Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;6563619]
from the bill
http://whitfield.house.gov/sites/whitfield.house.gov/files/WHITFI_046_xml%20HPA%20Bill.pdf

‘‘(12) The use of an action device on any limb
6 of a Tennessee Walking, a Racking, or a Spotted
7 Saddle horse at a horse show, horse exhibition, or
8 horse sale or auction.
9 ‘‘(13) The use of a weighted shoe, pad, wedge,
10 hoof band, or other device or material
at a horse
11 show, horse exhibition, or horse sale or auction
12 that—
13 ‘‘(A) is placed on, inserted in, or attached
14 to any limb
of a Tennessee Walking, a Racking,
15 or a Spotted Saddle horse;
16 ‘‘(B) is constructed to artificially alter the
17 gait
of such a horse; and
18 ‘‘© is not strictly protective or therapeutic in nature.’’;

So who decides on protective and therapeutic?
Vet?, Farrier? Some STUDY somewhere?

Last I looked, all applied shoes, etc are artificial and even the slightest weight or contact can alter gait -that is why a farrier has to learn to shoe a horse!

-these are the only exceptions outside the ban.[/QUOTE]

When you ask who decides, the answer is the same people that do so now. Either USDA officials OR the DQP (designated qualified person) that each gaited show currently employs (so that they are not as open to inspections for soring by the USDA).

APHIS sets out specific parameters of what constitutes soring. And from reading this, I would conjecture they will also define what constitutes acceptable shoe and padding and protective gear. And my continued assumption would be that these limits will follow some USEF, AAEP or AVMA guidelines of acceptability for good horse husbandry and use.

That seems to be the direction of this from my reading of publications.

Reality Check:
[INDENT]
It has been cautioned on this thread that the Horse Protection Act (HPA) affects all horses. Yet, we hear no complaints of HPA intrusions, DQP inspection costs and training burdens from associations outside of the traditional southland gaited associations.[/INDENT]

Think about it. The HPA law has been in effect for many years and it affects ALL horses and associations. Yet, the likes of Hunter, Jumper, Western Pleasure, Eventing, ASB, Morgan, Draft, Paso etc etc have not had one complaint of legislative intrusion into their respective arenas.

The answer is obvious.

These groups do not promote a sored horse or seek a movement that is only achieived through stacking, weighting or soring or all of the above. These other associations promote high steps in gaits that can otherwise naturally achieve a high step (the rack and the trot - gallop too but that is a different story).

The only limitations and intrusions the non southland gaited associations have to deal with are those that are self imposed on their members. No law was made or necessary to legally stop abuse.

Now that this new initiative is rolling out to clean house in the southern gaitor land, some people are unnecessarily raising their eyebrows over the potential of legislative limits on their action devices. Unnecessary as the bill’s restriction of the action device limit is to those breeds known to sore, And unnecessary as there is HSUS’s performance record of only applying oversight to those breeds known to sore. This record of performance and the breed limitation in the proposed bill should give the non-soring associations, trainors and owners ample reason to support this bill.

As an after thought, I do want to add there is a southland gaitor association - Single Footers (SHOBA) - that does not seem to be affected by these restrictions and inspections at all. My guess is because they seek the naturally high stepping and heart pounding speed rack.

Also, the other aforementioned associations do get the high step from those gaits that have that natural potential (rack/trot) to step high. And the other assocations have demonstrated though they allow enhancements, their use has never been demonstrated to cause soring, nor is their high step a result of soring.

Southland gaitors got in this mess as they tried to impose an extreme high front end on a walking type gait which does not in any way naturally high step. That Merry Wilson mare I adored is about as high as a walking gait can reasonably get - and I am sure that foot had a little enhancement of weight on the shoe. Sure she could do more if the rider pushed her into a rack - but then she would be racking not walking - and that is a whole nother gait. Thing is - above all else - she had the God given bones to move like that: up headed, sloping shoulder, pastern etc etc. Such a fantastic horse.

[QUOTE=sunridge1;6563210]
Fairfax: the queen of cherry picking,and spinning. IOW fallacy arguments. :lol:

Isn’t there a profession like that? Oh yeah politics.:yes:[/QUOTE]

If you want the correct title…it is Baron

If you want to “spin” I will be happy to review your infamous post of “I am unable to feed my horses this fall” so you could be part of the ingroup who were complaining about the high cost of hay.

