How tall do TWH’s get?
Up here there is (was) a breeder of Walkaloosas. I’ll need one in the very near future!
[QUOTE=goodhors;3954402]
You might want to try hopping some fences before going. See what style jump your TWH has in him/her.
Some of the ones I have seen go, do the mule jump thing. No arc. Get up to the jump, stop, hop over, and then continue. Kind of a surprise to some riders!! Horse just had a very different style jump than most riding animals. This was on several TWH animals, so maybe a structure thing to go with gaiting body design.
Gaiting animals do best on smoother ground, able to get in rhythm of the gait. Really rough, torn up, might not allow gaiting, which is not the animals fault. They should canter when asked to. Far as I know, the canters are smooth to ride, cover the ground to keep up.
Get a gaited horse Farrier, to keep the proper balance and length on hooves needed for horse to gait well. Too many farrier folks cut off all the toe length on those nice big hooves. Not used to those kind of hooves. Big boned horse needs his big hooves, even if not tall. Good Walkers just don’t trot for any reason. Poorly built, badly shod, TWH might trot. Pacy ones might be helped balance better with good shoe help, get them gaiting well.
Enjoy your new horses.[/QUOTE]
So many misconceptions, it’s not even funny.
First of, the TWH is one of the most versatile horses - literally.
Second: The TWH as a breed was developed on rough, rocky, torn up, mountain land. If there’s any horse able to handle rough terrain while easy gaiting, it’s the TWH.
Third: Most TWHs will naturally trot; in fact, that is what most look for first, since those are a lot easier to get in the walking gait. A TWH that trots has a better conformation by all standards.
And last but most important: Big hooves is NOT what makes a TWH perform its easy gaits; they are not born with those big feet and gait perfect when they hit the ground. Big hooves “makes” a show horse, with eventualy a lot of problems.
[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;3955215]
How tall do TWH’s get?
Up here there is (was) a breeder of Walkaloosas. I’ll need one in the very near future![/QUOTE]
Anywhere from 14.3 to 17 hands.
[QUOTE=3dogfarm;3954035]
Luvmywalkers, I thought I’d get into trouble :eek::eek::D!
Please forgive me and give all of your TWH extra treats tonight and say they are from me.
Shall I come out and shovel frozen manure to make amends? Or, since it is Spring, sloppy, gloppy manure???[/QUOTE]
No frozen manure here in S/E Texas…in fact, after the rains I’m having a hard time finding any; must have floated elsewhere :lol:
I agree with everything said here EXCEPT #3. While I personally do teach all my TWHs to trot because I like them to be versatile, they most definitely do NOT trot naturally! And any breed association in existence (NWHA, TWHBEA, even the International Walking Horse registry that may or may not still exist) would strangle you for saying “…in fact, that is what most look for first!”:lol: TWH people, as a whole, definitely do NOT want their horses to trot and it’s even more definitely NOT something anyone looks for first!:eek: In fact, some folks won’t teach the canter for fear it might mess with the gait.
TWHs are bred to gait. They “should” do a four-beat gait within their first day of life. Not a stepping pace, not a hard pace, not a trot.
Saying they trot naturally is heresy:yes:; not to mention patently untrue for the breed as a whole.
[QUOTE=SteppinEasy;3955476]
I agree with everything said here EXCEPT #3. While I personally do teach all my TWHs to trot because I like them to be versatile, they most definitely do NOT trot naturally! And any breed association in existence (NWHA, TWHBEA, even the International Walking Horse registry that may or may not still exist) would strangle you for saying “…in fact, that is what most look for first!”:lol: TWH people, as a whole, definitely do NOT want their horses to trot and it’s even more definitely NOT something anyone looks for first!:eek: In fact, some folks won’t teach the canter for fear it might mess with the gait.
TWHs are bred to gait. They “should” do a four-beat gait within their first day of life. Not a stepping pace, not a hard pace, not a trot.
Saying they trot naturally is heresy:yes:; not to mention patently untrue for the breed as a whole.[/QUOTE]
TWHs either trot or pace naturally, in addition to their walks and canter. The pacers are purposely bred so for the big lick and are harder to train for the easy gaits. The trotting walkers are much easier to square up, hence to gait.
Many won’t allow their walker to trot under saddle for the same reason as they don’t want them to canter: Fear of “losing” the gait. Any TWH that performs the flat- and running walk flawlessly and consistently under saddle, can trot and canter under saddle without a problem.
When starting to train under saddle, you’re not supposed to keep them for too long in the gait…what do you think they do inbetween?
Many owners don’t even see their TWHs walk when they’re running free…what gait do you suppose they’re doing?
When I said “first thing they look for…”: This is when you look at a young one, too young for training.
And while trot, rack, and pace are not allowed in the walking classes, they are accepted as part of the package.
