Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

[QUOTE=Shansurri;6767231]
Working a horse and stressing it physically can indeed have longterm bad effects on a horse, even IF it is conditioned properly (the BL horses are poorly conditioned). Jumpers don’t jump their horses daily-- dressage horses don’t perform advanced maneuvers daily. Barrel horses don’t turn and burn on a daily basis.

Big Lick? They are on those pads 24/7, and every single time they are worked they must lug and drag those pads around (along with bicycle chain bits). Oh, and the chains, which everyone insists never get above 6 oz., even though the Auburn study conclusively proved that the horse’s motion with anything under 7 oz. chains did not discernibly change at ALL. In small words, what I am saying is that 6 oz. or less caused no damage, but ALSO no change in the horse’s gait. Anything over 6 oz. caused damage within a very short amount of time (2 fifteen minute sessions, IIRC). And also not much change in the horse’s gait. Hmmm… chains by themselves don’t cause a gait change? Why DO they use them then? :smiley:

If the chains caused no damage, if the pads and weird angles caused no damage, the forced exertion beyond what a horse normally would do would STILL result in wear and tear on joints and posture. Wear and tear that occurs every single time the horse moves, because it has no way to escape the trappings that force it into that movement.[/QUOTE]

Interestingly enough, if you go to TWH Sale, you can pick out the broken, off pads, Big Lickers in a heartbeat by the crampy, forced way of going. Extremely sad… You just want to shake some sense in these people. Such a wonderful, intelligent, versatile breed and those padded folks just do NOT GET simple, good horse stewardship, or do they care to get it, which is even sadder.

I believe that when showing Morgans the pads are 1.5 inches or less, and there are rules regarding length of foot. Why cant this be done with TWH?
(And feel free to correct if I’m wrong, I do not know much about Morgans.)

What I want to know is what kind of experience training or riding does BD have? I know BD and can tell you, outside of riding his dad and brother’s coat tails, he has none. He’s trail ridden and that’s the ONLY photo you will ever find of BD on a horse outside of when he was a small child. He knows what he reads and what he hears. If you look at his forum, he is CONSTANTLY changing his views and opinions as to what is “popular thinking” at that point in time. He has never trained a horse, shown a horse. All he knows how to do is take a pretty picture. And even that gets edited. I’ve yet to see him maintain the same opinion for more than a week. When this was all started he was all gung ho about keeping the pads and chains. Especially when HR 6388 came out. Now he is for a reduction in pads and no chains. The BOY can’t make up his mind to save his life. Even his “followers” are starting to see his ways.

Pads are going out of style and quick. There are quite a few bad trainers in the area who sore and will continue to sore horses. I’ve seen a Celebration judge sore one then whip it out of cross ties because it wouldn’t walk. I reported it, nothing was done, and I’ve not been back to that barn since. The good ol’ boy system will come to find the error of their ways. Sure pads and chains don’t “harm” a horse, but the soring sure as heck does. Soring is what got the industry in the predicament it’s currently in, but no one will stop. The almighty dollar is more important than the horses’ welfare and that is pathetic and sad.

So, “the times, they are a’changin’”? I wonder.

This, too, bothers me:

“Sure pads and chains don’t “harm” a horse, but the soring sure as heck does. Soring is what got the industry in the predicament it’s currently in, but no one will stop.”

You are probably right that a pad or chain won’t, by itself, harm a horse. But the motion that the pad or chain induces WILL harm a horse in both the short and long term. This has been my observation based upon my experience with Walkers. I have no university level studies upon which to base my observations. I also have no economic interest in the process.

You are wrong that “Soring is what got the industry in the predicament it’s currently in…” Soring is a means to an end, not an end in itself. The first horses were sored up in the '50s to get the same Big Lick movement that was generating Celebration wins and big money. Soring occurs in the Light Shod and Plantation Shod classes for the same reasons it occurs in the Big Lick classes. As long as “maximized front end action” is the Holy Grail of the Walker trainer then you’ll have some form of soring going on.

And you’re right when you observe that no one will stop. Until, of course, they are stopped.

G.

I am not sure if this was posted yet:

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/12/2473994/state-senator-cited-for-violating.html

A high-profile walking horse proponent and padded horse rider, Kentucky state Sen. Robin Webb, D-Grayson, has suffered an equine black eye.

At the North Carolina Walking Horse Association championships in October, Webb was cited for violations involving two horses.

“Senator Robin Webb Busted” read the headline Dec. 4 on an anti-soring blog called “For the Tennessee Walking Horse.”

According to the USDA’s database of Horse Protection Act violations, Webb was ticketed for violating the “scar rule,” which establishes criteria to look for certain scars on the horse that are considered evidence that a horse has been “sored” and is ineligible to compete. Webb, as owner, was cited as a responsible party for two horses, Air Force One and Showstopper.

