Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6326729]
What is your discipline? Have any in your discipline ever used a pad on their horse? A rim pad even? A drop,crank,flash noseband? Stickers? Side reins? All of those can change a horse’s “action”. Tell me your discipline and I will find more for you to ponder.

The proposed law is not specific enough.

I do agree with having inspectors at all shows for soring. I also like the idea of having participants and show entities pay for it and not have the funds pulled from taxpayers.[/QUOTE]

Mostly pleasure -trail, low level dressage and I’m new to hunt seat. And nope, never even used a martingale, but I have used side reins and I can live without them.

Now, having said that I do realize and respect some of the devices as others use them. I’m just a no-fuss kind of rider,so while it doesn’t impact me per se, I believe you do have a point and it could get hairy. BUT, I have no faith in an organized ban that would be broad enough to affect every equine industry.

Remember when people were freaking out about the livestock GPS network? Remember it was going to “impact us all and we won’t be able to ride our horses off the farm!!”??? I never believed that one either.

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6326731]
QUACK QUACK!!![/QUOTE]

Waaaah waaaah!

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6326575]
What was the reason given for the mare not rising. I received a phone call from a person who told me a sore (d) horse would NOT lie down and be looking at its flank.

They wondered if there was another reason such as the start of colic or could the horse have received a mild sedative?

These are questions to which I have no response. Does anyone on COTH have first hand information?

It is a long weekend so my professor of veterinary medicine is not available for a call from me until Tuesday[/QUOTE]

The reason horses lay in their stalls is directly due to their feet hurting. I have gone to several TWH, and Racking horse shows, and you would be AMAZED at how many horses are laying flat out in their stalls, backs to their stall doors. 2 years ago, I went to the Racking Horse Celebration in Sommerville, AL. One aisle of the barn had maybe 10 stalls, and 6 of those horses were laying flat like pan cakes in their stalls. Several of the barns had horses laying flat. I have been to the BL barns, and I found this also there. SO SAD. Also they work those horses very hard. RARELY if ever in an outside “ring”. They keep their work in the barn aisle’s. And they are hard packed or concrete or asphalt. Seen it. They do not call the out door riding areas arenas, they are rings. Like a little track, small actually.

I have been to many many horse shows over the years. 3 day eventing, dressage, endurance riding (competed lots), jumping, cutting, arab shows, etc. I recall rarely if ever seeing horses laying down, maybe only at night they were laying down. If so the horse was definitely snoozing and napping. The horses laying down in these shows were very infrequent if so not at all. TWH and Racking horse shows, lots and LOTS were pan cake flat. I saw many panting also. Some had blankets some not sometimes it was hot and some times it was not. This was in broad day light, lots of activity going on around the barns, and these gaited horses were laying in their stalls like pan cakes.

I read this yesterday on Champagne Watchout’s facebook page. Yes he has his own facebook page.So that was a mare they had down in the stall. No clue if she was the one they were beating in the cross ties.

“The horse, the sweet mare being beat in the stall is named “Sweet n Loco” has been removed and placed with someone who is diligently working to make her whole again…”

I signed the online petition. I am in the 210 range.

I would LOVE to go demonstrate. I live fairly close.

I have discontinued my catalog’s (didn’t ask for them in the first place) from National Bridle. They sell like Bedford Tack all the TWH torture trainer goodies. If you have NEVER held one of those shoes in your hands, you are truly missing out. They weigh many many pounds some of the big ones. It is very shocking and sad. Bedford Tack sells them and many other heavy heavy shoes if you are in denial, go and lift one or two of them. On the front of the last cover of National Bridle it was odd because there was not TWH padded of course on the front cover. It is a picture of a little girl standing near a warmblood type horse, both are looking out ward, so you see them from behind. It is ONE FANCY barn. I actually looked to see who/where it was. No mention. Hmm. I got the catalog I think last Monday. Looked through it, still saw the same torture stuff. I called they were closed, so emailed my intent to be removed.

Dover, Smart Pak, and many other do not sell this stuff. I do ride gaited on a Rocky Mt, but I ride in all dressage type tack. It is the most comfortable to me and for my horse. So we do. I have always ridden english/dressage.

If you haven’t already watched Champagne Watchout’s 2 show videos, and read the press release page detailing what happened, you really should have a read. Also you need to READ about how they get around the soring, by drilling screws into their frogs, that way no stuff on their legs.