I breed TWHs and have first hand knowledge of what they do within the first day of their life - nothing heresy about it.
Having Clevelands coming along is cool! You will like them.
By big feet, I was meaning the QH farrier, reducing the nicely sized hoof, maybe a size 2 or better, down to wearing a one or less shoe. TWH has a naturally larger hoof, from being BRED for real use. No feet size or quality, means no use having a gaiting horse that can’t go. The TWH breeders did not lose sight of FUNCTION with hoof size needed under their horses. Happy large feet, on good bone, stay sound in hard work.
Not talking about show shoes for Big Lick horses, or the additional toe length or weighted shoes that add to motion.
Just saying that folks who are not used to seeing TWH in a natural state, might try removing too much hoof. Better to go with a Farrier familiar with doing TWHs correctly.
I have limited experience with the TWH folks, but those I know, own and show at the National levels. Other friends breed and use their nice TWHs for Trail Riding, easily sell all the foals for good money. With the pricy horses, they are doing all kinds of classes, including Plantation shod. There are none of these owners/breeders who want ANY kind of trot on their horses. Even pacy makes them nervous on bloodlines. The best babies are gaiting pretty quickly after birth. Gaiting is natural for them, not an artificial gait. No trot to be seen.
Trotting is easier to do than gaiting, and if horse does trot for long, he can be a real problem to get gaiting or keep gaiting without special shoeing. Young horse has to get confirmed in his gaits under saddle, develop the muscles needed to do it for longer times. Some just quit gaiting with poor hoof care over time, or being less well structured to gait easily. Not easy, not fun for those horses, so they trot. Can’t get the gaits back.
From other conversations with long distance riders, the Endurance folks, they tell me the Gaited horses do not do well on the kind of ground they cover because it is too broken and horses have problems gaiting on it. I look at the finishers, breeds listed, on the big races but do not see Gaited breeds being superior, or used in big numbers. Folks who want to win, riding over rough ground of long distance races, do not use Gaited horses. They use trotting breeds, Arabs or Arab crosses, to win with. Winners will choose the breed with the gaits that allow them to win. Winning is the goal, so riders don’t care about breed in most cases.
Watching Gaited horses go, of several breeds, they develop a rhythm, need to be able to maintain that rhythm, to gait well or at any speed. Interrupting the footfall pattern, with furrows, big broken rocks, terrain of up and down sharply, does not let them gait. Perhaps it is a difference in terrains, Eastern mountains, hill country, as compared to the Rockies and their more rugged ground, in seeing TWH go over rough ground well.
I am not saying TWH can’t be ridden on bad ground, certainly they are used out West and in mountains. Just that they may not be able to gait at their best on rougher ground, where footfall pattern is continuously being interrupted by stuff like rocks or holes.
I like TWHs, think the breed is very nice. Sounds like some really nice animals to add to the collection!
I say GO FOR IT. I successfully showed a TWH in the A circuit jumpers and he was simply brilliant. He was fast, athletic, catty and very careful. He did w/t/c but when he was pumped at the beginning of my rounds he would “pace” (sorry - I don’t know enough about gaited horses to know what the proper name for what he was doing). If I could find another horse like him I’d pick it up in a heartbeat.
all of my Walkers gaited over even the roughest terrain, that is why they are the breed of choice for field trialing, you spend many many hours in the saddle in rough areas, mud, hills, ruts, brambles etc. There are many times now I wish I still had mine. They were all naturally shod, and many were fine just barefoot. They also were not muley when they jumped, but they did not jump over the type of obstacles one finds in the hunt field. Just as in any breed they vary in style and athletic ability, and they definitely can trot, but many people dont want them to under saddle.
Good for you, but what you’re breeding, if it follows what you’ve stated here, isn’t a TWH. If you want to change the breed and its standards, go for it, but it’s more than a little disingenuous to claim that the breed is simply what you say it is.
This is my last post on this thread, as the comments have little to do with whether the TWH is suitable for hunting.
To the OP…enjoy your Walkers! They are an extremely personable and intelligent breed that can easily do whatever you ask of them. I wish you and your husband the best.
Walkers in the hunt field
Walkers can definitely go in the hunt field.
My boyfriend breeds walking horses… the conflict I see is that most walking horses true running walk would not be fast enough to keep up with fast trotting horses, and the canter sometimes doesnt come very natural to walking horses, especially if they’re more “show” breed and very lateral. I have thought about taking my walkers in the hunt field, but I felt like they’d have to pace their butts off to keep up (walkers break gait if you push them to go too fast and will pace - not all of them, but a LOT). Some will pace, rack, trot, etc if they’re going too fast. Depends on the horse. I would also make sure any walker purchased with the hunt field in mind canters very naturally. Some of them DO NOT. I have a few show bred walking horses that, honest to god, do not even canter in the pasture. I mean, ever. I’ve gotten them to canter undersaddle a handful of times, but they were so uncomfortable. Also, I would see how they jump… all my walkers are very WILLING to jump, but not exactly stylists! LOL
LuvMyWalkers
[QUOTE=luvmywalkers;3955737]
TWHs either trot or pace naturally, in addition to their walks and canter. The pacers are purposely bred so for the big lick and are harder to train for the easy gaits. The trotting walkers are much easier to square up, hence to gait.