In an interview last week with the Herald-Leader, Webb denied soring either horse and said she did not see anything wrong with the animals at the time of the competition.

“I don’t sore my horses,” Webb said. “I love my horses, and my horses love me.”

She said Showstopper is a young horse whom she bought not long before the show; Air Force One is a prize-winning horse she has ridden in shows for years without incident, including a week after he failed the inspection.

“They were turned down on a scar rule and sent back to the barn,” she said. “The scar rule is very subjective.”

She said she did not appeal because she never received paperwork on either violation and, as far as she knows, she was not suspended.

Her trainer, Donald Stamper of Richmond, also was cited. Stamper confirmed Webb has horses in his barn but said he did not recall the incident.

“Where was this at, now?” Stamper asked in response to a reporter’s question. He hung up when asked for comment on his role.

Webb also has been a vocal opponent of federal legislation, filed by U.S. Rep. Ed Whitfield, R-Hopkinsville, to ban the use of pads and chains, called “action devices,” on horses.

“The Whitfield bill is extreme,” Webb said last week.

Whitfield said in a statement Friday that his bill “eliminates the self-policing system currently employed, allowing for a more uniform enforcement. … It is far from ‘extreme,’ which is why it carries the support of the American Veterinarian Medical Association, the American Association of Equine Practitioners and numerous others.”

The American Association of Equine Practitioners, headquartered at the Kentucky Horse Park, has said the ban is necessary to end soring.

Dr. René A. Carlson, president of the American Veterinarian Medical Association, said in June that her group is asking for a ban on “the use of action devices and performance packages in the training and showing of walking horses, because they appear to be facilitating soring.”

The U.S. Equestrian Federation, also headquartered at the Horse Park, also does not allow the use of action devices in the show ring.

At the annual meeting of the Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders and Exhibitors Association in December, Webb criticized the AAEP and other veterinary groups who have called for a ban, dubbing them “agenda-driven entities.”

Webb was honored by Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders and Exhibitors Association as its 2012 Performance Horse Ambassador for her participation in USDA discussions.

Last week, Webb told the Herald-Leader that the Tennessee walking horse has been “demonized,” particularly in light of a video, shot by an undercover investigator from the Humane Society of the United States, showing top walking horse trainer Jackie L. McConnell abusing horses in his Tennessee barn.

Webb said the footage, in which McConnell was shown striking tied-up horses in the face, was taken out of context.

“You don’t know what happened five minutes before or five minutes after. … These are animals that are very dangerous,” Webb said. “Every breed has training techniques that animal-rights groups find offensive.”

Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/12/2473994/state-senator-cited-for-violating.html#storylink=cpy

She sounds lovely.

(insert dripping sarcasm here)

There are so many things a large, man eating, dangerous, poisonous, venom spitting horse can do to a person while tied, down in a stall or being ridden by that merit the use of an electric shock to the mouth or flailing like a little girl with a bat trying to womp it in the face from a distance, or finally growing a partial set of mouse-gonads and hitting a horse while it;s down.

Heck, I worked with problem horses and never ever ONCE had to use a cattle prod or whack them in the face with anything or hit one while it was down.

But then I also never purposely made them painful and then tried to make them walk like the front end was a spastic epileptic spider monkey on crack wearing hooker-heels and the back end had a log jammed up it’s arse.

I’m weird like that. :o

The good news is once HR6388 passes, the folks that defend mechanical, forced and shut down “training techniques” that the stacked horsed epitomizes will look out from the firery hell they stoked and hopefully will either get out of animals all together, or they will be drawn into the reality of what real horsemanship can be.

They will be drawn by the folks who would not give them a pass on all their sorry excuses and rantings (see Misty Blue above - good analagy).

Or they will be in jail.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

An interesting read along with the comments below the article. Performance horse issues continue to hit the news since the airing of the Jackie McConnell video LAST MAY. Get a clue, Big Lickers, it is not going away this time. The dust didnt settle after Celebration like it has in the past. Thanks to everyone keeping this issue alive.
We all are making a difference !

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/12/2474011/horse-park-might-host-sale-that.html#storylink=cpy

It’s pretty obvious BD is no horseman.

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/12/2474011/horse-park-might-host-sale-that.html#storylink=cpy

Oh my - good link WITW. Though it was difficult to tolerate the comments by the stacked guys in the article (“good product” my butuckus), it is a well summed up read on the topic.

I groaned with the the stacker saying “they invite the USDA…” LOL. It is like prisoners saying they hired armed guards to watch how nice they play hoops in the yard.

Let them not forget, inspectors are there because they have this special law written for all the nasty abuses they try to legitimize.

