Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

[Fairfax]

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6342407]
He certainly did more than any of the folks you support with your posts and dollars.[/QUOTE]

Please share with us what he has done. NOT what he has just taken credit for…

Since he has been, and rightly so, anti soring…until this past month, what has he accomplished through HSUS to protect the TWH?

He takes credit for his establishment of a non soring circuit however I have been told he was a very minimal player.

As a judge he had an opportunity and obligation to bring the act of soring to national prominence.

[hurleycane]

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6342416]
We can expect the equivalent in anti horse advertising in the near future:

One pamphlet that addressed the wearing of fur, was headlined "Your Mommy Kills Animals," featuring a cartoon of a mother slicing a knife into a rabbit’s stomach. Another was called, “Your Daddy Kills Animals!” with an image of a father gutting a fish.

“Since your daddy is teaching you the wrong lessons about right and wrong, you should teach him fishing is killing,” the pamphlet. "Until your daddy learns it’s not fun to kill, keep your doggies and kitties away from him. He’s so hooked on killing defenseless animals, they could be next."

This is my reason to exclude HSUS and any group working with them to remove horses (or any animal) from a show scene.

It IS, however, a time for individuals to DEMAND that inspections take place for the TWH in ALL DIVISIONS and that costs be covered by every TWH entry in a show due to the flat shod soring issues also exposed.[/QUOTE]

The TWH “rated” shows do cover their own costs already - of course they are inspecting themselves so to speak.

[hurleycane]

It is the costs of prosecuting and she random USDA (government agency) inspections that are taxpayor funded.

I think every time USDA has to spend $$ to prosecute a member of any horse show association, THAT association should also be fined in cases where the member has a history of Horse Protection Act Violations and was allowed to remain an active member. Remember the HPA does not limit what the show and breeders associations can do in legal or punitive actions.

ALso, I want t bring up another point that I am surprised has not been brought up. SOme of these “tickets” maybe something as simple as wearing the wrong shoe in a class. LIke wearing a plantation shoe in a light shod class. Both are “legal” but if you enter the wrong class - you get a ticket.

FOr the saddleseat folks, it would be like entering a horse with the mane roached in a pleasure class.

[Tamara_in_TN]

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6342383]
Keith Dane, head of HSUS horse protection has a 35 year history with TWH’s and has never been effective in making any changes. He was with FOSH for a decade and he takes credit for the “non soring anti big lick” show circuit.
Keith Dane HAD a decade of opportunity to make a difference to the breed, and he only applied self serving lip stick to the issue.[/QUOTE]

I met Keith Dane nearly 20 years ago.

Your assertions of him are wrong and perhaps merit retractions.

Just FYI.

Tamara

[Fairfax]

[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;6342470]
I met Keith Dane nearly 20 years ago.

Your assertions of him are wrong and perhaps merit retractions.

Just FYI.

Tamara[/QUOTE]

None coming from me.

I have watched Keith Dane huff and puff for over 20 years and take credit for much valuable work done also,m by others.

That is not to say he was not instumental with the founding of the “non soring circuit” however he did not create it all on his own.

He did speak out against soring, but so have many others. He was no more effective than they were or are.

He was chosen by HSUS to “lead” the horse protection division as they did not have someone with a history that was relevanmt, to be their spokes person.

Next time you “meet” Keith, ask him how much money HSUS is going to put into solving the soring crisis.

You will get the song and dance and explaination that the role of HSUS is greater than just ONE BREED. Its agenda is too important to spend money on solving one issue at a time. It must look after the greater picture…

Translated" One Generation and Out. The demise of the domestic horse.

Just don’t count on Keith nor the HSUS to help solve the issue. They will, however, assist in drawing up legislation to destroy horse shows and horse breeds.

Don’t let the HSUS and Keith derail anti soring into their own program…if you keep it on course, with the media…dramatic changes will occur for the good

[walknsound]

[QUOTE=hurleycane;6342407]
He certainly did more than any of the folks you support with your posts and dollars.[/QUOTE]

That’s what I was thinking. However, all that aside, I’m grateful for any and all exposure. Our goal now should be to keep the soring/action devices pot stirred. Sound horse people cannot let this be swept under the rug/die. E-mail the judge, your congressperson! Keep this front and center!!! We must maximize the exposure regardless of where it came from. This post directed at everyone, not just Hurley. Maximizing exposure my current soapbox.

[Tamara_in_TN]

@Fairfax;6342554

None coming from me.

then,our conversations are ended.

Tamara

[hurleycane]

Hurleycane… don’t leave Cane out. He is the one that got me started in this whole gaited mess.