I voted with my dollars on a different gaited horse. I bought her in late 07. I am riding all gaited now. I never have liked what I saw and witnessed with the padding, and chose to spend my money elsewhere. Great breed.

[QUOTE=sunridge1;6326748]
Waaaah waaaah![/QUOTE]

:yes::yes:

I can’t really see it having any major effect on anyone other than BL or those that use chains/rollers and padded shoes. There will probably be an amandment to define action as movement of the horse’s legs. I don’t see side reins as affecting leg action. They don’t increase/decrease knee action, or change the horse’s stride. Nor does a flash/drop noseband.

And since it’s taken 50 yrs to even try to get something done to prevent the abuse in BL, I seriously doubt that our other disciplines are in jeopardy.

Usually what happens is one extreme side calls for something and the other extreme side calls for the opposite, and there ends up being some kind of watered down version. I just hope that there is something done to stop soring/stewarding/beating like was shown in the video.

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6326677]
Thank you for the information. I am not taking away from the video (which I haven’t seen) or any of the information.

I am against soring.

It is only the banning of equipment for training that could impact ALL breeds that is of concern to me.

This is an email I received from a person who is active within the legislative body and she reviews laws as to their relevance, accuracy and impact (not just equine)

[I]Those TWH people have really opened a can of worms for the rest of the industry by allowing this crap to go on. Shame on them for not policing their own industry.

This is an election year and just watch the pols start grandstanding on this thing. This is going to be big! Plus, the fear of some undercover HSUS at any horse operation. Just think of how a chain twitch will play on the tube for the suburban housewives when doing some yearling or two year olds feet. Neck sweats with white lather; biting rigs, action chains for your industry, etc…you are all going to be screwed due to these individuals soring horses.

BTW, HSUS planted the employee and made the vid in 2011. This won’t stop with the walking horse industry.[/I][/QUOTE]

It is this sort of saddle seat industry back peddle that will take the bite out of any meaningful laws for the TWH. ANd I presume it is how the stacked folks prevailed back in the day the HPA was drafted.

Apparantly a lot of the saddle seat high stepping indusry is totally dependent on weighted shoes as well.

Discussions like these sure expose a saddle seat achilles heel.

[QUOTE=jetsmom;6326808]
:yes::yes:

I can’t really see it having any major effect on anyone other than BL or those that use chains/rollers and padded shoes. There will probably be an amandment to define action as movement of the horse’s legs. I don’t see side reins as affecting leg action. They don’t increase/decrease knee action, or change the horse’s stride. Nor does a flash/drop noseband.

And since it’s taken 50 yrs to even try to get something done to prevent the abuse in BL, I seriously doubt that our other disciplines are in jeopardy.

Usually what happens is one extreme side calls for something and the other extreme side calls for the opposite, and there ends up being some kind of watered down version. I just hope that there is something done to stop soring/stewarding/beating like was shown in the video.[/QUOTE]

You don’t ride? What is your discipline? Are you just a pleasure rider? Do you compete in any discipline?

Action devices: Any device which is affixed or attached to a foot or limb for the sole purpose of a high step.

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6326814]
You don’t ride? What is your discipline? Are you just a pleasure rider? Do you compete in any discipline?[/QUOTE]

Hunter/jumper.

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6326822]
Action devices: Any device which is affixed or attached to a foot or limb for the sole purpose of a high step.[/QUOTE]

Thank you!

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6326822]
Action devices: Any device which is affixed or attached to a foot or limb for the sole purpose of a high step.[/QUOTE]

and? Is this definition included in the proposed law? If so, there are many Saddle Seat riders/trainers who feel a light weight roller teaches a horse to step higher without any pain. Many feel a single pad is not abusive. Where is the line drawn as to abuse or training aide?

All horses sports/show disciplines discussed on this Coth BB, ask horses to do unnatural actions.

[QUOTE=jetsmom;6326825]
Hunter/jumper.[/QUOTE]

And you do not know how side reins change a horse’s action/stride? You don’t know how various gear applied to a horse’s head can change their stride? Are you a beginner just taking your first couple of lessons?

Or are you just quacking before thinking?

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6326829]
and? Is this definition included in the proposed law? If so, there are many Saddle Seat riders/trainers who feel a light weight roller teaches a horse to step higher without any pain. Many feel a single pad is not abusive. Where is the line drawn as to abuse or training aide?

All horses sports/show disciplines discussed on this Coth BB, ask horses to do unnatural actions.[/QUOTE]

Banning the use of such action devices in the show ring would be a good place to start.

