Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

[aarpaso]

unfortunately,what you say may be tru.but the TWHBEA and the CELEBRATION have had 40 yrs to fix this issue,because of greed they did not and NOW is The time for the USDA, AVMA AAEP and others ie BIG BROTHER me and you to do it for them.

if all the other horse breed REGISTRIES,had told the TWH Associations. you need to STOP the SORING,if they had forced the CELEBRATION to change the RULES of the PREFORMANCE CLASSES,than Big Brother could stay out of this matter. they DID NOT.
the first charges on Jackie the Jerk was 1979,again in 1989,but he made the hall of FAME that speaks volumes to me. its going to take BIG BROTHER to OUTLAW SORING.

the HIO did not do its job period. the DQPs did not do their jobs period.

someone MUST SPEAK for these Horses NOW if it has to be Big Brother than so be it.

jmho

[walknsound]

[QUOTE=aarpaso;6379825]
unfortunately,what you say may be tru.but the TWHBEA and the CELEBRATION have had 40 yrs to fix this issue,because of greed they did not and NOW is The time for the USDA, AVMA AAEP and others ie BIG BROTHER me and you to do it for them.

if all the other horse breed REGISTRIES,had told the TWH Associations. you need to STOP the SORING,if they had forced the CELEBRATION to change the RULES of the PREFORMANCE CLASSES,than Big Brother could stay out of this matter. they DID NOT.
the first charges on Jackie the Jerk was 1979,again in 1989,but he made the hall of FAME that speaks volumes to me. its going to take BIG BROTHER to OUTLAW SORING.

the HIO did not do its job period. the DQPs did not do their jobs period.

someone MUST SPEAK for these Horses NOW if it has to be Big Brother than so be it.

jmho[/QUOTE]

So true. It must stop, period.

[Fairfax]

[QUOTE=sunridge1;6378959]
I’m really afraid they will. Lots of moaning and groaning from ASB peeps much to my dismay. Heaven forbid they take their stretchies and wedges away. Meanwhile I recently watched an ASB show online where in a class of 6 adult horses nary a one was sound and the second place winner was 3 legged lame. sigh So far removed from normal, they apparently can’t see it.[/QUOTE]

What show was that Mary?

[Fairfax]

[QUOTE=bayou_bengal;6379497]
I can’t believe the ASB and Morgan people would hop into bed with the TWBEA over this after having spent decades distancing themselves from even the flat shod walkers because of the BL foolishness.

I hope they will not be so foolish as to ruin their reputations by taking up for those Big Lickers when so many sound flat shod walking horse supporters finally feel we might have the BLs (and their flat shod imitators) on the run. FINALLY![/QUOTE]

Where did you read they were going to join in with TWBEA?

There is nothing on the website and ASHA does not appear to know anything about them supporting…they are only aware of the recent soring developments…the same as the rest of us.

[sunridge1]

Midwest Charity. Playing now on Seehorse video. It reminded of the Park Arab classes.http://www.seehorsevideo.com/streaming.asp

[bayou_bengal]

[QUOTE=Fairfax;6380273]
Where did you read they were going to join in with TWBEA?

There is nothing on the website and ASHA does not appear to know anything about them supporting…they are only aware of the recent soring developments…the same as the rest of us.[/QUOTE]

Why I was just responding to ANOTHER cother’s post that expressed the fear that these other saddleseat breeds may join with the TWH people if a ban is proposed on the pads and action devices.

Read the thread for yourself Fairfax. I’m sure you can find that post for yourself.

[walknsound]

From the Tennessean this morning.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120616/NEWS21/306160037/Walking-horse-trainers-begin-swab-tests?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News

[GaitedGloryRider]

Quote from the article: "In the trainers’ announcement, association President Jamie Hankins said he was disappointed with the veterinarians’ statement, although he noted, “We are encouraged that it clearly and correctly pointed out that our action device and package cause no harm to our horse.” "

Huh what? Did the veterinarian’s statement really say that action devices and packages were harmless or is this just another case of the trainers twisting words to suit their agenda and sticking their heads in the sand?