Many won’t allow their walker to trot under saddle for the same reason as they don’t want them to canter: Fear of “losing” the gait. Any TWH that performs the flat- and running walk flawlessly and consistently under saddle, can trot and canter under saddle without a problem.
When starting to train under saddle, you’re not supposed to keep them for too long in the gait…what do you think they do inbetween?
Many owners don’t even see their TWHs walk when they’re running free…what gait do you suppose they’re doing?
When I said “first thing they look for…”: This is when you look at a young one, too young for training.
And while trot, rack, and pace are not allowed in the walking classes, they are accepted as part of the package.
I breed TWHs and have first hand knowledge of what they do within the first day of their life - nothing heresy about it.[/QUOTE]
As a walking horse “breeder” as well, I 100% agree
I say go for the TWH! For me the main requirements for a hunt horse is that it is safe and trustworthy, breed is irrelevant.
From other conversations with long distance riders, the Endurance folks, they tell me the Gaited horses do not do well on the kind of ground they cover because it is too broken and horses have problems gaiting on it. I look at the finishers, breeds listed, on the big races but do not see Gaited breeds being superior, or used in big numbers. Folks who want to win, riding over rough ground of long distance races, do not use Gaited horses. They use trotting breeds, Arabs or Arab crosses, to win with. Winners will choose the breed with the gaits that allow them to win. Winning is the goal, so riders don’t care about breed in most cases.
I think the main reason gaited horses aren’t as popular in endurance is because of their physiology, not their gait. They just don’t recover their pulse/respiration like an Arab can, because that’s what Arabs have been bred for for thousands of years. If your goal is to win, then you ride the horse with the best physiology for endurance riding, which are Arabs or Arab crosses.
Gaiting works well on uneven terrain because there is always at least one foot on the ground. My Paso Fino can corto effortlessly over stuff that would have most trotters tripping and stumbling. I’m hoping to hunt her this fall–that will depend on how she handles everything.
If anybody gives me grief about riding a Paso, I’ll just chuckle as I drink from my flask without spilling a drop as we cruise along. :lol:
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photo in my profile
TWHxClyde-paint would occasionally find an odd gear between the usual 3 speeds.
bold and forward with plenty of energy for a big horse.
hunted 10 years, peaking in 2000 with 41 hunts.
HUGE trot stride and a very smooth and comfortable canter
sadly over the bridge.
.
Our main purpose for considering TWH was for DH to have a horse that he could ride and be comfortable. After the owner said how they go in groups/alone/used to traffice etc., I thought about the hunt field. We are wayyy down near the TN border with no hunts nearby. :no
Only time will tell. I just like having them around.
This morning I heard a thump outside my bedroom window and there were our mares staring in (they have the run of the property so they can get to all the grass). Can’t even convince them to go down the hill where the grass is more plentiful. :lol:
DH expects I’ll have them residing in the house next.
[QUOTE=JSwan;3954240]
If anyone sniffs disapprovingly tell them the horse is imported from some little Eastern European country (make one up because no one knows their geography anymore). Explain that his pedigree goes back to Genghis Khan’s pony’s second cousin twice removed, and the blood can be found in all the best European Jumpers.
;)[/QUOTE]
Ah, the Fredonian Warmblood. 
Walkers can be capable of First Field but you’d have to get the right one. Fifty years of breeding for compatability with the devices found in the show ring has damaged the genetic heritage of the horse. There are certain lines that would be clearly unsuitable. If you stick with Pleasure lines or old blood that avoided the show ring you could do OK. In our local hunt I’ve seen Walkers, Racking Horses, Gaited ASBs, and some gaited crosses.
If you’re riding with the Hilltoppers (and don’t jump) the Walker (or most other gaited horses) would be suitable (if not traditional). Since we’re Hilltoppers we’ve not had issues with our Marchadors. They would be quite suitable for First Field, even if I’m not.
G.
[QUOTE=Leather;3956091]
I say go for the TWH! For me the main requirements for a hunt horse is that it is safe and trustworthy, breed is irrelevant.
I think the main reason gaited horses aren’t as popular in endurance is because of their physiology, not their gait. They just don’t recover their pulse/respiration like an Arab can, because that’s what Arabs have been bred for for thousands of years. If your goal is to win, then you ride the horse with the best physiology for endurance riding, which are Arabs or Arab crosses.
