And for those not familiar with using lead in shoeing horse a 4 oz piece of lead can change the way of going. It is used in Saddlebreds to effect the path of flight of the leg, lead does not add motion to a trotting horse. But you can help straighten a leg that wings in or out, open up the stride of a horse who goes to his elbow, or close the stride of a horse who want to hyperextend.
I wonder how many big lick owners and trainers are on this board?
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6327694]
I personally think you need to be part of the discussion. It is the whole “action device” thing that has got to be addressed. Saddlebreds cling to their devices. TIme to examine whether imposing restraints on these devices would be such a “bad” thing within your organization. Once you take a good honest look at it within your own association then you will be better prepared to put pressure on the stacked TWH. The sister organizations are exactly who would be in the best position to help the TWH horse.
So as The Preacher’s petition says - specifically addressing the action device is the only way to make any meaningful change for these horses.[/QUOTE]
The ASHA in no way considers itself a “sister” organization of the TWHBEA.
In fact, I would like to see the TWH back in the arena with those Saddlebred, Morgans, Hackneys and Standardbreds. With those groups watching over the breed - I know improvements and limitations will come for the TWH.
WHich BTW I think another reason ASB’s parted from joint shows with the TWH (other than the blatant cruelty) was the approaching heat of USDA. And I think this is why ASB as an association stays out of this conversation as well.
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6327694]
I personally think you need to be part of the discussion. It is the whole “action device” thing that has got to be addressed. Saddlebreds cling to their devices. TIme to examine whether imposing restraints on these devices would be such a “bad” thing within your organization. Once you take a good honest look at it within your own association then you will be better prepared to put pressure on the stacked TWH. The sister organizations are exactly who would be in the best position to help the TWH horse.
So as The Preacher’s petition says - specifically addressing the action device is the only way to make any meaningful change for these horses.[/QUOTE]
Excellent post.
[QUOTE=Renae;6327710]
The ASHA in no way considers itself a “sister” organization of the TWHBEA.[/QUOTE]
They once did. They shared the ring with them much like they now do with Morgans etc.
[QUOTE=bludejavu;6327665]
Actually it was specifically requested early on in this conversation, quite adamently, that Saddlebred folks stay out of the conversation. Which is why I have been reading instead of posting for the last 15-18 pages.;)[/QUOTE]
Well whoever the turd in the punch bowl was that said ASB folks need to stay out of the conversation, they don’t speak for every contributor in this thread. At the end of the day we are all horse people and it would be extremely counter-productive for us Walking Horse people to alienate ourselves from our fellow equestrians. Weren’t we just blasting the TWHBEA for making the same mistake? Alienating the non-BLers through their close-minded ways of running the association?
That makes no sense. I thought BL horses were a very small percentage of the breed. So what is this moron talking about? Sounds like they don;t know very much about their own breed
here is the new read from Tn
[QUOTE=CFFarm;6327691]
Well over 50 and I’ll admit I have missed a few days pasture side in all those years.[/QUOTE]
You have hundreds of horses on your farm?
Did you notice the words not all?
Do you honestly see a stallion as “dancing for his lady”? Would you look for a husband for a mare if you desired to breed her?
[QUOTE=GaitedGloryRider;6327733]
Well whoever the turd in the punch bowl was that said ASB folks need to stay out of the conversation, they don’t speak for every contributor in this thread. At the end of the day we are all horse people and it would be extremely counter-productive for us Walking Horse people to alienate ourselves from our fellow equestrians. Weren’t we just blasting the TWHBEA for making the same mistake? Alienating the non-BLers through their close-minded ways of running the association?[/QUOTE]
Amen!! I am not a TWH person, my passion is Paso Finos. But I am more than willing to get involved in support of TWHs subject to this torture. We ALL need to try and do something about this - because we ALL love HORSES.