[walknsound]

[QUOTE=GaitedGloryRider;6380875]
Quote from the article: "In the trainers’ announcement, association President Jamie Hankins said he was disappointed with the veterinarians’ statement, although he noted, “We are encouraged that it clearly and correctly pointed out that our action device and package cause no harm to our horse.” "

Huh what? Did the veterinarian’s statement really say that action devices and packages were harmless or is this just another case of the trainers twisting words to suit their agenda and sticking their heads in the sand?[/QUOTE]

Exactly what it is, more of their BS. Fox in the henhouse. How stupid do they think people are? :no:

[Fairfax]

[QUOTE=walknsound;6380937]
Exactly what it is, more of their BS. Fox in the henhouse. How stupid do they think people are? :no:[/QUOTE]

Very, and with lots of evidence

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=GaitedGloryRider;6380875]
Quote from the article: "In the trainers’ announcement, association President Jamie Hankins said he was disappointed with the veterinarians’ statement, although he noted, “We are encouraged that it clearly and correctly pointed out that our action device and package cause no harm to our horse.” "

Huh what? Did the veterinarian’s statement really say that action devices and packages were harmless or is this just another case of the trainers twisting words to suit their agenda and sticking their heads in the sand?[/QUOTE]

I am satisfied, based upon my experience, that the creation of a BL horse can’t be done without causing significant long and short term injury to the horse. The very gait they perform, IMO, will cause injury. But if you were to ask me to cite you a peer reviewed, university level study to back up my opinion I can’t do it because none exist. So the Trainer’s statement is literally true, if in fact misleading.

G.

[WalkInTheWoods]

Again from that article:
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120616/NEWS21/306160037/Walking-horse-trainers-begin-swab-tests?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News

Independent veterinarians and technicians will perform the tests, with lab results to be reviewed by the Tennessee Walking Show Horse Organization, a newly established group that has helped organize and fund the testing, with results to be further reviewed by an outside attorney.

Why an attorney ? Outside attorney ? Outsider ? Right…

Any trainer that refuses to submit to the testing will not be allowed to enter the competition and will receive a two-week suspension. However, it takes seven to 10 days to get results back from the forensic swabs, so the penalty might be delayed.

Delayed til when ? After show season ?

That newly formed TWSHO group (the foxes) is not the appropriate group to be overseeing testing and results. Buncha good ole boys got together at a show a couple weeks back and started soliciting for money. What gives them the right to be in charge of a testing program ? Doesnt the USDA have oversite of the DQP program ? Would love to see their member roster to compare it to the HPA violation list. I wonder what the USDA thinks about this new developement. I would not trust any veterinarian, technician or attorney hired by this new group. They are paying for the testing program. Just more web tangling and conflict of interest.:mad:

[bayou_bengal]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;6381112]
I am satisfied, based upon my experience, that the creation of a BL horse can’t be done without causing significant long and short term injury to the horse. The very gait they perform, IMO, will cause injury. But if you were to ask me to cite you a peer reviewed, university level study to back up my opinion I can’t do it because none exist. So the Trainer’s statement is literally true, if in fact misleading.

G.[/QUOTE]

This is just SO true, G. Stacks of pads and chains can’t help but cause injury, BUT no real scientific study has ever been done. Wonder why? Money, money, money.

The statement from the trainer’s president is an example of how they (TWH trainers, breeders and show interests) have wormed, wiggled, waggled, and bent the truth for decades.

[WalkInTheWoods]

A friend was over yesterday who has access to a large email distribution list so i was bringing her up to date on the latest BL info. Her husband has a "93 model TWH grandson of Sun’s Delight D who spent his early yrs in TN and went thru 8 owners in TN and KY. She said the hair grows thin on his pasterns and she was somewhat aware of what soring was all about, but not the niddy griddy details. When i told her about stewarding, she burst into tears. After a couple years with them, this horse still goes into checkout mode when put in crossties. He gets a blank look and will not move. Learning about stewarding explained his behaviour.

When they first got him a couple yrs ago, he was so odd acting they decided to hit his reset button and just put him out with the herd for six months. Also his heels were horridly contracted, It has taken a long time to get his heels widened. Their other TWH who recently passed away at 30 had not been a big lick horse. They had gotten this new horse to slowly bond with him as they knew time was ticking away for the old boy who was her husband’s heart horse. I didnt cry, I told i did all my crying years ago, now im just frickin MAD and determined to do any little thing that might matter.