Now, back to the regular program…darn…nothing but reruns on this thread

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6564200]
If you want the correct title…it is Baron

If you want to “spin” I will be happy to review your infamous post of “I am unable to feed my horses this fall” so you could be part of the ingroup who were complaining about the high cost of hay.

Now, back to the regular program…darn…nothing but reruns on this thread[/QUOTE]

And avoidance of the topic.:wink:

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6564165]
Reality Check:
[INDENT]
It has been cautioned on this thread that the Horse Protection Act (HPA) affects all horses. Yet, we hear no complaints of HPA intrusions, DQP inspection costs and training burdens from associations outside of the traditional southland gaited associations.[/INDENT]

Think about it. The HPA law has been in effect for many years and it affects ALL horses and associations. Yet, the likes of Hunter, Jumper, Western Pleasure, Eventing, ASB, Morgan, Draft, Paso etc etc have not had one complaint of legislative intrusion into their respective arenas.

The answer is obvious.

These groups do not promote a sored horse or seek a movement that is only achieived through stacking, weighting or soring or all of the above. These other associations promote high steps in gaits that can otherwise naturally achieve a high step (the rack and the trot - gallop too but that is a different story).

The only limitations and intrusions the non southland gaited associations have to deal with are those that are self imposed on their members. No law was made or necessary to legally stop abuse.

Now that this new initiative is rolling out to clean house in the southern gaitor land, some people are unnecessarily raising their eyebrows over the potential of legislative limits on their action devices. Unnecessary as the bill’s restriction of the action device limit is to those breeds known to sore, And unnecessary as there is HSUS’s performance record of only applying oversight to those breeds known to sore. This record of performance and the breed limitation in the proposed bill should give the non-soring associations, trainors and owners ample reason to support this bill.

As an after thought, I do want to add there is a southland gaitor association - Single Footers (SHOBA) - that does not seem to be affected by these restrictions and inspections at all. My guess is because they seek the naturally high stepping and heart pounding speed rack.

Also, the other aforementioned associations do get the high step from those gaits that have that natural potential (rack/trot) to step high. And the other assocations have demonstrated though they allow enhancements, their use has never been demonstrated to cause soring, nor is their high step a result of soring.

Southland gaitors got in this mess as they tried to impose an extreme high front end on a walking type gait which does not in any way naturally high step. That Merry Wilson mare I adored is about as high as a walking gait can reasonably get - and I am sure that foot had a little enhancement of weight on the shoe. Sure she could do more if the rider pushed her into a rack - but then she would be racking not walking - and that is a whole nother gait. Thing is - above all else - she had the God given bones to move like that: up headed, sloping shoulder, pastern etc etc. Such a fantastic horse.[/QUOTE]

For posteriers and a bump for discussion.

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6564200]
Now, back to the regular program…darn…nothing but reruns on this thread[/QUOTE]

Yes lots of reruns on a topic that in the past has been swept under the rug. Unfortunately part of the reruns are your “contributions” to the topic.

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6564200]
If you want the correct title…it is Baron

If you want to “spin” I will be happy to review your infamous post of “I am unable to feed my horses this fall” so you could be part of the ingroup who were complaining about the high cost of hay.

Now, back to the regular program…darn…nothing but reruns on this thread[/QUOTE]

Yes thank goodness my DH is cancer free and I am now gainfully employed.

Glad things are better for you and yours sunridge1.

As we wait today for McConnel’ss federal court sentencing here is today’s article from the Times Free Press

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/sep/18/chattanooga-drama-crowd-expected-at-horse-trainer/

[QUOTE=sunridge1;6564527]
Yes thank goodness my DH is cancer free and I am now gainfully employed.[/QUOTE]

Sorry to go off topic however I must challenge this victimhood statement. The issue of cancer (of which I am a survivor) was NEVER mentioned. As a matter of record, I contacted you privately and asked if I could help "due to your proclaimed financial difficulties dealing with the high cost of hay)

Your reply suggested NOTHING of a cancer issue. Instead you did state you were “caught up in the thread” and you did NOT have any financial issues.