[QUOTE=Dispatcher;6327737]
That makes no sense. I thought BL horses were a very small percentage of the breed. So what is this moron talking about? Sounds like they don;t know very much about their own breed[/QUOTE]
They are a small percentage of the breed, but an integral part of the TWHBEA as it is now. Your average run-of-the-mill TWH owner wouldn’t be caught dead soring and doing big lick. Many of us also refuse to support the TWHBEA financially and have deflected to other organizations like FOSH and NWHA. You see what they are left with- cruel training methods, shrinking coffers, a bad public image and nothing but their backwoods mentalities to defend their practices.
BL walkers are all about the spectacle of the show, something so artificial and over the top that comparing them to horses at liberty is pointless.
Until the public decides they don’t want to see this bizarre performance any more, which to me is clearly something that is a taste issue (like the most extreme kind of anything that’s a public spectacle), the practices of making horses look this way won’t cease.
It’s (in my mind) a perverted way to show human power and domination of horses by making them perform in this division (and not show pain, and all the rest of it). It is all just so un-natural, from the feet, the gait, to the rider’s positions. I remember in a previous thread those in the know explaining they like the horses to appear just under (or out of) control, racing around and flailing their legs and snorting. I suppose it’s like driving a fast motor boat or sportscar to ride them like they do, and to admire the riders for being able to get them around the arena. And to that end, these horses suffer because unlike other horse sports, they can’t look this way unless treated and shod in an extreme manner.
I think the shoes and the rest of it have to do with the spectacle aspect --part of the look and costume - as much as they have to do with getting the horse to raise his legs up higher. Same with those monster bits apparently needed to keep them under control.
[QUOTE=GaitedGloryRider;6327756]
They are a small percentage of the breed, but an integral part of the TWHBEA as it is now. Your average run-of-the-mill TWH owner wouldn’t be caught dead soring and doing big lick. Many of us also refuse to support the TWHBEA financially and have deflected to other organizations like FOSH and NWHA. You see what they are left with- cruel training methods, shrinking coffers, a bad public image and nothing but their backwoods mentalities to defend their practices.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely. And their statements that it would kill the breed if the BL is gone is crazy. TWH are probably one of the best and most popular trail horses out there and from what I can see gaining all the time. Just watch “Best of America by Horseback”. And with the new gaited dressage, who needs it?
[QUOTE=GaitedGloryRider;6327471]
Fairfax- So now those of us that have decided to not register our TWHBEA horses in our names, our horses are going to go to slaughter because of it? That’s a nasty thing to say.
FYI- Just because some of us are putting our money where our mouth is and not giving the TWHBEA financial support in the form of membership/registration fees doesn’t mean our horses are now “GRADE” nor does it mean nobody wants them (as in: will be shipped to slaughter immediately following our demise).
Don’t presume to know what provisions we have or have not made for our horses, and don’t presume that just because we’ve shunned our breed registry our horses are worthless. As us trail riders like to say “you can’t ride the papers” and a GOOD unregistered trail horse can hold just as much value as a registered one.
I’d like to think that there are enough Walking Horse owners out there now turning their backs on the TWHBEA and their practices that it is actually making a difference. They are bemoaning the downfall of the breed because of finances after all, aren’t they? Surely the people who are refusing to maintain membership with them and give them money in the form of registration fees is playing some small part in that.
I’ve been trying to stay open-minded to your side of the debate especially since I’ve been boarding at a Saddlebred barn for 15 years owned by a lovely woman who takes excellent care of her horses, and have seen how action devices CAN be used in a humane manner for training purposes. But when you make asinine statements like that it just makes me want to flip you the bird.[/QUOTE]
Please re-read my post. My concern regarding non registered purebreds is based on my knowledge of rescue and groups since 1988.
I clearly stated that wills can be over turned (happens all of the time) and a registered horse has a better opportunity than a grade horse especially due to excess numbers of horses available in the U.S.
I am sure many of you were aware of the fight Toni had with World Famous Callaway Farms when her mother died and her brother challenged the will and wanted those horses G O N E
Please don’t take it so personal. The point of registration has been made to everyone in every breed by others with a lot more knowledge than I possess.