None of the other saddle seat diciplines show with the exagerated tack and devices the Walking horse people are permitted to use. The other saddle seat associations will excuse you from the class if you try and show with a martingale, chains, wraps etc etc. Anything other than a very regulated shoe and boot are prohibited.

They need to lose the cut tails - before HSUS has to make another call. No need for it.

Are you in the saddle seat world?

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6326835]
Banning the use of such action devices in the show ring would be a good place to start.

None of the other saddle seat diciplines show with the exagerated tack and devices the Walking horse people are permitted to use. The other saddleseat associations will excuse you from the calss if you try and show with a martingale, chains, wraps etc etc. Anything other than a ver regulated show and boot are prohipited.

The need to loose the cut tails - before HSUS has to make a call. No need for it.

Are you in the saddle seat world?[/QUOTE]

No,I have never ridden Saddle Seat.

I am very much against abuse like I saw in the footage posted. I agree wholeheartedly with not allowing any training devices into a show ring. I agree wholeheartedly with banning all abusive practices. I also abhor “breaking” or docking a horse’s tail.

I do disagree with the non-specific wording of the proposed law petition being circulated.

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6326829]

All horses sports/show disciplines discussed on this Coth BB, ask horses to do unnatural actions.[/QUOTE]

What’s unnatural about walk, trot, canter, gallop?

BL is unnatural and man made. I can’t believe that’s an argument.

[QUOTE=hundredacres;6326841]
What’s unnatural about walk, trot, canter, gallop?

BL is unnatural and man made. I can’t believe that’s an argument.[/QUOTE]

Or collection?:sadsmile:

DO not let the dressage peeps hear you say none of what they do is natural.

The only unnatural thing most of any on this thread do with their horse is put them between our legs and let them eat from our hands.:lol:

[QUOTE=hundredacres;6326841]
What’s unnatural about walk, trot, canter, gallop?

BL is unnatural and man made. I can’t believe that’s an argument.[/QUOTE]

I believe you stated that you do Dressage? I do not see horses doing Dressage moves naturally out in the field. :wink:

I dislike Big Lick immensely.

I disagree with the non-specific wording on the proposed law being circulated with the petition.

I believe those in the Saddle Seat world that state they can use some devices just for teaching without any abuse. Just as I believe those in H/J and Dressage can use their various training devices without abuse.

I see your point. People will continue to abuse on semantics if the law isn’t clear.

[QUOTE=hundredacres;6326851]
I see your point. People will continue to abuse on semantics if the law isn’t clear.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, and those that are not abusive will be punished unnecessarily.

[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6326840]
No,I have never ridden Saddle Seat.

I am very much against abuse like I saw in the footage posted. I agree wholeheartedly with not allowing any training devices into a show ring. I agree wholeheartedly with banning all abusive practices. I also abhor “breaking” or docking a horse’s tail.

I do disagree with the non-specific wording of the proposed law petition being circulated.[/QUOTE]

You can thank the BL folks for that too. Their insistence on naming their BL Performance horses “padded horses”. (Don’t call stacks or packages in their groups they will correct you.) Especially when most other divisions within the shows also have pads just not the monstrosities the BL now requires.
Do you think they really didn’t know the boon in the difference in the verbiage? It’s hard for me to believe they are that clever. They are now hoping the rest of leg waving crew will stand behind them echoing 'a pad is a pad is a pad…" Clever.

[QUOTE=sunridge1;6326855]
You can thank the BL folks for that too. Their insistence on naming their BL Performance horses “padded horses”. (Don’t call stacks or packages in their groups they will correct you.) Especially when most other divisions within the shows also have pads just not the monstrosities the BL now requires.
Do you think they really didn’t know the boon in the difference in the verbiage? It’s hard for me to believe they are that clever. They are now hoping the rest of leg waving crew will stand behind them echoing 'a pad is a pad is a pad…" Clever.[/QUOTE]

Again I deplore what I have seen of Big Lick horses. And I do want it stopped.

I disagree with the non-specific wording of the proposed law in the petition that is being circulated.

I very much like the idea of funding being applied to shows that they can all have inspectors. I do like the idea of making the participants and show venues pay for those inspections.

I do want exact rules as to how many and/or how tall a stack/pad can be. I do want those rules continuously tweeked until the abusers cannot get around them.

I do want pressure put on those that sponsor or support these abusive practices.

I do not support a broad brush condemnation of all TWH or Saddle Seat horsemen for the abusive practices of some.