Gaiting works well on uneven terrain because there is always at least one foot on the ground. My Paso Fino can corto effortlessly over stuff that would have most trotters tripping and stumbling. I’m hoping to hunt her this fall–that will depend on how she handles everything.
If anybody gives me grief about riding a Paso, I’ll just chuckle as I drink from my flask without spilling a drop as we cruise along. :lol:[/QUOTE]
A couple of years ago at the Ohio Equine Affaire I talked with a guy from one of the local Arabian clubs that does competitive trail and endurance. He said that, although Arabians are known for doing better in endurance, TWHs do extremely well in the competitive trail events.
Of course, it all depends on the horse. Just because some TWHs mule-jump, doesn’t mean they all do. My TWH was bred and born in Shelbyville, TN and is out of big lick stock. At the time I bought him, I wasn’t as aware of the issues with big lick horses and may not have bought my boy if I was. . .which would have been a big loss for me, because I’d have missed out on an amazing horse!
At liberty, he trots rather than gaits. He gaits easily on trail, no matter what the footing or ground conditions. He WILL slip into a pace if we ride with people who rack their horses, which is why I don’t generally ride with people who ride at the rack. He has no problem with the canter, though I’ve been told by other TWH owners at my barn that you “shouldn’t” canter a TWH, or that the TWH cannot canter.
So, I see no reason why a TWH couldn’t ride in a hunt as well.
[QUOTE=JollyBadger;3956813]
At liberty, he trots rather than gaits. He gaits easily on trail, no matter what the footing or ground conditions. He WILL slip into a pace if we ride with people who rack their horses, which is why I don’t generally ride with people who ride at the rack. He has no problem with the canter, though I’ve been told by other TWH owners at my barn that you “shouldn’t” canter a TWH, or that the TWH cannot canter.
So, I see no reason why a TWH couldn’t ride in a hunt as well.[/QUOTE]
The Middle Kingdom of TN is an extrodinarily isolated world when it comes to things equine. Some of the deepest ignorance is found along the Shellbyville-Lewisburg Axis. With the exception of some of the area around Nashville where you’ll find some English and other disciplines this is Big Lick country. People talk about “setting gait” and not cantering a Walker and the necessity of long toes and low heels ad infinitum. Saddles are less a device for helping a rider effectively sit a horse than it is a device to hollow the back to get more “front end action.” They have no idea about the difference between “animation” and “action.” If you’re not “initiated” into this world you need a strong stomach. :mad:
Many Big Lick lines are very questionable in terms of conformation and temperment. Glad you found one that worked for you. 
G.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;3956888]
The Middle Kingdom of TN is an extrodinarily isolated world when it comes to things equine. Some of the deepest ignorance is found along the Shellbyville-Lewisburg Axis. With the exception of some of the area around Nashville where you’ll find some English and other disciplines this is Big Lick country. People talk about “setting gait” and not cantering a Walker and the necessity of long toes and low heels ad infinitum. Saddles are less a device for helping a rider effectively sit a horse than it is a device to hollow the back to get more “front end action.” They have no idea about the difference between “animation” and “action.” If you’re not “initiated” into this world you need a strong stomach. :mad:
Many Big Lick lines are very questionable in terms of conformation and temperment. Glad you found one that worked for you.
G.[/QUOTE]
I think I “lucked out” with my boy as well, and I think he “lucked out,” too. He didn’t make the cut for the “big lick” ring so was sold to a man in Indiana, who later sold him to me as a pleasure horse. Since then, I’ve been learning more about the history of the breed, and how and why the Big Lick horse even came into existence. The things they’ll do to a horse all in the name of ribbons and trophies is sickening.:no:
My Big Lick bred horse (Coins Hard Cash/The Pusher) happily trots at liberty. And Paces at liberty. Never ever has he offered to trot under saddle. He has a really pretty, fun, canter. He has a decent rack and occasionally relaxes enough to show me a true running walk, not a slightly tense stepping pace. He came to me very strongly inclined to step pace. He has a lovely free jumping form, nice knee tuck. I don’t ride english so I can’t comment on his u/s jumping form. He is only 15h but his flat walk will leave most trottin’ horse’s walk behind. Lots of overstride to his flat walk.
They do not need weird or long toes. that’s BS, sorry. “they” will leave a longer silly duck toe on some walkers to slow down the front end, delay the breakover. Stupid and purely for fashion when skill can’t drive the back end better through the front end.
Us doing a trail horse thingie…he’s a tense horse, look at that lip flap. But lordy at how far he’s come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNP1Jf-nvJY
FF this one to 1:05 or so to see that big walk and his nice canter. The rest is us learning about each other…he’s tense and I’m trying too hard well, we both are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VQOh9EOOrI&feature=channel_page
He’d be great on the hunt field- forward, honest, sure footed, game as hell.
Best wishes sorting out your plans!
