Tell me of the Point Two Hybrid vest

I recently sold my xc vest (had for years, didn’t really fit anymore, and I changed my colors), so now I’m looking for a new vest. I am possibly interested in getting an air vest too, so I looked at the Point Two Hybrid vest. I about died when I saw the price, but then I realized it’s about the same as buying a regular vest plus an air vest.

Anybody have one? How does it fit? Anybody have an air vest that they ride over a regular vest - does that get annoying wearing two vests?

I won’t be going Int/Adv for the next few years, but I do regularly break babies and show them at their first events, which if you ask me can be scarier than going adv!!:eek: I don’t bounce like I used to, so I’d like something that I can really trust will help reduce all the impact of a fall possible.

I’d like something that I can really trust

A good helmet, a can of Sporti-Haft spray, full seat breeches and cross your fingers. :slight_smile:

NO EVIDENCE that air vests, hybrid or no, meaningfully reduce the risk of injury or that they are, in fact, safer than NOT wearing one.

I think they show enormous promise, but am not ready to buy one until they have some more data to show me that they are FAIL SAFE in terms of accidental deployment, shown to meaningfully reduce the risk of injury, and aren’t just another “sounds like it might work” gadget, the likes of which have included all manner of things that do not pan out when examined in the cold, hard light of study and reality.

I agree with delta. Personally until they give me research I’m not buying it. I want evidence!!!

if there is no evcidence that it will not hurt me when I fall, then how do I know it will not cause me an injury that would not have happened without it. I can’t take that risk.

If they were sure of their product then they would be blasting their stats all over the place. I see no stats.

Ditto the above and adding that the last thing I would want when breaking a baby is to have the thing deploy and scare the total bejezus out of them.

I’ve had one since last summer and I really like the fit. It has better coverage than my old vest did and conforms to my shape better. I like not having too many things to layer: a vest, another vest, then a pinney holder. The Point 2 small inflatable vest (as small as they came last year) was too big for me but the xs hybrid fits great.

At first it seemed heavy but once its on I don’t notice that at all. I’ve forgotten to disconnect it once and it was no big deal. It deflated quickly. I realize that this vest has some controversy here, but my decision was also influenced by the Race Safe vest alone being a better fit.

Nancy

i’ve tried on the hybrid and it’s fantastic!! It really doesn’t feel much different. I have the regular point two that goes over my CO vest (which i love btw) and it does feel a little bulky but its just something to get used to and you forget about it :lol:

and even if the data doesnt show it, i think they help! if not they’re a softer landing :lol:

if you decide you want the “regular” my advice is to look out on their FB page. they hold easy competitions…thats how i scored mine!!!

And your regular vest, of course. :yes::yes::yes:

Like Nancy, I love mine. It does seem a bit heavy when first put on, but not once you are riding it is not a factor. I love the way it comes up around my neck when it blows up. I doubt it is going to really save my live, but it might prevent me from getting hurt. The vest is cheaper then one trip to the hospital or one set of xrays.

I love the way it comes up around my neck when it blows up

Oddly, that’s one of the things that bothers me about it the most–the potential to start shoving the neck and soft tissues around upon inflation. Too little exploration of the possible down-sides of this to suit me.

Very Interesting…

[QUOTE=deltawave;6212125]
Oddly, that’s one of the things that bothers me about it the most–the potential to start shoving the neck and soft tissues around upon inflation. Too little exploration of the possible down-sides of this to suit me.[/QUOTE]

This is very interesting - the only reason I was potentially interested in getting an air vest was the neck protection. Hadn’t thought of this but makes total sense. Thanks for pointing this out! :cool:

[QUOTE=doritocoolerranch24;6211205]
i’ve tried on the hybrid and it’s fantastic!! …

and even if the data doesnt show it, i think they help![/QUOTE]

‘Fantastic’? Fantastic how? Especially if you’re going on faith that the vest fulfills its function of safety.

Oh, look at that. I just answered my own question. The lack of evidence provides the element of fantasy.

The vest can’t/doesn’t/won’t provide protection from neck injuries. Perhaps PointTwo didn’t test for it but lots of other entities did, and the verdict is that you need a rigid device – like the HANS used by racing drivers – for neck protection.

See above.

:slight_smile:

I was hoping it would protect me against some whiplash. Usually, when I do go off, it is my lower back/butt that hits, then my head whips back to the ground. It gave good protection to my back and the roll protect my neck. I have no idea if it will help, and will let you know when it happens:(!

If you want to prevent whip lash (the ultimate form is cervical dislocation) you need a HANS device or a horse collar. But then that leaves you open to a rebound whip lash as the head jerks forward. However, it should also be recognized that even HANS devices or horse collars are not good in side impacts. So don’t land sideways!

