This is why I said ‘sound’ rather than ‘flat shot’
:winkgrin:
MyKindaFlower has a great suggestion. The power of social media is strongest on the review sites – where businesses (for the most part) can not delete but only respond to criticism. If we look up each of these sponsors and find them on Yelp, Yahoo and other review sites – and post that you would not patronize a business that endorses animal abuse through sponsorship of the Celebration (of Horse Abuse) … it might make an impact!
That’s what I was thinking King’s Ransom. One or two reviews wouldn’t really have an impact but 25 or 50 or 100? That has more potential to convince the sponsors of the Celebration that maybe the big lick trainers are more trouble than they are worth. It only takes a minute or two to come up with a quick little - probably a good business but I wouldn’t do business with someone that sponsors the kind of abuse commonly associated with the big lick.
So, what SHOULD happen if a horse I own is ticketing for a two footer/bilateral soring?
what do you mean “what SHOULD happen”? what SHOULD happen is you should be irate, fire your trainer, possibly sue your trainer for damaging your horse, cooperate with the law in trying to get your abusive trainer thrown into jail, and vow to find a clean trainer for your horse.
In the meantime, everyone involved in abusing your horse (including you) should be fined by the showing organization, banned FOR LIFE from showing if this is you or your trainers second violation (we’ll give em two chances), and also prosecuted under the federal law you and your trainer broke.
There’s simply no excuse good enough to explain why a horse should ever have caustic chemicals poured on his feet (torture by anyone’s definition).
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6332273]
WITW -
It does not have to be done at a show:
The HPA is a Federal law that prohibits horses subjected to
a practice called soring from participating in shows,
sales, exhibitions, or auctions.[/QUOTE]
TN law
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stustnst39_14_201_212.htm#s202
§ 39-14-202. Cruelty to animals
(a) A person commits an offense who intentionally or knowingly:
(1) Tortures, maims or grossly overworks an animal;
(2) Fails unreasonably to provide necessary food, water, care or shelter for an animal in the person’s custody;
(3) Abandons unreasonably an animal in the person’s custody;
(4) Transports or confines an animal in a cruel manner; or
I Inflicts burns, cuts, lacerations, or other injuries or pain, by any method, including blistering compounds, to the legs or hooves of horses in order to make them sore for any purpose including, but not limited to, competition in horse shows and similar events.[/I]
[QUOTE=wendy;6332719]
what do you mean “what SHOULD happen”? what SHOULD happen is you should be irate, fire your trainer, possibly sue your trainer for damaging your horse, cooperate with the law in trying to get your abusive trainer thrown into jail, and vow to find a clean trainer for your horse.
In the meantime, everyone involved in abusing your horse (including you) should be fined by the showing organization, banned FOR LIFE from showing if this is you or your trainers second violation (we’ll give em two chances), and also prosecuted under the federal law you and your trainer broke.
There’s simply no excuse good enough to explain why a horse should ever have caustic chemicals poured on his feet (torture by anyone’s definition).[/QUOTE]
That is exactly what I was asking, Wendy, I don’t know what you find confusing about it. Since apparently the current penalties for a two footer, which do penalize the owner, are not ‘enough’, what penalties do the reader’s suggest would be stiff enough to encourage/prod/force owners to say “show clean, period. Do not take any chances, do not do anything bad to my horse. Just train him, and show him”.
I am asking a serious question. I don’t know how what I phrased could be confusing. I can’t make people have the same ethics and morals that I have, or you have, that’s silly to want people to want to be irate, frankly. Some will just be aggravated at being caught, currently. But maybe the penalties can be written in such a way that the owners collectively say I love showing and being in the industry more than I love getting that little bit of extra oomph that ___ seems to give this horse. I’ll give it up, because I do want to show, and I finally see there’s too much risk if I push my trainer to do 'whatever it takes."
