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Tell me about your difficult horses that turned out well

Off Course
#42

I freely admit that I copied and pasted from a previous thread where I did actually type it all out. :wink: I copied this too:

The cloverleaf pattern is basically a square with a circle in each corner, but instead of going along the wall to get to the next circle the horse is going through the middle of the square. I adapted it from a book of arena exercises where you ride large and every time you reach the middle of a side you turn and ride to the middle of the opposite side, turning the same way you did when you left the track (so all lefts or all rights). When longeing the human is walking a square, stopping in each corner as the horse does the circle.

Start at the walk. You stand on the quarter line and longe your horse in a 10m circle to the left in the corner between. K. and. A. As the horse comes off the wall and onto the centre line you push the horse out so they leave the circle and stay on the centre line walking towards X and you walk parallel along the quarter line for 10m. You stop and the horse follows the contact on the line to walk a circle around you (technically it’s 3/4 of a circle). As the horse comes off the wall and reaches the quarter line you push them out and you both walk parallel to the short side across to the other quarter line, where you stop and the horse goes on the circle. As the horse comes to the centre line (now heading towards A) you walk 10m along the quarter line as you push the horse out to walk the centre line. You stop, the horse circles and you both walk across to the other quarter line back to the 10m circle in the corner between A and K.

Once you see how the pattern works you can change the circle size easily, and you can go further along the long axis of the arena between circles if you want (a good way of easing closer to the scary spot).

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#43

I was given a 7 year old that had been purchased as a 3 year-old stallion to be someone’s up and coming CDE star. He was related to this gal’s current and very successful CDE star (World cup class) and she was sure he would fill those hoof prints. At the age of 3 this guy was already known for being very difficult and in some ways down right dangerous. She had him gelded shortly after purchase. She went through 3 very well known (and internationally so) driving trainers all telling her to get rid of him. She then decided to see if he would do better under saddle since he was not about to tolerate having even a harness on him let alone hooked to a carriage. During this time he colicked and was sent to surgery 3 times. Upon recovery he went through 3 more trainers who had decent track records for starting young and sometime difficult beasts. She called me in tears (knowing I owned others related to him) and asked me to take him. At that time I did not want nor did I need ‘that’ kind of project. So at first I passed. She scheduled to have this guy euthanized. The breeder then called me and begged me to reconsider. Long story short, I went and picked this guy up and still own him at his ripe ole age of 19. We ended up competing successfully at Prix St. George and spent many a truly fun hour on the trail. He turned out to be one of my most solid, level headed trail mounts and really gave it his all under saddle. I have Dover medals and other awards to his credit along the way. Now having said that the little stinker toasted my arse at least a half-dozen times over the years and once at a 4-ring recognized dressage show…but, he turned out to be worth it. He’s retired now and happily babysitting his bestie, a retired Bud Clyde.

Only you can decide if it’s worth the risk of injury including emotional/mental wear and tear. I have moved more than one along that I knew in my heart was not going to be worth the effort, finding them situations that were better suited for all; but, this guy…well we developed a connection very quickly and he got to stay.

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#44

Don’t dismiss pain. Are you sure all your equipment fits well? Bridle, bit and saddle?

My mare was similar as a youngster. Horribly tense and distracted. I didn’t understand it as I started her myself and she was fine her first year under saddle. That year was mostly a putz around year. She was physically immature and I didn’t ask much of her. Mostly rode her in a rope halter. Go to the next year and we did a proper bridle and started dressage work in earnest. To my surprise, I had a very different horse. Tense and terribly distracted. The distraction was was way more frustrating to me than the tension and spooking. She was very ‘chompy’ with the bit. At times she would bear down on it and it was like trying to control a freight train…and she is a fairly slightly built Andalusian cross. I didn’t think she could get that heavy in the bridle.

So, one day after a particularly contentious lesson I took her to the trailer, pulled her bridle and had a good look in her mouth and was horrified. She had some huge blisters and bruising on her inner cheeks where her fleshy inner lips were getting pinched between the bit and her molars. So, a lot of the tension and distraction was coming from pain. I think the heaviness was her attempt to stabilize the bit. I felt that she was very pre-occupied with something physical and a lot of her spookiness came from focusing so hard on the discomfort in her mouth that it didn’t take much of any outside stimulation to set her off.