You have done this on so many occasions

This did not occur on this forum. That distinction requires clarrification

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6564600]
As we wait today for McConnel’ss federal court sentencing here is today’s article from the Times Free Press

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/sep/18/chattanooga-drama-crowd-expected-at-horse-trainer/[/QUOTE]

WOW WITW!!! Sen. Joe Tydings!
[INDENT]
Drama, crowd expected at horse trainer sentencing
share email print font size by Pam Sohn
view bio »

A federal judge today will decide whether to accept a horse trainer’s guilty plea in a case that sparked a firestorm of public outcry over abuse in the Tennessee walking horse industry.

The Chattanooga courtroom where Jackie McConnell is expected to be sentenced to probation could be lively. Representatives from the Humane Society will be here, as will be U.S. Sen. Joe Tydings, a Democrat from Maryland and the author of the original Horse Protection Act in 1970. Judging from court documents, a number of McConnell’s friends and family may be present, too.

What’s not likely is that McConnell’s fellow trainers will be supporting him.

Earlier this month, when McCon-nell’s sentencing was delayed a week, Doyle Meadows, the retiring CEO of the Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration, said the organization already had taken the strongest action it could: handing McConnell a lifetime ban from the Celebration grounds and events, as well as stripping him of his previous status in the Celebration’s hall of fame.

“As far as we are concerned, the only place Jackie McConnell belongs is in a jail cell, and it is unfortunate that he is not being prosecuted under the new [Tennessee] horse cruelty law,” Doyle said in a prepared statement.

But jail is not on the table.

Under federal court sentencing guidelines, McCon-nell is not eligible for jail time because he has no criminal history. His previous soring violations were handled as civil administrative cases, not crimes.

Horse soring – abusing a horse with acids, chains and foreign objects in their shoes or pads to enhance their high-stepping gait – is not a crime federally. But transporting a sored horse for a show or sale is a federal misdemeanor.

In May, McConnell pleaded guilty to conspiring to violate the Horse Protection Act by substituting other names in place of his as the trainer of sored horses while he served a five-year license suspension for previous soring. Falsifying a show form by saying someone else is the trainer constitutes conspiracy, a felony.

The maximum punishment is five years’ imprisonment, three years supervised release and a $250,000 fine. But McConnell, as a first-time felony offender, is not eligible for that sentence.

Prosecutors are asking for a full five-year probation period and the maximum $250,000 fine, as well as McConnell’s complete abstention from the horse business in any manner other than as a spectator.

Stoking fervor
Shortly after McConnell pleaded guilty, the Humane Society of the United States released on prime-time television a portion of a hidden-camera video it collected and turned over about a year ago to the U.S. Department of Agriculture and to local U.S. attorneys Bill Killian and Steve Neff.

The video of abuse ignited a firestorm of public anger just as the annual Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration was about to begin in mid August.

The ensuing months have been a continual tit-for-tat flurry of news conferences and positioning between the walking horse industry and the Humane Society. Today’s court case has not been immune as attorneys debated the length of McConnell’s probation and the size of his fine.

Neff and Killian received phone calls from angry citizens demanding to know why they are recommending probation for McConnell. The clamor led prosecutors to file a 16-page explanation that points out the limitations of their case.

"While the government is cognizant of and shares the sentiments of the public outcry and desire to see significant jail time imposed on violators … the sad reality is that the law passed by Congress does not possess significant teeth," Neff wrote.

A week later, defense attorneys filed a counter memorandum, noting that letters to the court from McConnell’s friends and family offer a different view of the former national trainer of the year.

Defense attorneys Hugh J. Moore Jr. and Tom Greenholtz said the government simply wants “to redeem itself” from criticism. And they said McConnell has suffered enough.

“The fact that Mr. McCon-nell’s case has been the subject of extensive public criticism of the government does not justify the excessive fines,” defense attorneys wrote.

Moore and Greenholtz argue that U.S. Department of Agriculture – which oversees the enforcement of the Horse Protection Act – has fined McConnell $150,000, and that, coupled with his federal arrest, seizure of property, indictment and conviction as a felon, is plenty of punishment.

They noted there also has been “the constant drum-beat of negative local, regional and national publicity, stories played and re-played on every national news channel and ABC’s ‘Nightline,’ complete loss of reputation, abandonment by former ‘friends’ and the ‘industry’ and being the daily subject of utter contempt and hatred expressed from around the world.”

