Rood and Riddle sucked back as they say. I agree - not much credibility in that statement either. They need to clarify “aberration” and “roots.”
Furthermore, Dr Hopper needs to give Monte Roberts a call. They each were caught in a very similar trap and are going to be pawns in this awful game.
The HPA laws need changing - limit the pads, the shoe and do away with chains in the show ring. Quit the tail cutting and limit those bits and spurs.
Come on USEF - get into this ring please.
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6547380]
Gnali - the post was directed at Fairfax and saddlebreds. It is an e.n.t.r.e.l.y. different movement without the weighted shoe. If the movement were natural and trained:
[INDENT][INDENT]WHY OH WHY would they lament the potential loss of action devices?[/INDENT][/INDENT][/QUOTE]
I use training devices i.e. rollers and chains and also stretchies however the big line is…no amount of build up in the shoe will make the horse move higher.
He got it or he (she) ain’t
As a participant in active sports when I was young…I used resistence training. That is how muscles grow…and strength becomes a norm so one does not tear muscles (hopefully) when they have to stress them during competition.
I had an Arab stud I had built up…thinking it would make him move like a whiz… NOPE…I learned early on…if they can’t do it…shoeing is not going to help them.
I have only ridden a TWH a couple of times.
Plantation…never rode a BL and never saw one until the 70’s.
All I am saying is once you start to demand EVERYONE ban chains, rollers, stretchies for TRAINING…you are opening a pandora’s box.
I support NO chemicals and reduced weighted chains in the ring…also no chemicals PERIOD for training.
One of the Arab men stated his bad back had stopped him from riding. His wife purchased him a TWH…and he now is very active.
[QUOTE=walknsound;6548935]
http://books.google.com/books?id=CFEEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA77&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false[/QUOTE]
Very good addition to this thread. It definitely gives a much needed perspective on why the laws need to be improved.
Fairfax - IMO you are backwards on your thinking on these devices/attachements etc. The so called “training” you refer to is not really training at all. You can stretchie and chain them to death and it will not make a horse trot up.
Here is a link to a horse I owned. TRUST me he only trotted like this with the weighted shoe. No “training” necessary. No chain necessary. And no stretchies or house slippers needed.
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii144/hurleycane2/buddyTROT.jpg
No way has anyone seen a baby in a field or any unshod horse trot like that. It just does not happen. You see all the action is in the ironwork of the shoe! You and I and everyone else on Gods green earth knows you can take the best bred saddlebred in the world and he will not fling his leg up like that without the right shoe.
What my horse had in the picture is ALL shoe and done purely with the momentum and arc caused by the farrier who made the shoe.
Just a shoe.
SO you better get on board and fight for some limits on the TWH - get those chains out of the show ring, get those stacks under an inch and a shoe under a pound. Anything more than that IS abuse and a horror to watch.
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6549105]
Fairfax - IMO you are backwards on your thinking on these devices/attachements etc. The so called “training” you refer to is not really training at all. You can stretchie and chain them to death and it will not make a horse trot up.
Here is a link to a horse I owned. TRUST me he only trotted like this with the weighted shoe. No “training” necessary. No chain necessary. And no stretchies or house slippers needed.
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii144/hurleycane2/buddyTROT.jpg
No way has anyone seen a baby in a field or any unshod horse trot like that. It just does not happen. You see all the action is in the ironwork of the shoe! You and I and everyone else on Gods green earth knows you can take the best bred saddlebred in the world and he will not fling his leg up like that without the right shoe.
What my horse had in the picture is ALL shoe and done purely with the momentum and arc caused by the farrier who made the shoe.
Just a shoe.
SO you better get on board and fight for some limits on the TWH - get those chains out of the show ring, get those stacks under an inch and a shoe under a pound. Anything more than that IS abuse and a horror to watch.[/QUOTE]
Try again.
This baby-5th picture down-in front of the pond-HUGE trot.http://www.shiningstarsaddlebreds.com/2011-foals.php
Really man-made huh.
oh and scroll down to the Big Red filly-2nd video and the pics of her in front of the pond. Lots of hock and knee action. I realize these are Saddlebreds, but this is in response to your Saddlebred remark.
the article in the 1969 LIFE,speaks volumes to what needs to be done with the HPA LAW.it sure proves that this battle to get SORING stopped has been a long haul 43 YRS.
NOW its in court,never before,fines are bein leveed never before.its has come along way BABY.i knew that man settin on the porch.been around along time folks. i may just see the END of all aspects of SORING in my life time
PTL
[QUOTE=Gnalli;6549262]
Try again.
This baby-5th picture down-in front of the pond-HUGE trot.http://www.shiningstarsaddlebreds.com/2011-foals.php
Really man-made huh.
oh and scroll down to the Big Red filly-2nd video and the pics of her in front of the pond. Lots of hock and knee action. I realize these are Saddlebreds, but this is in response to your Saddlebred remark.[/QUOTE]
Gnali (and Renae) - LOOOOOK at my horse’s picture.
He is not in tall grass or going up hill nor heaving into his first trotting step(the babies and their stills). He is moving out, far above level with his knee AND slapping his forearm on his chest AND his foot is completely curled under. THAT is THE SHOE.
He trotted much like those babies with an open high leg when THAT shoe was NOT ON.
If you can not give the shoe props, well it is you two who really do not have a clue.
All that resistance “training” Fairfax mentioned had nothing to do with that pic - it was THE SHOE. Shoe off - Buddy no trot like that. And my point is neither do the TWH.