It took burning up my credit card and over a year to find a bit she tolerated and that did not pinch the crap out of her fleshy cheeks. When I found ‘the one’ it was like the tension was switched off. I don’t usually believe in magic or quick fixes but that bit worked that way for her.

So yes, they can come out the other side. Yes, my mare still has infrequent freaky days and she turns 19 next month but she became a solid citizen. Moral of my story, check all your equipment. It may not be the reason but it may be a contributor or the whole enchilada :face_with_monocle:.

Good luck.
Susan

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#45

Adding on to this, if what is distracting your, OP’s, horse is a preference to go back to the barn, the gate, the corner nearest his buddy etc we do the reverse. Ask horse for upwards transition or circle or whatever that is a bit more work nearest those attractions and then offer a bit of a rest increasingly farther away from the attractive area. WS calls it Destination Addiction.

I’ve done the above plus the rabbit practice like RedHorses describes under saddle. I found it very effective. I did go all cowgirl by doing this “cruising”. Aka riding on the buckle at all gaits making zero attempt to steer. Which was a learning curve for me. While “cruising” is not specific to WS ( I believe the term cruising is actually more associated with Clinton Anderson) it’s far more common in Western / NH disciplines than my background in the English disciplines. Really the only drawback was finding solo arena time; can be almost impossible boarding.

1 Like
#47

What did you do specifically during “rabbit practice”? My young one could certainly use some rabbit practice to learn to let go of those anxieties a little.

#48

Check my posts (39 and 41) in this thread.

#49

Just adding a non-story to all the interesting ones.

Decades ago our stable received a big, strapping young red sorrel, flashy, beautiful Holsteiner gelding and he was assigned to me.
The story was, he was imported some months ago from Europe, he was shown in jumpers a few times and had big troubles here, mostly stopping.

There is no story there because he did wonderful in our training program.
We never found any holes in him?
He was a star later in the Midwest Summer circuit, where he won his share with the very good amateur rider he was bought for.

Some times, is not the horse but the circumstances and by no fault of anyone.
Trying to change those may help?

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#50

“Getting rid of the rabbits” is essentially the horse coming down from a heightened state & the most common behaviour to signal this transition is the lick & chew (rubbing the face and snorting/releasing air can also signal this). Any exercise that applies pressure & release can teach the horse to let go of the “rabbits”.

The pressure you apply will put the horse into a heightened/alert state, and then the key is the timing to release pressure to offer the horse a state of relax/calm. Common exercises various trainers use is teaching the horse to yield the hip, teaching the horse the lower/yield their head, using a circle to bend, and using work as the pressure. But really as long as its timed correctly any type of pressure/release exercise works.

Each of these examples has threads of multiple approaches in them but I highlighted the main concepts to give you examples:

Bending w/ small circle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6HZzMfXMNI&t=44s
Bending in a circle & lowering their head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ78WRILpZA
Moving the hip/moving the body: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwSS-JuGo_s
Using work as the pressure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miBJHhE1JU4

This is definitely a ~journey~ IMO :slight_smile:

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#51

I’ll state upfront that I only met the horse years after all of this & what I know of his story is secondhand:

The dressage schoolmaster I leased was imported as a CCI**** prospect. Was in training with more than one person accomplished enough to have a saddle named for them. His sire jumps with such ease it looks like he’s on a spring loaded gymnastics floor. People (quite reasonably) thought this poor horse would have talent for jumping, then. He could not take the mental pressure & flamed out hard between Training & Prelim. Several attempts were made to find another jumping task he was good at. He hated foxhunting so much that he regularly overtook the master despite biting so severe that his mouth bled. Ultimately, they gave him to his current owner for a $1. She’d groomed for one of the trainers & had bonded with him; the horse just seemed to like her.

