This is a religious issue with you? Why would you bring your religious beliefs into this discussion? Or are you here to preach about your gods as your name implies?
Thats just it, hurleycane, the stacks and pads in of themselves used on any of the trotting breeds are no crueler than any of the shoeing practices of any other discipline. As in to say they are not cruel. You can allege all you want but I know from my experiences and from speaking with our veterinarians (whom also work on Olympic horses and high end reining horses) that there are no more incidence of unsoundness in trotting saddle seat breeds than there in other horses doing the same amount of performance work.
It’s fear tactic that the registries use. It doesn’t explain the thousands of JC, AQHA, APHA, ASTB (etc.) - all papered ands standing in feed lots at this very moment. They aren’t there because someone didn’t pay their dues.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Jackie’s horses end up in an auction at some point. Where are they, anyway? They sure haven’t been “rescued” by the HSUS.
you all need to know that the BL trainer (McConnell) was and is the GODFATHER of the soring club,taking him down is a big deal in the twhbea why because he knows every member of the club and how to mix the stuff.That man can ruin the TWHBEA with just a few words.He knows what State officials got paid to turn their heads, all the way to D.C.
this is about getting to the bottom of soring,stopping that curel practice.if it means the reorganization of the TWHBEA so be it.
just because a man lites a match in the forest doesn’t mean the forest is going to burn down folks.
some of you are taking this thread on a way out ride,its about the practice of Soring.beating a horse,blistering its legs until the animal can’t stand,making the pain so intence the horse screams in pain.
and don’t get on your high horse and say i don’t know what i’m talking about i rode when TRIPLE THREAT won the WGC. i was at the celebration when ACE’s Sensation won.
I KNOW WHAT THEY DO PEOPLE its time it STOPPED.
End Big Lick at the SHOWS . . .
It seems to me that if these people have no venues at which to show, if no one is putting up any prize money, if the prestigious dates on the calendar NO LONGER SPONSOR “Big Lick,” padded, “performance” divisions, these practices will die a natural death due to LACK OF INCENTIVE.
We’re working a number of angles here; let’s not divide our own house by fragmentary discussions about the merits of each. The main point is that ALL angles are exerting PRESSURE right now, and it’s the pressure of PUBLIC PERCEPTION that will force shows to stop sponsoring Big Lick.
Do YOU have a TWH show in your area? Contact them NOW and start protesting these divisions. Cite the Nightline report; link the video. Put it all on the show mgt.'s Facebook page, send it to the local paper (controversy sells!) Put so much PR pressure on each and every show that they cave in on this–every one that falls is one less place these people can profit by their practices.
As “The Preacher” said, this is NOT about ASB’s, Morgans, Arabs, W. Pleasure, or the merits of HSUS–start another thread if you want to debate the minutiae of “slippery slopes.” This is about STOPPING THE ABUSE WE SAW, NOW, TODAY, THIS COMING SEASON.
Thank you!
[QUOTE=Renae;6327542]
Thats just it, hurleycane, the stacks and pads in of themselves used on any of the trotting breeds are no crueler than any of the shoeing practices of any other discipline. As in to say they are not cruel. You can allege all you want but I know from my experiences and from speaking with our veterinarians (whom also work on Olympic horses and high end reining horses) that there are no more incidence of unsoundness in trotting saddle seat breeds than there in other horses doing the same amount of performance work.[/QUOTE]
It is the same argument by the TWH trainers. But here is something for you to consider. The only way these stacks or even the long foot and heavy shoe can be safely used on any horse is to keep them confined and restrict their movement. Which is what all these mechanically action device on the foot horses have done to them. They are either in hand, under tack or in the stall. Turn out??? No way. Their natural movement would most definitely result in an injury to the horse.
So even your knowledgeable Vets lead you astray on this very important consideration in the whole scheme of things.
Someone has got to put a simple limit on how high the pad, how long the foot, how heavy the shoe. ANd they need to lose the chains etc.