And though Jason Crawthorn, is not at all associated with the the soring and stacked crew - (his horseman ship is there) - I take issue with this:

[INDENT]“I feel like if the International Walking Horse Association does the inspections, only sound horses will show,” said Jason Crawhorn, NWHA president.

[/INDENT]

There is this little thing this stacked crew does at home that they call training that we can never ever trust. We should never refer to their horses as sound.

HR6388.

[QUOTE=luvmytbs;6778242]
I am not sure if this was posted yet:

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/12/2473994/state-senator-cited-for-violating.html

A high-profile walking horse proponent and padded horse rider,

Last week, Webb told the Herald-Leader that the Tennessee walking horse has been “demonized,” particularly in light of a video, shot by an undercover investigator from the Humane Society of the United States, showing top walking horse trainer Jackie L. McConnell abusing horses in his Tennessee barn.

Webb said the footage, in which McConnell was shown striking tied-up horses in the face, was taken out of context.

“You don’t know what happened five minutes before or five minutes after. … These are animals that are very dangerous,” Webb said. “Every breed has training techniques that animal-rights groups find offensive.”

Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/12/2473994/state-senator-cited-for-violating.html#storylink=cpy[/QUOTE]

Groans again.

Her comment really reinforces the notion that these stackers draw a dumb clientele.

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6779574]
Groans again.

Her comment really reinforces the notion that these stackers draw a dumb clientele.[/QUOTE]

You should see how she is crying foul on her FB page. :lol:

I have to say I am really thrilled the focus is now also including KY.

Germantown also decided not to hold padded horse classes at their 2013 show. Flatshod only. :smiley:

Germantown also decided not to hold padded horse classes at their 2013 show. Flatshod only. :smiley:

[QUOTE=TnXC;6781246]
Germantown also decided not to hold padded horse classes at their 2013 show. Flatshod only. :D[/QUOTE]

SWEEETTTT…

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6779574]
Groans again.

Her comment really reinforces the notion that these stackers draw a dumb clientele.[/QUOTE]

I soo agree. It is just unfathomable that these folks, who claim to know horses, can look at these animals and think this is okay. It boggles…

It goes beyond Germantown ! USEF has taken a stand as follows:

USEF Rule Change Prohibits Performance Tennessee Walking Horses at Germantown
Monday, January 14, 2013

The 2013 Germantown Charity Horse Show will offer only pleasure Tennessee Walking Horse classes in June. Although the Germantown Charity board of directors was in favor of offering the performance classes, a recent United States Equestrian Federation (USEF) rule will prohibit the performance classes from being offered. The Germantown Charity Horse Show relies on the multi-breed aspect of the show and can’t afford to lose its USEF rating for those other divisions.

The USEF rule reads as follows:

GR839.4n
n. Soreing and/or the use of an action device on any limb of a Tennessee Walking Horse, Racking Horse, or Spotted Saddle Horse (each a breed not recognized by the Federation) in any class at a Federation Licensed Competition is prohibited. An action device is defined by the USDA as any boot, collar, chain, roller, or other device that encircles or is placed upon the lower extremity of the leg of a horse in such a manner that it can rotate around the leg or slide up and down the leg so as to cause friction or strike the hoof, coronet band, fetlock joint or pastern of the horse. (Protective bell boots or heel boots are specifically excluded from this definition). The use of a weighted shoe, pad, wedge, in conjunction with a hoof band or other device or material (commonly referred to as a performance package) placed on, inserted in, or attached to any limb of a Tennessee Walking Horse, a Racking Horse, or Spotted Saddle Horse (each a breed not recognized by the Federation) constructed to artificially alter the gait of such a horse, and which are not protective or therapeutic in nature, in classes at a Federation Licensed Competition is prohibited. EC 12/17/12 Effective Immediately.

The 2013 Germantown Charity Horse Show will be held June 4-8, 2013 at the show grounds in Germantown, Tenn.

They went beyond prohibiting stackers - they invoked HR6388.

Effective immediately … About time - this has been over 40 years in the making.

USEF!!! WOOT!!!

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6782833]
They went beyond prohibiting stackers - they invoked HR6388.

Effective immediately … About time - this has been over 40 years in the making.

USEF!!! WOOT!!![/QUOTE]

So, Hurley, Can I assume that you think that the HR6388 will pass?? I am just curious.

Isnt it a pity that TWHBEA and the Sore Lick industry didnt take the lead in eradicating soring? This travesty should have been taken care of within the TWH community. Kind of unreal that the government had to step in to clean up their mess. Isnt it great that USEF is taking a stand ? I wonder how many Celebration “prep” shows will no longer be able to “showcase” the Licker’s horses. Germantown was one of the bigger ones.