Anyway, she spent 1-2 years just unwinding his fried brain. Put him in a hackamore & just went for long nature walks. Eventually, she got him back to where he competed Novice & was ok out foxhunting occasionally. She went back to school for a career change & he sustained a field injury that limited him to jumping less than 2’6". He loved dressage & had been impeccably schooled in it as a youngster. The shift to all dressage was a no-brainer. He was darn near perfect for me. Still physically capable of upper level moves & age had mellowed out that pro’s horse kind of fire & athleticism to where he was an exciting ride for an AA but forgiving of the occasional pilot error.

He’s still quirky. Happily hacks out alone at a walk on the buckle for hours. Gets anxious & hyper-competative going out in a group. Trotting or canter him in a group hack was an adventure. He seemed to understand that I was not super-fit coming back into riding after I had Lyme & I could tell he was anxious but struggling mightily to hold it together for my benefit.

Short answer, I agree with others that it can work out with skilled, sympathetic training.

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#52

I have a morgan mare i bought as a 3 year old barely started greenie. She was the hottest, spookiest horse i have ever ridden. I was going to sell her this year and ended up sending her to a trainer for 90 days to see if she could help her. What i got back was a skinny, terrified WRECK. Afraid of people, unhandleable from the ground. Out of desperation, i joined the downunder horsemanship (clinton anderson) method subscription online and started studying his method. I re-started her from the ground up…followed his method to a Tee. After 7 weeks of ground work filling in all of her many many holes, i am now riding her and she is a completely different horse. She is quiet, listens to my seat, can walk, trot and canter bridleless. Yesterday i hung flags all over the arena flapping in the wind and she did awesome with them. Prior to this she would spook and bolt at signs and stuff in an arenaz. I can run a chainsaw all around her, ride her with a flag, drive hot wheels, you name it. Took me about 120 days of 6-7 days a week intensive training and a lot of hours studying the method.

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#53

I’ve been through a couple of interesting horses. One big suggestion is to always end on a good note. Riding a complicated horse can be frustrating and if you go to many bad days, it can really bring you down. WhenI first started riding my VERY complex mare - scared of the farrier, pulled her best rodeo horse moves when she was saddled, spooking at EVERYTHING- some days I would end the ride with a one second stand still or walk without spooking, end the ride and tell her how good she was. I would keep that thought in my head through until the very next ride.

With the spooky/reactive types that I ride, I keep their attention - circles, turns, random changes of direction, changes in gait. Sometimes if there is a scary part of the arena, I will serpentine towards/across it instead of going along the rail. It keeps them from focusing to much on the monsters and usually when they get past the monster a few times, they are fine.

Also, I learn my horses. One is happier with more contact and if hasn’t been ridden in a while, he gets a few minutes of a trot figure 8, about 40 M circles, to focus him. We have worked on not needing as much contact but he is not ridden consistently. Another has some serious issues with contact but she is GREAT with seat/leg/weight cues so just don’t touch her mouth and she’s a fun ride. She may actually go to someone soon - my fingers are crossed as I think it will be a great home.

Another gets tense about going to the arena if she’s been in the field for a while so we do short walk/trot focus rides the first two rides or so and go from there.

My mare is, of course, perfect. It’s the Amish that are the problem! She KNOWS they are out to get her! So, we plan our rides accordingly - to if they are out working the field next to the farm or it is a Sunday or what. Sometimes, she talks about moving out of such a bad neighborhood but I don’t think she will ever do it…all her friends are there. She has gotten much better and doesn’t spend the entire ride spooking if the Amish are out anymore. She will even refrain from jigging if we are on a little hack and one passes by (the driveway is 1/8mile and yes, at that distance she used to have a melt down).

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#54

1. Agree with others on the groundwork - get really good at that; learn from an expert. Go back to it as often as needed. When my mare starts walking ahead of me, I know that’s the precursor to all sorts of high jinks and it’s time for a refresher.

2. Don’t wait for your horse to relax before you go to work. Get to work to make the horse relax. Forward, bending, turning, transitions, busy busy busy - horse needs to pay attention. When the ears go to something other than you, do something different to get his ears back on you. Find the formula for your horse. A go-to exercise that got my spicy mare listening when I first got her was bending to a halt - a wide opening inside rein to turn the horse in a small circle until they stop. Praise, sigh, repeat as needed. Some horses need to go for a gallop (or along trot up a hill) before their brain is ready to engage too.

