Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

[cordial]

[QUOTE=katarine;6704499]
OH, Gnalli, I was so with you until the saddle BS.

If they can show them in a cutback, or a western saddle- and it’s a walking horse, whyowhycan’t they show him in a dressage saddle? It’s just a saddle.

I show my TWH in gaited dressage and I’ve had countless people (trotting horse people) approach me to compliment his turnout and demeanor, AND to say some variant of ‘I didn’t know they could gait w/o all of that crap on their feet.’ Different horses do different jobs representing the breed. I just wish I felt that CW was a representation of TWHs, not his owner’s ego.

Agree that CW does not epitomize the ideal smooth moving big sweepy moving TWH. He’s a pretty color and very kind, obviously, but no, he’s not anywhere close to a top quality flat shod horse. It’s too bad; The breed could use a legitimate ambassador without all the posturing and the baggage. It is a detriment to the breed that it’s loudest ‘advocate’ is … a loudmouth LOL[/QUOTE]

Great Post! He is a beautiful color, but is not a good ambassador of the flat-shod breed. Yes, I have seen him in person.

[cordial]

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6704848]
Word is that the Missouri State Fair is considering elimination of TWH Performance classes from its annual show because USEF is threatening to pull its rating from the show if big lick horses are allowed.[/QUOTE]

Oh boy, I bet that made your day!!!

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=Gnalli;6705419]
Normally I would agree, but in that type of class, the cutback is the “norm”. You would not have gone in that class with a western saddle, or a western pleasure class with a hunt seat is all I meant, nothing against the saddle itself.

Personally, I want a dressage saddle for me to piddle around in because they look so comfy.[/QUOTE]

You would be disappointed.

“Dressage saddles” generally put the rider into a very closely controlled position. Just what that position will be will depend upon make, model, and year produced. Earlier saddles, like the Stubben Tristan, were more “flexible” but if you were try a Stubben Maestro you would find that you’ll be almost put in a “molded seat” that will allow very little rider moment. For Dressage (the competition) this is a good thing; for anything else it gets an SUX rating.

When a person enters a competition they have to abide by the rules of that competition, whether they like them or not. To act otherwise to be arrogant and self-serving.

The wise rider in any discipline picks the saddle that best meets the needs of them and their horse AND complies with the rules of the discipline chosen.

G.

[WalkInTheWoods]

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6704848]
Word is that the Missouri State Fair is considering elimination of TWH Performance classes from its annual show because USEF is threatening to pull its rating from the show if big lick horses are allowed.[/QUOTE]

@cordial;6705442

Oh boy, I bet that made your day!!!

The news that USEF may pull their rating for sure made my day as have other things that have happened in the last few days.

thehorse.com has a wide readership and i appreciated this article:
http://cs.thehorse.com/blogs/aaep-convention/archive/2012/12/03/the-dark-side-soring.aspx

And asking the Tennessee District Attorneys General to investigate the positive swabs from Celebration also made my day.

http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2012/12/tenn-walking-horse-investigation-request-120612.html

All in all, its been a good week.:encouragement: :encouragement: :encouragement:

[aarpaso]

the news from USEF has really spoke volumes as to how the HORSE WORLD feels toward the BL.and this will make waves big waves thru out the open show industry.end the BL class at your shows help stop the abuse of the TWH.

thank you USEF

[aarpaso]

the State of Tennessee has been put under the microscope,its time to do the right thing follow the LAW.federal and your state law.

hold the abusers of the HORSE that bares your NAME,to the fire STOP the ABUSE of the WALKING HORSE.

[The_Preacher]

This is one of the reasons to have hope !!~ ~~~ with things this tight…if you have wanted to scream at the top of your voice to someone;

“STOP IT!!!”

THIS will energize you ~~~~ DO IT PEOPLE! Stop talkin bout it and do it!!! contact your lawmakers!