Which is why the Preacher makes sense. The only way to approach it it to go to the heart of the matter.
If you guys want ASB people to butt out of this conversation…comments like these that are directly aimed at ASB’s need to STOP!
I could not, no way, watch the program. I am one of those who just cannot watch any kind of cruelty to an animal. It makes me physically sick. As far as the sub-humans who get their rocks off doing things like this to horses, I am a firm believer in karma, and that there is a special place in Hell for them where they will get to feel soring on a whole new level.
As fas as a road trip, do they let you post bail if you murder someone?
[QUOTE=Renae;6327529]
The way I understand it, no it does not only apply to gaited horses. There was intent to have it be that way, but as it was written as an interstate commerce law that technically it applies to all horses, and that the TWH contingent at the time fought tooth and nail to keep out language that would apply it to only their horses.[/QUOTE]
Their BREED registry is not mentioned but the specific act of soring is. Your or any other breed registry has not been affected by the HPA Act for 42 years unless you are into tranporting and showing (sored)TWHs or SSHs.
[QUOTE=moonriverfarm;6327588]
I could not, no way, watch the program. I am one of those who just cannot watch any kind of cruelty to an animal. It makes me physically sick. As far as the sub-humans who get their rocks off doing things like this to horses, I am a firm believer in karma, and that there is a special place in Hell for them where they will get to feel soring on a whole new level.
As fas as a road trip, do they let you post bail if you murder someone?[/QUOTE]
Don’t get caught and then bail won’t be a concern. 
[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6327448]
Not all can perform all the moves and not all those that are shown can perform all the moves. The trainers/riders teach them and many use devices and various artificial aides,shoes etc,to do so.[/QUOTE]
May I humbly suggest you spend more time observing healthy, happy horses at play. A stallion dancing for his lady. Youngsters playing. They all will show dressage movements (even High School). But that’s a debate for another forum.
[QUOTE=asb2517;6327582]
If you guys want ASB people to butt out of this conversation…comments like these that are directly aimed at ASB’s need to STOP![/QUOTE]
I don’t think anyone wants ASB people to butt out. That just sounds like a story from one person who had one bad experience and other than that knows not a single thing about the breed. Funny, everyone that ASB-bashes seems to bust out the fire extinguisher story. In the last 15 years I’ve been boarding at an ASB barn, going to ASB shows, visiting other ASB barns throughout the midwest delivering horses, picking them up, social calls and just seeing horses in training I’ve never once seen one blasted with a fire extinguisher. Guess I hang out with a better class of loser.
The point at hand here is the plight of the BL Walking Horse and it would be nice if people wanting to whine about fire extinguishers could do it somewhere else. Quite frankly I’ve sacked my horses out with much worse than that getting them ready for parades, while I don’t condone spooking a horse with a fire extinguisher just to make them look more animated I hardly see how it compares to BL practices.
hurleycane our Saddlebreds either get regular turnout time or lungeing play time. Same goes for many other top Saddlebred barns. They certainly can be allowed to “play” in their show shoes. No they will not be out 24-7, but I do not know any other discipline with performance horses that are actively showing at the regional or national level (reiners, eventers, dressage, hunter/jumpers) where it is common for most trainers to turn their horses out 24-7 during show season either.
[QUOTE=GaitedGloryRider;6327609]
I don’t think anyone wants ASB people to butt out. That just sounds like a story from one person who had one bad experience and other than that knows not a single thing about the breed. Funny, everyone that ASB-bashes seems to bust out the fire extinguisher story. In the last 15 years I’ve been boarding at an ASB barn, going to ASB shows, visiting other ASB barns throughout the midwest delivering horses, picking them up, social calls and just seeing horses in training I’ve never once seen one blasted with a fire extinguisher. Guess I hang out with a better class of loser.