Why should there be concern with the inflating collar in the vests? Consider that whip lash is basically when the head moves to one side and LIFTS and STRETCHES the spinal column - the head keeps moving in one direction the the body goes another so it “pops” off the cervical vertebrae. It is NOT just bending. If the airvest ADDS to the lift (say by just a few MILLIMETERS), you can now effectively sever the spine on impact (e.g. certain auto racers killed in NASCAR, F1 etc.). The x-rays of these types injuries (common is high speed motor vehicle accidents) are pretty impressive.

When it comes to protecting your neck/back/the rest of your body from whiplash or falling, I would suggest talking to your instructor to ask, specifically about how you’re likely to fall, as in, on what surfaces and at what speeds. If your instructor is willing, they would be the best person to learn to fall safely from.

If your instructor can’t/won’t teach you to fall, my advice would be to go to a local jiu-jitsu, judo, or aikido school, and ask them if you can take lessons on learning to fall and roll. Tell them what you’re like to fall/roll on, and what speeds you need to worry about. Most of them should be very open to teaching you, so long as you’re fit enough to train safely, but be aware that this will take a while. If you’re real lucky, you’ll find a teacher who will (eventually) make you train in your riding gear. It’s all well and good to roll/fall perfectly in a uniform, designed for martial arts, but that won’t help if you don’t know how to do so safely in your vest and helmet.

I recently took an aikido class and it took me an hour or so to get rolling backwards close to right (so that I wouldn’t bruise/bump my back, shoulders, or butt as I did so). I’m learning a Korean style right now that also teaches falling and rolls, but I’m not certain enough of my skills to advise you how to fall or roll safely. The best bet, like I said, is to get some training.

Note: if you go with a martial arts school, don’t sign anything right away - ask to visit classes first, see if you like the atmosphere. And, by all means, check out the instructor’s credentials online. The last thing you want is to learn from someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing, and most good instructors will understand and applaud your caution.

Solara, that is SUCH a good idea. :slight_smile: My trainer is borrowing my Shetland this weekend to give the pony-camp kids lessons in FALLING OFF. The pony is itty bitty, bomb-proof, extremely cute and hairy, and just stands there (or walks along slowly) as kid after kid flops, rolls, slithers and bounces off her, over and over again. She is worth her (considerable) weight in gold. :smiley:

[QUOTE=RAyers;6212203]
If you want to prevent whip lash (the ultimate form is cervical dislocation) you need a HANS device or a horse collar. But then that leaves you open to a rebound whip lash as the head jerks forward. However, it should also be recognized that even HANS devices or horse collars are not good in side impacts. So don’t land sideways!

Why should there be concern with the inflating collar in the vests? Consider that whip lash is basically when the head moves to one side and LIFTS and STRETCHES the spinal column - the head keeps moving in one direction the the body goes another so it “pops” off the cervical vertebrae. It is NOT just bending. If the airvest ADDS to the lift (say by just a few MILLIMETERS), you can now effectively sever the spine on impact (e.g. certain auto racers killed in NASCAR, F1 etc.). The x-rays of these types injuries (common is high speed motor vehicle accidents) are pretty impressive.[/QUOTE]

And this is why I lurk on COTH. I didn’t buy into the “don’t leave home without one” club because of the lack of data but I thought at worst they did no harm. This is very scary and obviously does not fall into the do no harm category. Thanks for the breakdown. :eek:

Point Two is opening a very upscale pricey store in my county. The write up in the local paper has the owners making some VERY dubious claims about the vest, including claims that it is proven to prevent cervical and spinal injuries - and then they go on to state that the company is “working the bugs out” (using customers as guinea pigs from the looks of it)

There is mention of detractors, but their concerns get about one or two sentences. What is hawked is the “proven” tests conducted by a for hire laboratory.

Heavy heavy marketing - as usual.

And I am wondering which “sales person” told a fellow foxhunter that is was ok to wear this thing UNDER their heavyweight Melton frock, a frock with buttons sewn in with fishing line (the buttons are extremely expensive). Hope to God that man doesn’t end up with a crushed chest when the thing goes off.

How on earth can this company get away with making these claims?

How on earth can this company get away with making these claims?

Because nobody has died or been paralyzed wearing one. Yet. :frowning:

I thought one person had fallen and broken her neck while wearing a Point Two? In Europe perhaps? I have a terrible memory.

But if you’ve got a safety engineer and a doctor telling you to run, run away, I’d listen. I’m not sure I count as a biologist, but I learned a heck of a lot about physiology and I was really good in many years of physics, so you won’t catch me in that booth.

There was Faith Cook who fractured vertebrae.

There was Jo Rugman who perished from crush injuries.

Both of these riders were wearing regular Point Two jackets over top of conventional body protectors at the time of their injuries.