[QUOTE=carolprudm;6332789]
TN law
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stustnst39_14_201_212.htm#s202
§ 39-14-202. Cruelty to animals
(a) A person commits an offense who intentionally or knowingly:
(1) Tortures, maims or grossly overworks an animal;
(2) Fails unreasonably to provide necessary food, water, care or shelter for an animal in the person’s custody;
(3) Abandons unreasonably an animal in the person’s custody;
(4) Transports or confines an animal in a cruel manner; or
I Inflicts burns, cuts, lacerations, or other injuries or pain, by any method, including blistering compounds, to the legs or hooves of horses in order to make them sore for any purpose including, but not limited to, competition in horse shows and similar events.[/I][/QUOTE]
Well THAT’S pretty clear, isn’t it?
Those who believe that banning pads and action devices will get rid of soring are sorely mistaken.
I just prefer not to play in the big show sandbox. Not because I am for or against soring(I am against soring), but I am against risking getting a ticket while the hornet nest is stirred. When all the drama occurs as is current, watch and see the number of violations found at shows rise. All sides get angry from the owners/exhibitors to the HIO/DQP and ultimately the owners/ehibitors and horses pay.
I believe there is more good then bad in the industry and I believe the HIO/DQP inspection is a wonderful idea. The only problem I have seen is sore and nonsore horses being ticketed.
I am still confused how a horse can be inspected before going in to an arena and is found to be ‘clean’ and then found to be in violation for scar rule after the class is over. Scars are not gone one minute and back another. Watch a horse knock anywhere below the knee with a hoof wet with polish and now you have a foreign substance which is illegal…fly sprays, residue, etc. These horses pretty much need to be washed with plain water and have nothing brought near them besides the saddle to keep from being in violation for foreign substances.
My own horse is older and has scars around his front pasterns from being a ding bat a few years ago and getting caught in a fence. You can hardly see them unless you are digging around but it is enough that I will never show him in an inspected show ever.
I’d be curious to see horses in other high level sports have samples taken and tested to the TWH standard. How many do you think would come up in violation?
[QUOTE=King’s Ransom;6332552]
MyKindaFlower has a great suggestion. The power of social media is strongest on the review sites – where businesses (for the most part) can not delete but only respond to criticism. If we look up each of these sponsors and find them on Yelp, Yahoo and other review sites – and post that you would not patronize a business that endorses animal abuse through sponsorship of the Celebration (of Horse Abuse) … it might make an impact![/QUOTE]
Start or continue supporting HSUS in their work in investigating horse abuse.
It’s easy. The whole division needs to go away. No artifical pads, stacks at all. And as an ex Saddlebred person I believe that for them too, in fact, all artifically amplified breed classes (Arabs, Morgans, etc. Along with tail nicking. It’s totally unneccesary. Let the best horse win with his natural gaits. Yeah, I know, I’m Pollyanna.
[QUOTE=CFFarm;6332923]
It’s easy. The whole division needs to go away. No artifical pads, stacks at all. And as an ex Saddlebred person I believe that for them too, in fact, all artifically amplified breed classes (Arabs, Morgans, etc. Along with tail nicking. It’s totally unneccesary. Let the best horse win with his natural gaits. Yeah, I know, I’m Pollyanna.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Except I think there needs to be a pad height allowance, to permit wedge pads for medical reasons or thin pads for horses that need the sole protection.
But eliminating BL, and also examing even the flat shod horses (and all gaited horses), for soring would help. At least examining any horse that places.
[QUOTE=MistyBlue;6332344]
“Torture” means every act, omission, or neglect whereby unreasonable physical pain, suffering, or death is caused or permitted, but nothing in this part shall be construed as prohibiting the shooting of birds or game for the purpose of human food.
So can’t the local animal cruelty laws be applied to that moron AFTER the HPA issue is decided?[/QUOTE]
This is from Barney Davis’ testimony:
WITNESS: These are, this is what we call a pair of 2 six-ounce chains. They actually weigh six ounces is why. And they actually go around the horse’s, top of his hoof.
THE COURT: Uh-huh.
THE WITNESS: Makes them carry the chain longer when they’re sore.
THE COURT: Does it – oh, when they’re sore?
THE WITNESS: When they’re sore.