And more importantly in the case of the TWH you will find without all those devices (pads chains etc) they have no high step at all in gait. The walking gait is a sweeping pushing pulling gait. No knee or foot above the rail.
[QUOTE=aarpaso;6549339]
the article in the 1969 LIFE,speaks volumes to what needs to be done with the HPA LAW.it sure proves that this battle to get SORING stopped has been a long haul 43 YRS.
NOW its in court,never before,fines are bein leveed never before.its has come along way BABY.i knew that man settin on the porch.been around along time folks. i may just see the END of all aspects of SORING in my life time
PTL[/QUOTE]
It really is a travesty that the same story is being told all these years later. Let’s see how jail time and expulsion from the show ring AND a hefty fine hits this group.
The Running Walk is a centered gait. It is, in essence, the dog walk at a faster cadence. Look at the films of horses like Strolling Jim and you’ll see what the correct form of that way of going should be.
The running walk of the TWH is a distance gait, not a speed gait. It was designed to allow the rider to cover distance comfortably.
The Walker should have two, distinct “gears” in the intermediate gait: the flat walk at 5-6 mph and the running walk at 9-10 mph. If a rider “over drives” the running walk the horse will most likely either enter a soft lope (a Good Thing, IMO) or some form of pace (a Bad Thing, IMO).
Note that most Walker judges will not agree with me. :lol:
If you watch the progression of gait through the '40s it moves farther and farther away from Strolling Jim’s way of going. By the time you get to Midnight Sun and Merry Go Boy you are no longer seeing that true running walk. The step from there to Talk of the Town is but a short one. Now the standard is not a true running walk, but the Big Lick gait.
Remember that this progression cannot be understood out of context. WWII, drought, recession, and trainer unemployment drove this change. The Walker morphed from a good, honest working horse (for which there was no market) to a circus horse (which could earn big money) over a 15 year period. There was some resistance to this move, but it was feeble and ineffective.
If folks want to go back to Strolling Jim’s way of going all you need is about 50 years of good quality breeding.
G.
Thought I’d put up these videos so people can compare.
Strolling Jim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug-ltUolhQw
WGC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C6_FQhcoLQ
Not even close.
[QUOTE=Malda;6549474]
Thought I’d put up these videos so people can compare.
Strolling Jim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug-ltUolhQw
WGC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C6_FQhcoLQ
Not even close.[/QUOTE]
Excellent comparison. Thanks for posting.
[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6546873]
If you were into TWHs, you would understand and be glad to see the interest in this thread.[/QUOTE]
I’ve owned 2 TWHs…both natural movers with regular shoes. I have a gaited mule right now who’s mom was a TWH. So, I am into TWH and hate the old school idiots abusing this lovely breed.
BUT…you are making noise these people don’t care about. You’re preaching to the choir and they don’t care. Look at the recent nationals…still ghastly shoeing and abused horses, these ghastly things still being placed by the judges. Look at Clydes with the horrid Scoth Bottom shoes…just as stupid and ridiculous as the walker shoeing…but judges keep awarding this “look” in shows so they keep on doing it.
Until judges have the balls to stop placing these poor horses, nothing is going to change.
That mare was incredible. WOW!
Trakehner - this time is a bit different. There is more professional push to make this crap what it is - felonious!
That is why this thread holds my interest.
Yes but judges can only judge what is presented to them to judge. If we follow the money, the owners are paying for this mess. The breed registry condones it (although they claim they just process bloodline information - yeah right). Many HIOs spotlight the performance horses. Farriers get paid big bucks to nail on the packages. Who pays those who get paid ? As in every breed discipline there are owners who just write checks and dont frequent the training facilities and beleive me when i say that many owners want to own a winner and they turn their heads to what the horse goes through to win. Many pressure trainers to produce a winner or they will change trainers. They know and they pay. Trainers charge fat training and exhibiting fees. Judges and DQPs can make a little side money too. Where is all this $$$$ coming from ?
Decades ago it was said that the AQHA was asking judges not to place the peanut rollers. Things were going to change. Do you see any change ? If a judge is presented with a whole class full of truffle hunters what is he supposed to do ? Not place any horse ? Then wait for the phone to ring ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmExC0boot4&feature=relmfu
Adding the mare I was speaking of - I thought she was linked. Isn’t she something!!!
Jurley, Walking and AAp…have any of you volunteered at TWH shows? Do any of you DONATE TROPHIES OR MONEY to plantation classes?
Do any of you CURRENTLY BREED the type of horse you demand everyone else produce?
It has to start somewhere and since you are most vocal and are involved in the TWH I will look forward to your observations and success in entering or donating to plantation type classes
Quite the tangent and tantrum Hairfax. :eek:
BTW, “plantation” is a heavily shod class - here’s the shoe:
http://www.hphoofcare.com/kegshoe.jpg
Bit much, no?
Every year this:
WGC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C6_FQhcoLQ
Looks more and more like this:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/german_shepherd_dog/index.cfm
[QUOTE=Fairfax;6549681]
Jurley, Walking and AAp…have any of you volunteered at TWH shows? Do any of you DONATE TROPHIES OR MONEY to plantation classes?
Do any of you CURRENTLY BREED the type of horse you demand everyone else produce?
It has to start somewhere and since you are most vocal and are involved in the TWH I will look forward to your observations and success in entering or donating to plantation type classes[/QUOTE]
I assume you’re talking to me Fairfax? I will never donate money or anything to the hideous plantation classes. I’ve never been into breeding. Please show me one post where I’ve even mentioned breeding. My TWH came out of one of those hellish barns in Shelbyville, he was an emotional wreck. I promised him he’d never be shown again. I’ve kept that promise.
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