

If the horse is a bit worse each time you train it. Then next Monday it will be a much worse horse. By the next Monday you have a much worse horse than the one you started with.

If your horse is getting better each Monday. GREAT.

If your horse is getting worse each Monday get professional help immediately, you don’t want to reach the next Monday.

If the horse is not getting better or worst, get professional help as you are not training the horse correctly.

The trouble with young horses that has not been mentioned above, is they learn really really REALLY fast. They learn much much faster than their rider.

If the rider does not know what they are doing they are teaching the horse to do the incorrect things. Boy do horses learn how to do the incorrect things fast!

If the rider knows what they are doing, which only comes with experience, then the horse NEVER learns the wrong things.

This is why the saying is, “it is easier to train a horse than it is to retrain a horse.”

An untrained young horse is a blank slate and in the right hands the easiest type of horse to train, and not hard at all. It is a pleasure.

It is the horses above like the one that is too nervous to show that are harder to train as you are retraining not training.

It is getting the confidence of the horse that is key. Some may call this woo, but it is the horse that gets to say whether the woo works or not, not the trainer.

You get confidence with a horse by having your own confidence. You must always be there. You must always be fair. You never push the horse by asking them to do more than they can handle mentally.

I did end up taking Sim to a few lessons. He erupted the first time. It is where he lived before being given to us. I think my instructor was surprised I mounted after lunging him, but I knew him so well I had confidence in him, which gave him confidence in me.

Another time I forgot something in the car. The earpiece I think. I handed him to my trainer and said ask him about all the awful things I did to him this week and I left to get the earpiece.

When I came back I said did he tell you how horrible I am?

He said actually no he didn’t. He turned his head and watched you leave. He didn’t move, but he stood like that watching and did not straighten up again until you came back into view.

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Many years ago my parents gave me their pasture ornament pet mare, a 7/8 Arab 1/8 ASB.

They had gotten her (“fell in love with her, so pretty!) as an already broke horse from a farm that did Western horses. She came equipped with a “Tom Thumb” Western shanked bit (7” shanks) that was 1/2" to 3/4" too wide for her mouth. The Western saddle that came with her probably did not fit either. She was the first ruined horse I retrained and it was an often exciting and usually aggravating experience. I could not afford a trainer or riding lessons on her.

When she arrived I quickly discovered that she was a bolt or balk horse. ANYTHING could cause a bolt, and anything could cause a balk. I tried her in a snaffle bit–no, No, NO!!! I did not have access to a riding ring and all my riding was in a pasture fenced with barbed wire.

After two rides I saved up my money, went up to Little Joe’s Saddlery in Richmond, Va. and invested in a thick dressage curb (4 1/2") and a pretty thick dressage bradoon (4 3/4"). She had come to me equipped with a very necessary standing martingale. I HAD to wear spurs to get her to move out of her balk, but Lord help me if I accidentally touched her with the spurs when she was behaving (instant bolt).

We waltzed around the pasture for a few months. I had to work on EVERYTHING under saddle (she was rather sweet on the ground.) Contact, halting with a soft hand, obedience to the leg, turning properly, etc., etc., etc…

It took me six months but I got her to where I took off the standing martingale forever, and I switched back to a snaffle bit. She was always spicy but I learned how to handle her.

IF her hooves had been decent (shelly and brittle) she would have been the horse I picked if my life depended on getting somewhere relatively quickly.

After a few years when she moved on she was much, much better and ended up being the horse for a family of four, including little kids. Her new owners LOVED her.

Because of this mare I have been able to handle some rather difficult badly trained or ruined horses that my riding teacher asked me to ride (difficult as in "I don’t have to and you can’t make me do it!!!–balking, several minutes backing up, twirling and bolting mainly) Learning to out-think that mare’s deeply seated resistances has served me well throughout the last 30 some years.

If you chose to keep riding a difficult horse you will have to improve yourself too. But there is a wonderful reward (besides the horse becoming wonderful), you WILL be able to ride, re-train and figure out difficult horses in the future. You have faced the Kraken and prevailed.

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I know that many guffaw at the idea that diet may make a difference in a horse’s behavior but it does.

My horse that has always been work to ride, has grain and soy sensitivities. I did not discover that until another horse developed metabolic issues in 2007, and I took all of my easy keepers off anything containing grain and used soy as a protein source.