The point at hand here is the plight of the BL Walking Horse and it would be nice if people wanting to whine about fire extinguishers could do it somewhere else. Quite frankly I’ve sacked my horses out with much worse than that getting them ready for parades, while I don’t condone spooking a horse with a fire extinguisher just to make them look more animated I hardly see how it compares to BL practices.[/QUOTE]
I agree. If you’ve ever seen a carriage horse sacked out, that’s nothing. That said, after being in ASB’s for years, and winning championships, I would love to see pads and nicking gone from there also. As I’ve said before, these horses are exciting enough without all the man-made do-dads. But, again, thoughts for another thread.
Actually it was specifically requested early on in this conversation, quite adamently, that Saddlebred folks stay out of the conversation. Which is why I have been reading instead of posting for the last 15-18 pages.
[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6327448]
Not all can perform all the moves and not all those that are shown can perform all the moves. The trainers/riders teach them and many use devices and various artificial aides,shoes etc,to do so.[/QUOTE]
May I humbly suggest you note the words not all.
Unless you are over 50 and spent every day of your life gazing at 100’s of horses in a pasture, I doubt you have observed more at liberty horses than I have.
Do you honestly see a stallion as “dancing for his lady”? Would you look for a husband for a mare if you desired to breed her?
And to keep a little more on topic:
I have worked walking horses that have come up from Tennessee. One came with stacks on. They are nothing like anything I have ever seen anyone ever put on any Saddlebred, Arabian or Morgan. 8" of pads, 20 oz of lead, and not even a real shoe on the bottom, just 1/2 a shoe at the toe and the rest of the bottom covered with a piece of tire tread. The horse that came wearing those we took down to plates and her her going like a nice trail pleasure horse. Owner took her Walkers back to TN and the trainer that horse is with now does not think she has enough motion for trail pleasure, but uses that horse as a school horse and his personal trail horse. Walking Horse Plantation Pleasure shoes often easily way twice what you will see on 95% of Saddlebred (counting shoe, pads and lead). A double nailed Saddlebred shoe is a very rare exception, not normal, and is usually only done when the foot has to be cut way back to correct a problem and then built up at the correct angle and length to match the other foot (in other words therapeutic shoeing). So for those who are making such damning statements about all saddle seat seeing, on both gaited and trotting breeds, perhaps you should do a little more research and gain more experience.
[QUOTE=lifesabreeze;6327667]
May I humbly suggest you note the words not all.
Unless you are over 50 and spent every day of your life gazing at 100’s of horses in a pasture, I doubt you have observed more at liberty horses than I have.
Do you honestly see a stallion as “dancing for his lady”? Would you look for a husband for a mare if you desired to breed her?[/QUOTE]
Well over 50 and I’ll admit I have missed a few days pasture side in all those years.
[QUOTE=bludejavu;6327665]
Actually it was specifically requested early on in this conversation, quite adamently, that Saddlebred folks stay out of the conversation. Which is why I have been reading instead of posting for the last 15-18 pages.;)[/QUOTE]
I personally think you need to be part of the discussion. It is the whole “action device” thing that has got to be addressed. Saddlebreds cling to their devices. TIme to examine whether imposing restraints on these devices would be such a “bad” thing within your organization. Once you take a good honest look at it within your own association then you will be better prepared to put pressure on the stacked TWH. The sister organizations are exactly who would be in the best position to help the TWH horse.
So as The Preacher’s petition says - specifically addressing the action device is the only way to make any meaningful change for these horses.
[QUOTE=moonriverfarm;6327588]
I could not, no way, watch the program. I am one of those who just cannot watch any kind of cruelty to an animal. It makes me physically sick. As far as the sub-humans who get their rocks off doing things like this to horses, I am a firm believer in karma, and that there is a special place in Hell for them where they will get to feel soring on a whole new level.
As fas as a road trip, do they let you post bail if you murder someone?[/QUOTE]
Same here. There is no way I could watch those beautiful horses be tortured. And I beleive there is a special place in hell waiting for “people” who inflict such cruelty.