Forgive me if this has already been asked, but this beating about the head with what looks like an ax/twitch handle, shocking and the application of caustic materials to the legs, I would think, is animal abuse or torture… which is generally illegal, isn’t it?
So regardless of WHY they do it, that they do should get them in some serious hot water with their local AC or law enforcement…
At the very least these ‘trainers’ should be arrested and their horses removed and they should never be allowed to have horses again… what am I missing?
here is another view
get the name Marty Irby,any relation to Dr.Irby of Waterfall farms that used Jackie McConnell as a trainer.
FYI Marty Irby is pres of TWHBEA
every body at TWHBEA need to change.
Yes, the ASB people were asked at least a couple of times to start their own thread to discuss their breed. Although ASBs and TWHs actually used to hold lots joint shows-- especially back in the day-- in Louisiana the last big joint arena show they held together was the Dixie Jubilee- and that show bit the dust several years ago as far as being a jointly held show.I believe the Saddlebred part was revived as a spring show-- but the old Dixie Jubilee joint show is dead.
Here is an interesting link to a case that involves both the McConnells- Jackie and his wife Cynthia.
http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/cases/cruel/mcconnell.htm
It is NOT about the most recent incident, which has been under discussion here. It stems from a charge of soring that happened in 1998!! That’s right 1998-- and McConnell was still beating and soring horses when this most recent under cover video was made WHILE ANREADY UNDER SUSPENSION for yet another case of soring that apparently happend after the one above-- I believe.
McConnell has apparently had his training license suspended several times in the past as well-- before this most recent decision by the WHTA made just days ago.
BUT, he has been allowed to show, has won a WGC and several championships at the Celebration and countless blue ribbons all over-- all since 1998.
For the record, he was WHTA Trainer of the Year in 1986. And here is a link that details his connection with one of the BL supporters whom I believe had a horse at his barn when that video was made. They apparently have a long association —
http://www.twhbea.com/voice/Features/Sherman.htm
Again, the TWHBEA the NSHC and now SHOW and the other HIOs have had 60 years or more to step up to the plate and eliminate soring by just changing their show rules to prohibit the use of pads, action devices, bell boots, and hoofbands in the ring and on the show grounds. — They have not done it.
Can we expect them to do it now? If they don’t do it, who will do it? For all of those who don’t have much faith in the government and don’t want government “interference” – well the, I guess you all had better start pressuring the TWHBEA and the HIOs like crazy to do it themselves BEFORE the government does step in.
I think THIS time- thanks to the Internet-- there is going to be enough outrage spread far and wide long enough that the government will step in if the TWHBEA doesn’t clean up its mess.
BTW- All of the soring and stewarding practices filmed at the McConnells’ barn fall under the animal cruelty laws of the state of Tennessee, but I don’t believe any state charges have been filed.Tennessee has the proof now on video-- has McConnell been charged with animal cruelty under state law yet?
I don’t think any trainer has ever been procecuted under state laws for animal crelty-- that goes for any of the trainers in all of the Southeastern states who HAVE been cited with soring under the HPA of 1970- the federal law-- at shows held in Mississippi, Tennessee, Louisiana, Alabama and Georgia during the past 42 years.
Oh, and for those worried about the “upcoming show season”-- I’ve got news-- the 2012 TWH show season is already in full swing (no pun intended). The Mississippi State Charity Horse Show and the National Trainers Spring Show have already been held. The Spring Fun Show at the Celebration grounds will be held in May along with the semi-annual meetings of the TWHBEA BoD and committees.
There have been little one-night Saturday shows going on all over the Southeast since March every weekend. To get some idea of just how many shows there are, go to walkinghorsechat’s calendar of events.
Thanks GaitedGloryRider - I don’t know if I would call A Walk in the Woods a turd in a punch bowl, but you started off my Monday with a grin.
I have always felt that anyone who rides a saddle seat ridden breed has a vested interest in these kinds of topics. Glad to know you agree with me.
