And still an exaggeration “hours on end.”
And now I understand why you left the thick of things.
My assumptions were understandings.
And from what you say - IF it is true - you have not spent any time with a good ASB trainer.
I know of a great one in AZ who uses all those things you speak of yet is by no means cruel.
When Andrea started out, some 12 years ago ~~~ she had allot of things wrong, Jennie & I helped her learn the physical about this horse, gaits, for example…She had and has a very strong sense of wanting to help the horse but she also wants to punish the wrong doers.
She was and is strong in her ways I nicknamed her and called her “Xena, The Warrior Princess” in our private emails.
Our problem has been of HOW, more than What, Where and Why?
I have no lies to spread about this woman, she is not that important to me in my life, besides, spreading lies about someone to me means you feel beaten by that person and you want to elevate yourself and the best way to do that besides earning it is to tear down the other person, so you remain on top.
Do not need to do that with her ~~~ I still maintain that she has great value to the cause, but she just gets so mad at things and people, she becomes nasty in my eyes, leaves little room for actual discussions or dialogue.
Andrea, to me I have no desire nor have I said it that you should leave, my point all along has been basically, “Hate the Sin, but Love the Sinner”
Yesterday, I’m at the Southern Bonanza, when a lady who used to be so into Lickin horses, she purchased her second home in a really nice gated community caddy-corner to the Celebration grounds,
We used to show against her allot, we used to fight very vocally in TWHBEA Board meeting for several years, she and the folks she ran with HATED! me. HATED!!!
Well, when we took Dressage en Gaite to TWHBEA, she rode in a couple of classes…she liked it, went out an purchased a horse that had not been molested with as her dressage and also flat shod showing horse…
She got hooked, sold her lickin horses, started taking dressage lessons in FLA, and not is one of the biggest pushers within her community of lickers making converts.
Yesterday we laughed, about our past relationship ~~~ I ask myself, would that ever happened if I had taken the hard line of persecuting, condemning her
I don’t think so, ~~~~ ya wanna know when I started learning bout this? After coming home from the war, in 1975 Viet Nam fell, a whole lot of people received asylum here in the states…
I started running into Vietnamese men of fighting age, ~~~I had hateful thoughts towards them, but started the process an understanding how I would have been should someone came to my home and did what we did to theirs.
But you see, I am much older than Andrea, more life experiences under my belt, I can see a little more clearer than she, and I would be patient in helping her get to a place as I of eradicating the problems and leaving the source in place to re cultivate a more desirable crop.
I am not fighting as some see my comments, I am trying to help her understand a different way of approaching all of this, and with her, ya gotta get down, for her to begin to hear ya…point specific things out to her which you can gauge where she is at by the tone and contents of her comments.
Everything will be alright, yes, it will
The Preacher
[INDENT][/INDENT]You bring up a good general point about “a life’s work” Mr Preacher.
Very often - specially in horses - people try to elevate themselves by tearing down others.
It never works.
And I am glad to leave Andrea’s personal stuff out of this. I just wish she would be a little more forthcoming and examine her own account of things. “Hours on end” is what I take great issue with. Right along with an “up” horse being terrified.
And here is an excerpt from a Mark Russell book I was reading today:
[INDENT]Some horses will end in-hand sessions highly stimulated. This doesn’t necessarily mean a loss of relaxation–it can represent the horse’s motivation to perform and is considered a good response. [/INDENT]
How the horse responds to the trainer at this point will show the mark of their partnership. Like a performance horse who jumps through a ring of fire, or the Arabian stallions at liberty in Cavalia…
Animation, a high head and fleet foot are not always bad.
Depends on the whole picture.
And trying to paint the entire ASB discipline as cruel and without credibility or ethic - well - just shows the limits of Andrea’s focus. Or maybe her fear that her fist pounding was off the mark.
Either way - stomping off and flipping you off shows a lot.
COme on back Andrea - I am sure there is much to attend to.
[QUOTE=frugalannie;6876687]
I’m trying to get my head around the alphabet soup of organizations and their overlap. Would anyone post an org chart or flow chart or even show overlapping squares so a non-TWH person such as myself has a glimmer of a chance of understanding?[/QUOTE]
That would be an interesting visual. In this thread we have referred to “connecting the dots” as new groups have formed through the years but are always made up of the same old hardcore performance enthusiasts. I do have a PDF file somewhere that lists all the “players” and all thier connections with the different HIOs. I will post if i can find it.
Come back Andrea.
[QUOTE=FortheTWH;6879014]
P.S. I’m sure Nate will come back on soon enough and see I’m gone and take the opportunity to spread some lies about me. If you want to believe them, go ahead. Anyone who associates with that man will eventually learn the truth behind who he really is. I trusted him once–one of the biggest mistakes I ever made.[/QUOTE]
You are so correct in your comments!