Fairfax avoids my questions… WHY???

[jetsmom]

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6342416]
We can expect the equivalent in anti horse advertising in the near future:

One pamphlet that addressed the wearing of fur, was headlined "Your Mommy Kills Animals," featuring a cartoon of a mother slicing a knife into a rabbit’s stomach. Another was called, “Your Daddy Kills Animals!” with an image of a father gutting a fish.

“Since your daddy is teaching you the wrong lessons about right and wrong, you should teach him fishing is killing,” the pamphlet. "Until your daddy learns it’s not fun to kill, keep your doggies and kitties away from him. He’s so hooked on killing defenseless animals, they could be next."

This is my reason to exclude HSUS and any group working with them to remove horses (or any animal) from a show scene.

It IS, however, a time for individuals to DEMAND that inspections take place for the TWH in ALL DIVISIONS and that costs be covered by every TWH entry in a show due to the flat shod soring issues also exposed.[/QUOTE]

That wasn’t a HSUS pamphlet. And to imply it was, is disingenuous.

[WalkInTheWoods]

Thank you all. Ive been sitting here typing up a rebuttal to Fairfax, but i usually just ignore him. Havent decided whether to post it or continue to ignore him. It sits in notepad and may stay there.

[Fairfax]

[QUOTE=jetsmom;6342837]
That wasn’t a HSUS pamphlet. And to imply it was, is disingenuous.[/QUOTE]

That was taken from the PETA pamphlet and has also been used by HSUS agents across the country. The rep, Shelley McDougall of Pensicola Florida included those exact phrases when she was giving a talk to a grade 6 class in Pensicola. We were thankful a parent was there and caught it all on a recorder. We didn’t know until that time, that HSUS was actually lifting information from PETA…although we were aware of their ongoing meetings and behind the scenes suport with their lobby groups.

Hurleycane???What questions??? You made the following statement…He certainly did more than any of the folks you support with your posts and dollars.

Tamara in Tenn. Okay

[Fairfax]

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6342883]
Thank you all. Ive been sitting here typing up a rebuttal to Fairfax, but i usually just ignore him. Havent decided whether to post it or continue to ignore him. It sits in notepad and may stay there.[/QUOTE]

I am unclear what the problem appears to be.

I am mentioning that HSUS is NOT YOUR FRIEND.

They will only do what helps their coffers.

They do not provide money to prosecute, they do not provide legal research for the prosecution. They do take pictures and make a lot of money off of donations by insinuating that the money donated will save these poor creatures.

I am all for your work against soring.

I am critical of Mr. Danes as he has had YEARS to make a meaningful impact and while he most certainly has done some good things, he has NOT, since “switching” to a paid position within HSUS made any inroads until this year with the video.

That video was used to garner attention to them as their fund raising took a major hit for the last quarter of 2011 and first quarter of 2012.

It does take time to develope a story for any TV program so I will definitely cut them slack for that. However when they were asked by Diane’s producer when they wanted it aired, they chose to wait UNTIL this spring.

Of course a greater impact with show season however that clearly states to me, it was not about stopping the abuse for the horses.

[jetsmom]

@Fairfax;6343050

That was taken from the PETA pamphlet and has also been used by HSUS agents across the country. The rep, Shelley McDougall of Pensicola Florida included those exact phrases when she was giving a talk to a grade 6 class in Pensicola. We were thankful a parent was there and caught it all on a recorder. We didn’t know until that time, that HSUS was actually lifting information from PETA…although we were aware of their ongoing meetings and behind the scenes suport with their lobby groups.

Can you provide proof of this, and proof of her position with the HSUS? I googled it and found nothing.

[Fairfax]

[QUOTE=jetsmom;6343159]
Can you provide proof of this, and proof of her position with the HSUS? I googled it and found nothing.[/QUOTE]

We have the tape and I will see if it can somehow be converted to a u tube. It is only the voice. Google does not have everything in the world listed on it.

I sure do find it strange that so many of you will fight to the death FOR HSUS which does NOTHING to help you or your cause.

Meanwhile…back at the ranch…little will change other than HSUS will get more legislation in…

How about their “suggestion” from Mr. Dane that ALL HORSE BREEDERS BE CHARGED A FOAL TAX which would be given to HSUS to provide a forever home.

If you believe that…I will be able to sell you a bridge in the mohavi desert.

[jetsmom]

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6343192]
We have the tape and I will see if it can somehow be converted to a u tube. It is only the voice. Google does not have everything in the world listed on it.