SHARE THIS!!!

http://http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/12/6/240010/Tennessee-District-Attorneys-General.aspx

[WalkInTheWoods]

Thanks, Preacher. I fixed the link.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/12/6/240010/Tennessee-District-Attorneys-General.aspx

[cordial]

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6705554]
The news that USEF may pull their rating for sure made my day as have other things that have happened in the last few days.

thehorse.com has a wide readership and i appreciated this article:
http://cs.thehorse.com/blogs/aaep-convention/archive/2012/12/03/the-dark-side-soring.aspx

And asking the Tennessee District Attorneys General to investigate the positive swabs from Celebration also made my day.

http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2012/12/tenn-walking-horse-investigation-request-120612.html

All in all, its been a good week.:encouragement: :encouragement: :encouragement:[/QUOTE]

I am glad that had a good week. If and when the pads and chains are outlawed, we will take out padded horses down to flat-shod and go on with life…not a problem. All of you posters that don’t like the pads and chains also think that they are sored…maybe in some cases, but many people are against them. It is very discouraging to come on here, knowing your horse is sound, and be called the nasty names. I don’t know what is going to happen to the pads and chains, but I really don’t care one way or the other. If the pads and chains go bye, bye, please put your energy to getting abuse wiped out in other breeds.You seem to thrive on doing good for the care of horses…there is plenty of work to do in other breeds!

[frugalannie]

Cordial, your posts have been very reasonable and your passion for your horses shows. I congratulate you on having a sound show horse for so many years: rare no matter what the discipline!

And I really appreciate your most recent post with your perspective that if pads and chains go, you will continue to show flat-shod. You are right: the world will not end if chains and pads are eliminated and showing will continue (although it seems that some people may not feel this way).

I would hope that you and others like you would join in to ban pads and chains (and I don’t mean small therapeutic pads of a a few millimeters, I mean what this thread calls stacks). Why would you even consider doing this? Because unfortunately the soring, stacked pads and chains seem to be utilized in concert by others whose horses do not share the same soundness yours do. They are used as mechanical means to achieve what to horsemen of any other discipline is an extremely unnatural and physically stressful gait. Unfortunately, in order to be successful in the show ring, one must employ such mechanical means because that unnatural gait is rewarded.

IF the chains and stacked pads were eliminated, and examinations were still conducted for soring, the playing field would become much more level. Wonderfully sound and talented horses such as yours could display their beautiful natural gaits and excel against their peers. The horse with the most outstanding natural gait would rise to the top: such a horse would be outstanding because of his athletic ability, not because of mechanical manipulation. If only…

[Fairfax]

Many ofd the posters don’t show, don’t own and only need a cause. The rules for Saddlebreds and Arabs are in effect and they don’t show with chains so it isn’t an issue. They are allowed pads and if this little group thinks they are going to have success going after Morgans, Asb’s, Arabs etc they will also have to take on the WB groups who also use pads.

Many posters have stated there are not a lot of BL horses so it should not have any impact on the show ring. If there are not the numbers of TWH’s in any division in the show ring, the breed will just be dropped. No different than what happened to the Shetland Pony.

If the current registration body collapses is there a group that is willing to step up with some big bucks to create a new registration body? Or, are the numbers for registered TWH’s so low it can be done by just about anyone?

With the demise of the BL and what I have read here, that certain bloodlines are specifically bred for BL and its action abilities…will these just be discontinued and is that going to impact the genetic availability of the breed?

Is there a publication for the flat shod? The last one went under but maybe there will be more support for a new one.

I am happy to see a direct assault against those who sore however I am concerned regarding the “newly appointed” credibility to the HSUS group and their agenda.

Does anyone know, now that Roy is the man of their hour, if HSUS has actually put up ANY money …??? If so…where? I can not find any court records showing they have provided any legal or support (financial) for the fight against soring. Nothing in the state legislation bodies either…of course there are papers provided by others…just none paid for by Danes and his HSUS group.

I watched the parade spectators drop to zero for the Shetland breed after those fighting against high action won…I hope better awaits the TWH breed.

It takes a lot of money to promote…and it will need to have individuals such as the Preacher dig deep into their pockets

[Appsolute]

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6705933]
they will also have to take on the WB groups who also use pads. [/QUOTE]

Please explain?

[Appsolute]

^^^ I see I got the thumbs down. So, we have huge stacks of pads - 4 inches or so taller (big lick), and then you have regular shoeing practices (I guess that is the “WB groups”) that at times, use very thin (think quarter of an inch) rubber or leather pads to protect the sole from bruising.

One is to protect the hoof from discomfort, and the other is use to radically change the angles of the hoof, and the gait of the animal.

Are you saying that if one goes out (stacks for TWH) then the same “anti” groups should go after thin pads used for therapeutic purposes?