“No amount of fine will ever work any additional deterrence,” Greenholtz and Moore wrote.

Late Friday, prosecutors filed a rebuttal, saying McConnell cannot claim to fully accept responsibility while simultaneously objecting to the legal consequences of breaking the law.

“[McConnell] is not the victim in this case; the horses he harmed and anyone who may have been defrauded due to the defendant’s cheating and crimes are the victims,” Neff and Killian wrote.

Contact staff writer Pam Sohn at psohn@timesfree press.com or 423-757-6346.[/INDENT]

Just wanted to say to Mr Neff - teeth are on the way!

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6564629]
Sorry to go off topic however I must challenge this victimhood statement. The issue of cancer (of which I am a survivor) was NEVER mentioned. As a matter of record, I contacted you privately and asked if I could help "due to your proclaimed financial difficulties dealing with the high cost of hay)

Your reply suggested NOTHING of a cancer issue. Instead you did state you were “caught up in the thread” and you did NOT have any financial issues.

You have done this on so many occasions[/QUOTE]

on gods green earth it was none of your business. Jeez

Yay for the penalty. On McConnell.

75k 3 yrs for McConnell really?

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/9/18/234572/McConnell-Gets-75000-Fine-3-Years.aspx

It will be interesting to see whether the essay he has to write will name names or if he has already done that. Also whether his assets have been transferred to his wife/son.

Next step, Fayette County Courthouse, Somerville, TN.

I know he won’t be able to do anything in his home territory without plenty of eyes on him.

That is good to hear Baby Green.

Has he in any way offered any remorse or apologies? Have any of his clients ever spoken publicly about what was done to their horses?

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6564165]
Reality Check:
[INDENT]
It has been cautioned on this thread that the Horse Protection Act (HPA) affects all horses. Yet, we hear no complaints of HPA intrusions, DQP inspection costs and training burdens from associations outside of the traditional southland gaited associations.[/INDENT]

Think about it. The HPA law has been in effect for many years and it affects ALL horses and associations. Yet, the likes of Hunter, Jumper, Western Pleasure, Eventing, ASB, Morgan, Draft, Paso etc etc have not had one complaint of legislative intrusion into their respective arenas.

The answer is obvious.

These groups do not promote a sored horse or seek a movement that is only achieived through stacking, weighting or soring or all of the above. These other associations promote high steps in gaits that can otherwise naturally achieve a high step (the rack and the trot - gallop too but that is a different story).

The only limitations and intrusions the non southland gaited associations have to deal with are those that are self imposed on their members. No law was made or necessary to legally stop abuse.

Now that this new initiative is rolling out to clean house in the southern gaitor land, some people are unnecessarily raising their eyebrows over the potential of legislative limits on their action devices. Unnecessary as the bill’s restriction of the action device limit is to those breeds known to sore, And unnecessary as there is HSUS’s performance record of only applying oversight to those breeds known to sore. This record of performance and the breed limitation in the proposed bill should give the non-soring associations, trainors and owners ample reason to support this bill.

As an after thought, I do want to add there is a southland gaitor association - Single Footers (SHOBA) - that does not seem to be affected by these restrictions and inspections at all. My guess is because they seek the naturally high stepping and heart pounding speed rack.

Also, the other aforementioned associations do get the high step from those gaits that have that natural potential (rack/trot) to step high. And the other assocations have demonstrated though they allow enhancements, their use has never been demonstrated to cause soring, nor is their high step a result of soring.

Southland gaitors got in this mess as they tried to impose an extreme high front end on a walking type gait which does not in any way naturally high step. That Merry Wilson mare I adored is about as high as a walking gait can reasonably get - and I am sure that foot had a little enhancement of weight on the shoe. Sure she could do more if the rider pushed her into a rack - but then she would be racking not walking - and that is a whole nother gait. Thing is - above all else - she had the God given bones to move like that: up headed, sloping shoulder, pastern etc etc. Such a fantastic horse.[/QUOTE]

There has been much rumor among the DQP’s and Government inspectors that they are keeping their “eyes” on a few other breeds that “fail” the Horse Protection Act.

And those breeds would be?