.[/QUOTE]
A tape of someone saying something, where they are unidentifiable, is meaningless. You could tape yourself saying it, and claim it is a rep for HSUS. How about something showing her position with the HSUS, and link to a transcript of her speech/date of speech. Because she could just be a PETA supporter, using that phrase in a class that she was invited to speak in. I want some proof that she actually works for the HSUS. Otherwise someone could say whatever they want and try to attribute it to an organization.

And I don’t like seeing anyone lied about. That is why I am asking for this. You seem to defend horse neglecters/horse abusers, and make statements that are imflammatory about people/groups but can’t back up those statements. That is why I want proof that “Shirley” works for the HSUS, and stated what you say to 6th graders.

Dane did a great service to the animals by helping to expose the abuse in the videos. If he is voted off the board, because of him exposing abuse, he needs to have horse people defend him. Not badmouth him. Unless you condone soring.

[Fairfax]

[QUOTE=jetsmom;6343235]
A tape of someone saying something, where they are unidentifiable, is meaningless. You could tape yourself saying it, and claim it is a rep for HSUS. How about something showing her position with the HSUS, and link to a transcript of her speech/date of speech. Because she could just be a PETA supporter, using that phrase in a class that she was invited to speak in. I want some proof that she actually works for the HSUS. Otherwise someone could say whatever they want and try to attribute it to an organization.

And I don’t like seeing anyone lied about. That is why I am asking for this. You seem to defend horse neglecters/horse abusers, and make statements that are imflammatory about people/groups but can’t back up those statements. That is why I want proof that “Shirley” works for the HSUS, and stated what you say to 6th graders.

Dane did a great service to the animals by helping to expose the abuse in the videos. If he is voted off the board, because of him exposing abuse, he needs to have horse people defend him. Not badmouth him. Unless you condone soring.[/QUOTE]

I have generally provided everything for every question for every thread…unlike others. And, when I do…then I have been ignored and the question reasked numerous pages down…check back

I ahve no reason to doubt the person speaking was who they say they were. They were INVITED BY THE SCHOOL…and she identifies herself…back ground of school kids asking questions…I don’t think anyone has the time or money to stage that.

Dane did bring forth the videos. No douibt about it. However don’t for one moment think this is his priority. He is bogged down on the horse slaughter issue…

Defending horse abusers…I stand by what I said…and so did the courts. That has been rehashed numerous times and has no purpose to bring up on this forum for soring.

There you go…snide comment about me condoning soring.

I very clearly stated and have stated I am against soring.

End of that issue.

Here you go Jetsmom…I am going to back off…lets watch you keep this thread going…come up with suggestions (I did mention snail mail has more impact when writing to a politician) and lets see what you can do.

Perhaps you can share with me, and others, what you have accomplished via posts, threads on this or any forum.

I KNOW what I have accomplished as do so many others.

This is a time for you to sing your own praises and then put them to work to end all soring.

The best of luck to you

[hurleycane]

Fairfax - What are you and yours doing to improve this situation? By yours - I am referring to the professional equestrian associations you patronize or support.

Walkinginthwoods - Other than HSUS, who is mounting legal efforts to limit the action devices? stacks? chains? The Preacher started a good effort with the petition, but I have not heard of any other real and meaningful effort to get behind with $$. I know some years ago I read up on the USDA hearings and such. ANd in those USDAofficials made mention of enforcing limits on these stacks - but the stacks are still there. It is that kind of stuff I would like to find out more about.

You have had some great links btw. ANd thanks for that.

[nashfad]

I cannot get over that some will argue how wrong it was/is to use a hidden camera to video abuse of any animal. If there is no abuse, there is no video. Pretty simple. You don’t get mad when pedophiles or drug dealers are caught on undercover video. What’s the difference??? I am not all in favor of the HSUS but they got the job done when no one else would/could. Now some of you cry “foul”.

[jetsmom]

[QUOTE=nashfad;6343514]
I cannot get over that some will argue how wrong it was/is to use a hidden camera to video abuse of any animal. If there is no abuse, there is no video. Pretty simple. You don’t get mad when pedophiles or drug dealers are caught on undercover video. What’s the difference??? I am not all in favor of the HSUS but they got the job done when no one else would/could. Now some of you cry “foul”.[/QUOTE]

Ditto.
Keep those letters to the judge/govt reps coming. LOVE the idea of a billboard.

[bayou_bengal]

Maybe a photo of a horse who “lost his toe” when one of those “packages” came flying off would be good on a bill board along with a close up of a “package” and a horse doing the Big Yuck as another poster called it.

Package is-- the stack of pads, shoe and hoofbands that hold this all together- “package” get it? Sick no matter what you call it.