FYI - not only “warmblood” people use those. I have known trail horses that get pads to deal with particularly rocky areas. My TB needed pads if he was going to be turned out much of the time because he bruised his thin soles.

But I guess if stacks and chains aren’t allowed – shoeing a horse in a way that benefits its comfort should be “gone after”?

[Fairfax]

The statement was made to remove all pads with MAYBE the exception for theraputic…however it was also stated that maybe if they need the pads they shouldn’t be shown

[cordial]

[QUOTE=frugalannie;6705906]
Cordial, your posts have been very reasonable and your passion for your horses shows. I congratulate you on having a sound show horse for so many years: rare no matter what the discipline!

And I really appreciate your most recent post with your perspective that if pads and chains go, you will continue to show flat-shod. You are right: the world will not end if chains and pads are eliminated and showing will continue (although it seems that some people may not feel this way).

I would hope that you and others like you would join in to ban pads and chains (and I don’t mean small therapeutic pads of a a few millimeters, I mean what this thread calls stacks). Why would you even consider doing this? Because unfortunately the soring, stacked pads and chains seem to be utilized in concert by others whose horses do not share the same soundness yours do. They are used as mechanical means to achieve what to horsemen of any other discipline is an extremely unnatural and physically stressful gait. Unfortunately, in order to be successful in the show ring, one must employ such mechanical means because that unnatural gait is rewarded.

IF the chains and stacked pads were eliminated, and examinations were still conducted for soring, the playing field would become much more level. Wonderfully sound and talented horses such as yours could display their beautiful natural gaits and excel against their peers. The horse with the most outstanding natural gait would rise to the top: such a horse would be outstanding because of his athletic ability, not because of mechanical manipulation. If only…[/QUOTE]

We have only one padded horse that we have had for many years, and the rest are flat-shod, that we also have had for many years. I do love a good sound padded horse…they are amazing to ride, but I am not a big padded horse person. I personally like them, but I have always ridden flat-shod in the show ring.
The problem is that there is abuse in the flat-shod division as well…pressure shoeing is a big problem, road floundering, quicking the hoof, and many more things. So getting rid of the chains and pads is just one problem, but NOT the only one… believe me. Also soring is done in the flat-shod division as well, so there are many things that trainers and owners do. But the padded horses take all of the abuse from the people that hate the padds and chains! Alot of time it is unwarranted.

[The_Preacher]

SIGH Cordial & Katerine I tire of the chasing after statements and comments that can be proven the fact that you are mean-spirited, nasty and unhappy people, now what was it you said about him not being everything you thought he should be?

Katerine;

[B]"I just wish I felt that CW was a representation of TWHs, not his owner’s ego.

Agree that CW does not epitomize the ideal smooth moving big sweepy moving TWH. He’s a pretty color and very kind, obviously, but no, he’s not anywhere close to a top quality flat shod horse. It’s too bad; The breed could use a legitimate ambassador without all the posturing and the baggage. It is a detriment to the breed that it’s loudest ‘advocate’ is … a loudmouth LOL"[/B]

CORDIAL : “Great Post! He is a beautiful color, but is not a good ambassador of the flat-shod breed. Yes, I have seen him in person.”

And by the way you name dropping and saying you met him as if you know something about him is telling…okay I want everyone who would like to see these two eat crow…

Show me ladies the horse yu think is a better representative of the light division.

Please look at the first musical freestyle he ever did in 2006 at the Kentucky Horse Park…and then tell me he had no animated, correct flat walk and running walk gait, and remember, this was all natural, keg shod ,then that same year we went to Florida

http://www.walkinonranch.com/musicalfreestyle%20.html

Have a blessed night ladies tsk, tsk, tsk,

[Shansurri]

[QUOTE=The Preacher;6706238]
SIGH Cordial & Katerine I tire of the chasing after statements and comments that can be proven the fact that you are mean-spirited, nasty and unhappy people, now what was it you said about him not being everything you thought he should be?

Katerine;

[B]"I just wish I felt that CW was a representation of TWHs, not his owner’s ego.

Agree that CW does not epitomize the ideal smooth moving big sweepy moving TWH. He’s a pretty color and very kind, obviously, but no, he’s not anywhere close to a top quality flat shod horse. It’s too bad; The breed could use a legitimate ambassador without all the posturing and the baggage. It is a detriment to the breed that it’s loudest ‘advocate’ is … a loudmouth LOL"[/B]

CORDIAL : “Great Post! He is a beautiful color, but is not a good ambassador of the flat-shod breed. Yes, I have seen him in person.”