It made such a dramatic change to the good in his willingness to cooperate that even my non-horse husband noticed the difference.

He’s been with me 25 of his 27 years. He can still be onery because that’s just who his lineage is but once I got him off grains and soy, he became a much softer, willing horse who wasn’t near the work to ride that he used to be.

If you think about it, that’s really no different than how humans suss out & build relationships with each other. We’ll probably speak to each other instead of just standing there, of course. But anyone who works in s field like sales will tell you that they watch for & often mirror the other person’s non-verbal cues.

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@ RedHorses, yes, I would like to know what you did with your horse.

Warwick Schiller references:

Theory of rabbits (5 min)

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for horses (20 min)

I did much of my initial rabbit practice on the longe. The goal was to have my horse volunteer to stand near the scary point (wherever and whatever form that might take on any given day - sometimes it was a noise outside the indoor arena). Rabbit practice looked something like this:

A quick WTH longe to check attention and response to commands done in a non reactive part of the ring/arena. The purpose was to get his mind into work mode.

Then started a pattern that would take us near the scary point. I liked the cloverleaf pattern for this as it breaks up the circles with straight lines and it’s easy to do lots of transitions (trot the circle, walk the straight or vice versa) and it provides multiple angles and distances approaching the scary point, passing and turning away. Do you know the cloverleaf pattern?

Watching my horse carefully I asked him to shift down one gait as he approached the gates of doom, trot to walk, walk to halt, at the point where he began to show worry about the scary point. If he couldn’t, the walk or halt might happen after he passed the scary point and that was okay! This is not about you must halt NOW if I say whoa! It’s about helping him learn to let go of his rabbits and take responsibility for not spooking. After the downshift happened he got praised and we continued to the next leaf.

On each leaf there is a point where the horse is approaching the scary point. If he showed concern I would ask for the walk or halt. On the leaf furthest from the scary point that transition would happen pretty much where I asked. Any halt that occurred where/when I asked meant letting him stand still for a minute (yes, 60+ seconds) or until he couldn’t stand still because anxiety about the scary point was getting too much. Any halt or walk that occurred past the scary point was met with praise and immediately back to work.

The cloverleaf (or whatever) must be work. Lots of transitions - and the ones not affected by the approach to the scary point must be quicker and demonstrate attention and response to my commands. This is critical because I am creating a rest space for him beside the scary point.

As we worked the transition occurred closer and closer to the scary point. When the approach was in trot he started to volunteer the walk. After he volunteered the walk several times and could walk past without any big deviation in track or speed I very calmly asked him to trot beside the scary point. It sounds like the wrong thing, like I’m telling him to run away, but I’m actually saying listen to me and do this thing at the moment the scary point looms largest in his focus. As with the initial downshift it’s not about NOW, but about getting past the focus on the scary point and listening to me.

Then we progressed to halt beside the scary point. At first halt happened well past the scary point, so praise and immediately back to work. Then halt happened sooner. When he halted next to the scary point I let him stand until he couldn’t and asked him to walk on again before he moved on his own. This was only a few seconds at first.

Can you see what happens next?

The first time my horse volunteered to halt at the closest point to the scary point of the day and cock a hind foot and drop his head!! I knew we had cracked it (angels singing :wink: ). And that day’s scary point was legitimately scary (odd noises and a narrow slice of visual input).

We did similar rabbit practice under saddle. We graduated to working past the scary point without the downshift. When approaching and passing the scary point I did as little as possible (quiet legs and hand) then asked him for something as soon as we passed it. As he got better about keeping his track and speed past the scary point despite his anxiety with no aids from me, I pushed my hands forward as we approached and let him take responsibility for maintaining track and speed. If he did drop to walk that was okay, and I quietly asked for trot again. Oddly enough looping the reins often made him keep the track better.

https://youtu.be/zG5DhgEbiDk This figure eight at the stimulus of the day is now usually enough rabbit practice to remind my horse that he can let go of his rabbits. I should note that I did try this technique a year or so before starting the rabbit practice and it did not work for my horse at that time. He needed the CBT to learn to let go of his rabbits.

Does this epic help or muddy the waters? :wink:

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Well, I think I will need to re-read a few times for good comprehension. What’s the cloverleaf pattern, though?

I did want to take a moment to thank you for the time and energy for typing all that out!

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