THE COURT: Does that actually hurt the horse?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. I mean, this is the whole purpose, I mean, this is what makes them walk. I mean, this is on top of the sore and they carry the chain longer.
THE COURT: Is it just – the reason as opposed to just adding weight, it actually hurts?
THE WITNESS: Right. Yeah.
Sounds like torture to me. Knowingly, purposefully inflicting physical pain and suffering. :mad:
[QUOTE=CFFarm;6332923]
It’s easy. The whole division needs to go away. No artifical pads, stacks at all. And as an ex Saddlebred person I believe that for them too, in fact, all artifically amplified breed classes (Arabs, Morgans, etc. Along with tail nicking. It’s totally unneccesary. Let the best horse win with his natural gaits. Yeah, I know, I’m Pollyanna.[/QUOTE]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly my thoughts. ALL needs to just go away, POOF. Yes, in all breeds.
Ima Pollyanna too.
Me too.
Again from Barney Davis’ testimony:
THE WITNESS: Every walking horse that enters in a show ring is sore.
[QUOTE=jetsmom;6332982]
I agree. Except I think there needs to be a pad height allowance, to permit wedge pads for medical reasons or thin pads for horses that need the sole protection.
But eliminating BL, and also examing even the flat shod horses (and all gaited horses), for soring would help. At least examining any horse that places.[/QUOTE]
They are all inspected prior to showing. If it’s judged, it’s inspected, all the way down to leadline horses. They are inspected in a bridle only, no saddle. This is often videotaped for review if needed or perhaps prosecuted.
The horse cannot leave the warm up area after being inspected. Once you pass inspection you must keep that horse in the warm up area. Saddles and such get hauled by hand or cart from trailer to said area.
Those who place are also inspected after showing.
problem: Horses wearing a 6 oz chain that passed inspection prior to showing have been ticketed after coming out of showing and having their now muddy/wet sand covered chains, weighed and found over the legal limit. That’s a bogus application of a well intended rule.
[QUOTE=Kadenz;6333058]
Again from Barney Davis’ testimony:
THE WITNESS: Every walking horse that enters in a show ring is sore.[/QUOTE]
I’ve shown sound walking horses in TWH competition. So has Rudy. And many, many others.
Barney wanted to make everyone look bad so he looked relatively ‘normal’. Everybody’s doing it =/= the truth.
Get rid of the chains, reduce the pads, set a limit on the weights and you will improve the freaking gait to something much better than the crawl. People absolutely abhore the crawl and all that it takes to make it. The pads, the chains the weighted shoes, the huge shanks etc etc.
Soring and bats and cattle prods ??? Can you imagine any horse that was not incumbered with a huge clumsy shoe or sore foot would not immediately toss a rider to the ground??Can you??? If that a$$ had taken a bat to an agile un-incumbered horse he would have been fill dirt for the isleway in a heart beat.
And I would love to see all HIO entry fees doubled so the USDA could be reimbursed for its freaking 40 years of overseeing this BS called “heritage and tradition.”
ENough with the pads are good stuff.
Why don’t we just work on public perception, with the momentum that’s already been started here?
If exaggerated, unnatural gaits in whatever breed are perceived by horse owners and the general public who attend the shows as artificially induced by inherently abusive practices, they will be stigmatized. No one will want to show in those divisions, and the shows will quickly stop offering them once there are no entries. At which point all incentive to continue these practices completely disappears. I really feel that’s the angle we need to work!
I’m thrilled by all the media attention this has gotten and by the momentum to end big lick. Even my non horsey mother has taken up the cause and has been posting up a storm on FB.
I do wish I was a more spiteful person because I’d love to spam my former church with the Nightline video. They got into bed with a big lick owner who promised them money from the sale of a horse named after the church and then sponsored the poor horse too. Church members passed out water with the horse’s name on it at the Celebration, among other things. The church pretty much told me to sit down and shut up when I complained and told me I didn’t know what I was talking about. And of course the horse’s trainer had HPA violations. I’m so glad to have left that church…