And by the way you name dropping and saying you met him as if you know something about him is telling…okay I want everyone who would like to see these two eat crow…

Show me ladies the horse yu think is a better representative of the light division.

Please look at the first musical freestyle he ever did in 2006 at the Kentucky Horse Park…and then tell me he had no animated, correct flat walk and running walk gait, and remember, this was all natural, keg shod ,then that same year we went to Florida

[URL"http://www.walkinonranch.com/musicalfreestyle.html"

Have a blessed night ladies tsk, tsk, tsk,[/QUOTE]

Allen All Around
Cash’s Prime Time
The Midnight Ride
Banner’s Dixie Belle

And a few dozen others.
Champagne Watchout isn’t a bad horse. He still takes my breath away on a western riding pattern. But he isn’t a top rail horse. It’s like taking Totilas into a reining class. What would be the point? It isn’t his strength. Rail classes are not Watchout’s strength, either.

There are plenty of flatshod horses out there who better represent top movement in the Walking Horse world. The list above includes many horses that have performed at WEG and other venues designed to promote sound, healthy, happy walking horses.

Demonstrating the value of sound healthy gaited horses isn’t a competition-- it’s something we do for the horse.

Here is a taste of what sound horse showing looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgZOtmu3mUc

[cordial]

[QUOTE=The Preacher;6706238]
SIGH Cordial & Katerine I tire of the chasing after statements and comments that can be proven the fact that you are mean-spirited, nasty and unhappy people, now what was it you said about him not being everything you thought he should be?

Katerine;

[B]"I just wish I felt that CW was a representation of TWHs, not his owner’s ego.

Agree that CW does not epitomize the ideal smooth moving big sweepy moving TWH. He’s a pretty color and very kind, obviously, but no, he’s not anywhere close to a top quality flat shod horse. It’s too bad; The breed could use a legitimate ambassador without all the posturing and the baggage. It is a detriment to the breed that it’s loudest ‘advocate’ is … a loudmouth LOL"[/B]

CORDIAL : “Great Post! He is a beautiful color, but is not a good ambassador of the flat-shod breed. Yes, I have seen him in person.”

And by the way you name dropping and saying you met him as if you know something about him is telling…okay I want everyone who would like to see these two eat crow…

Show me ladies the horse yu think is a better representative of the light division.

Please look at the first musical freestyle he ever did in 2006 at the Kentucky Horse Park…and then tell me he had no animated, correct flat walk and running walk gait, and remember, this was all natural, keg shod ,then that same year we went to Florida

[URL"http://www.walkinonranch.com/musicalfreestyle.html"

Have a blessed night ladies tsk, tsk, tsk,[/QUOTE]

Tsk tsk, to you Mr. Preache, CW doesn’t have enough back-end, front-end or head-shake to be called the Model for a flat-shod horse. He would have Trouble getting a ribbon in the Trail Pleasure Division. He is a lovely color, I will give him that. Not dropping names, I saw him at the Celebration in the Stake class!

[cordial]

[QUOTE=Shansurri;6706264]
Allen All Around
Cash’s Prime Time
The Midnight Ride
Banner’s Dixie Belle

And a few dozen others.
Champagne Watchout isn’t a bad horse. He still takes my breath away on a western riding pattern. But he isn’t a top rail horse. It’s like taking Totilas into a reining class. What would be the point? It isn’t his strength. Rail classes are not Watchout’s strength, either.

There are plenty of flatshod horses out there who better represent top movement in the Walking Horse world. The list above includes many horses that have performed at WEG and other venues designed to promote sound, healthy, happy walking horses.

Demonstrating the value of sound healthy gaited horses isn’t a competition-- it’s something we do for the horse.

Here is a taste of what sound horse showing looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgZOtmu3mUc[/QUOTE]

Enjoyed your tape…some nice moving and shaking horses!

[katarine]

And I saw him totally lose his *hit and refuse the water obstacle at the AHC Horse Fair, the first year they did the Trail Horse competition. He was overfaced,unsure, and upset. The same year Jennie gigged the everlivin’ *hit out of a black mare afraid of an obstacle near the end.

Must we, Preacher? Must we?