3. Set yourself up for success. Make sure diet is aligned for calmness (fewer sugars and grains, more forage and supplements), make sure horse’s living situation is aligned for calmness (his turnout or living out is sufficient for him, not your hope/expectation of what’s enough). Address any ulcers. Ensure tack fit is impeccable. Don’t go out on a windy cold day expecting a quiet baby. Keep a calm adult horse in sight. Learn to read the room, and if you show up at the barn and the stars are not aligned, don’t try to force things. Change plans… do some groundwork.

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#55

I agree with this for most horses, however if it’s not helping try allowing the horse to look at what’s concerned them. My horse needs to have time to assess and if I keep him working and don’t give him that time he will grow increasingly anxious to the point where he will bolt to remove himself from the situation. I can’t let him stand for too long either, so it’s a case of learning the horse’s signals about time vs movement needs.

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#56

As someone who rides at a barn where there are several green beans that can be a handful for their owners, here is what I think when I see them go by:
Geez that horse looks like a handful, glad it’s not me handling them (because I don’t have the experience or guts!!)
and also:
That horse is teaching that person so much, and when it grows up, the owner is going to have an incredible horse on their hands.

I am impressed by riders like you. Keep on keeping on, and please post about your boy when he goes on to do great things :slight_smile:

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#57

It’s been over a year since I posted this, and I really wanted to give an update.

Wow…it’s been an incredible year of highs and lows. But thanks to good horsekeeping, dedicated trainers, and my own commitment, we are doing better than ever. That skinny, spooky, anxious horse has transformed. People used to snicker at him. Now people stop and watch because he’s just simply lovely and so pleasant.

I have learned SO MUCH with this horse. I feel like working together through the difficulties really made us a team. I finally figured out his “buttons.” I figured out how to get him in front of my leg. I figured out how to get his attention. I even spent a lot of time doing groundwork, trail riding, and even teaching a few tricks! Thinking about him, about this journey, just fills me with happiness and pride.

So, for anybody out there struggling with a tricky horse…I hope this gives you some hope.

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#58

OP, great to hear that you have made so much progress with your guy! I thought I’d follow up and update on my tricky horse too. I can almost echo what you said, except my mare was more belligerent and willful, rather than spooky and anxious. I think a lot can be owed to simple maturity. She grew a lot physically over the winter, and also seems that her brain has matured now at age six. Yesterday I hauled her across town to a new location with quite a bit going on and we managed to successfully take a lesson. Yes, there was tension and she regressed a bit from where she is working at home, but it was a big step from when I’d haul her out last fall and even in a quiet environment I’d sometimes spend two hours and never get to the point where I felt she’d be safe to ride. Cantering has been the toughest, but I have been lucky that my instructor has been around horses with similar bloodlines and issues lately, and two weeks ago, after not seeing us all winter, we had two watershed lessons that turned the tide on our cantering issues. The next hill to climb is jumping, but I’m going to allow us to rest on our laurels for a month or so before tackling that.

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#59

Great update!

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#61

Tai Chi for the human. It might help your mind be calm and focused, and in theory he will pick up on this.

And if not, and he’s still a spaz, you will be “in the zone” and less likely to care. :slight_smile:

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#62

5 and 6 are heeeeeeellll
7 1/4- 8 they come around and you will effing love them
I dont like the word groundwork because it comes in such a variety and its not specific… it can mean chasing a horse around in fear to canter or standing at the halt amd making them use that buzzword thoracic sling properly and exercises that make them think.
5 and 6 year olds learn consequences
If you are going to be an a-hole, welcome to circle time out
If you are going to grab my reins and run on your forehand welcome to leg yield time out
If you cant wtc a circle in balance well strip everything down and go back to basics.

5 and 6 shows you the holes in the work and where to fix the basics.

Find a trainer thats gone to hell and back with a few 6 year olds amd knows how to get through it.

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#63

I had a similar situation this past weekend and I also sobbed. SOBBED! It was our first show after he got back from the trainer. Sometimes you just want to hit the easy button.

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