:uhoh: Could be a problem with the name PSHA.as the word performance is used in most breeds to describe a division within that breed.So how can David Howard and his gang rename the TWH performance division the PSHA Reg.
bottom line They can’t,or shouldn’t without a giant uproar from other breeds,maybe :no:they are going to let all breeds be apart of this new registry.just so they can by pass the LAW.
i dunno isnt it just a name ? The APHA took over the word paint and it became Paint. The Pinto PtHa is more inclusive. Used to be paint and pinto were interchangable but now paint means Paint. A Paint can be a Pinto, but a Pinto cannot necessarily a Paint. I always resented them taking over the name paint because as i youngster it was okay to call a horse a pinto or a paint. Since i always have loved the colored up horses, it just kind of bugged me that they combined the American Paint Quarter Horse Assoc and the American Paint Stock Horse Assoc. and stole a name i grew up with. (think Misty of Chincoteague and Indian paint ponies):lol:
The Shelbyville mob are doing it for all the wrong reasons but the way they seem to be going about it they might end up as a small group with targets on their backs at inspection time. And wont TWHBEA have to be complicit if they allow pedigrees (didnt they win a lawsuit relating to the pedigree being intellecutual property ?)to be used by a new “breed”? Is this a clever thing they are doing? I dont know, just cant wrap my head around it.
This article is almost a year old, but if you scroll down it will list board members of some of the HIOs and list their number of HPA violations. Of course it does not list the latest alphabet soup groups, but the names may overlap.
:eek:Trouble in lickerville some may be unhappy with the Mob Boss and his son.
[QUOTE=aarpaso;6882655]
:eek:Trouble in lickerville some may be unhappy with the Mob Boss and his son.[/QUOTE]
At the AQHA conference in Texas,the subject of soring was on the agenda,statement by Jay Hickey:
4 pieces of equine welfare legislation coming before the current United States Congress,its huge said Jay Hickey, Our issues(horse industry) are going to be front and center.
the HPA HR6388 is one of the 4.
its time to e-mail your congressmen/women folks
Has this series been posted? I’ve not seen it. I’m sure some will say it’s old (2009) and not done anymore. I haven’t watched the whole series.
Thanks CFF. We may have posted it earlier but its still worth a watch !
The latest from Roy. http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/3/17/246781/Roy-Exum-The-Genesis-Awards-Really.aspx
I have a question. What are the soundness effects of those horses reaching so far underneath themselves with their back legs? Their tendons are at an unnatural angle. The reason I ask is that I knew a family that pasture boarded a former TWH show mare at my barn. The horse’s pasterns were shot. Her fetlocks almost touched the ground. Shoot, it’s been awhile and I can’t remember if it was her back pasterns or front pasterns. But I remember how shocking it looked. The owners said she was a good show mare and deserved retirement (their other TWHs were at their trainer’s barn). The vet was out to put the mare down when she wasn’t comfortable moving any faster than a walk. The mare was only 14 years old.
[QUOTE=microbovine;6889407]
I have a question. What are the soundness effects of those horses reaching so far underneath themselves with their back legs? Their tendons are at an unnatural angle. The reason I ask is that I knew a family that pasture boarded a former TWH show mare at my barn. The horse’s pasterns were shot. Her fetlocks almost touched the ground. Shoot, it’s been awhile and I can’t remember if it was her back pasterns or front pasterns. But I remember how shocking it looked. The owners said she was a good show mare and deserved retirement (their other TWHs were at their trainer’s barn). The vet was out to put the mare down when she wasn’t comfortable moving any faster than a walk. The mare was only 14 years old.[/QUOTE]
IMO the entire “padding” program causes grossly negative long and short term consequences for movement across the entire suspension system. I’ve personally observed hip, stifle, hock, fetlock, and shoulder injuries. Not to mention highly abnormal hoof shape.
Breeders also select for “sickle hocks” as a bent hock allows for a longer overstep. This also seriously weakens the structure of the leg. Many laterally gaited horses will have slightly longer rear legs that a similarly conformed trotting horse. This results in the illusion of a “downhill” conformation. Al long as the additional length is modest it’s really not much of an issue.
G.
I have seen older BL’s with DSLD on the hinds.
It was her hinds. Now, I remember. Her head was down a lot and she didn’t lean forward, but she was keeping more weight on her fronts. She took a long time to start moving and avoided going uphill. I don’t have any pictures of her, but it was really shocking to see how her fetlocks almost touched the ground. I only saw the owners stop by once. They were odd.
Just watching the videos of the stacked horses along with knowing some folks who showed stacked horses - they do run into hock, suspensory and stiffle problems.
I may be wrong on this but I think it is part of the reason a lot of stacked horses stand with the fronts way under them - to get the weight off the tired hinds.
And as a side note - I have a gaiter (possibly TWH) with blown hind suspensories and UPF (though I have not seen him lock in years). When he is not comfortable (hinds swollen or shifting weight or wall sitting) he will stand with both fronts under his body.
can someone help,was it 7 violation a day at the Trainers Show,or only 7 violations for the entire show.i have been unable to find the true violation count.
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