[sunridge1]

[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6381229]
A friend was over yesterday who has access to a large email distribution list so i was bringing her up to date on the latest BL info. Her husband has a "93 model TWH grandson of Sun’s Delight D who spent his early yrs in TN and went thru 8 owners in TN and KY. She said the hair grows thin on his pasterns and she was somewhat aware of what soring was all about, but not the niddy griddy details. When i told her about stewarding, she burst into tears. After a couple years with them, this horse still goes into checkout mode when put in crossties. He gets a blank look and will not move. Learning about stewarding explained his behaviour.

When they first got him a couple yrs ago, he was so odd acting they decided to hit his reset button and just put him out with the herd for six months. Also his heels were horridly contracted, It has taken a long time to get his heels widened. Their other TWH who recently passed away at 30 had not been a big lick horse. They had gotten this new horse to slowly bond with him as they knew time was ticking away for the old boy who was her husband’s heart horse. I didnt cry, I told i did all my crying years ago, now im just frickin MAD and determined to do any little thing that might matter.[/QUOTE]

You know this statement finally made my lightbulb turn on. My TWH stands stock still tied while I’m around him, it’s even hard to get him to move a step back or forward. After 5 years of very gentle handling (I knew he was handled harshly) he still cringes if I move toward him too fast but he NEVER moves a foot. That lower lip just bounces in anxiety making a pitiful popping noise. Just this year he finally let me handle his ears without his eyes rolling back.

He was only 4 when I brought him home. He was originally purchased at a sale (by a friend) in KY. I wonder…

[rmh_rider]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;6381112]
I am satisfied, based upon my experience, that the creation of a BL horse can’t be done without causing significant long and short term injury to the horse. The very gait they perform, IMO, will cause injury. But if you were to ask me to cite you a peer reviewed, university level study to back up my opinion I can’t do it because none exist. So the Trainer’s statement is literally true, if in fact misleading.

G.[/QUOTE]

TOTALLY TRUE G. TOTALLY.

They are messed up mentally and physically. Not sure which is worse. What they may do is short term, but is long term injury and damage. IOW usually the horse can not stay sound, so the horse is retired, early, like 2-3 yrs old. They start them 12 months to 18 months. Promptly show them at 2 yr old.

I hate this for these horses. It is horrible to watch.

[bayou_bengal]

WalkintheWoods and Sunridge 1- The behavior you are describing for the two horses definitely sounds like the way former BL horses who have been stewarded and/or sored act. I am so sorry.

We owned sons and daughters of both Sun’s Delight D and Pride of Midnight, as well as the resulting offspring from our two stallions. I can honestly say that every son or daughter of Sun’s Delight were delights to be around. They had such sweet and gentle dispositions. Some of the PoM horses from time to time could be difficult-- especially those we had gotten AFTER their BL careers were over.

It used to be talked around and about that some trainers really didn’t like horses by PoM because they would “tell on you” if they were sored and didn’t always easily submit to stewarding.

The Sun’s Delight offspring were usually very docile and stoic souls. Trainers had to “do more” to them to get the same BL they could get from a PoM horse, so they probably in general endured more of the soring but less of the stewarding-- if you follow what I am saying.

We had a mare tht was a daughter of Ebony Masterpiece who was pefectly fine unless you tried to put her in cross ties or tried to ride her in a ring-- then she would come unglued. Rather than enter a ring, she would rear up so high that she would fall on her rider. Same behavior if you attempted to put her in cross ties. But she was fine with being tied with a single rope attached to the halter ring inder her chin. She was fine for trail riding or working cattle in the pastures.

It is so sad what so many of these walkers have endured for so long.

[walknsound]

In Shelbyville Times Gazette:
http://www.t-g.com/story/1860582.html

More Licker BS to people who don’t know any better.

[WalkInTheWoods]

[QUOTE=walknsound;6382188]
In Shelbyville Times Gazette:
http://www.t-g.com/story/1860582.html

More Licker BS to people who don’t know any better. :([/QUOTE]

The article mentions 2 horses exhibited but they didnt include a picture of the BL horse. Pretty weak article but Doyle Meadows got his 2¢ in. blech

[aarpaso]

OLE DOYLE is very worried that this is going to put a big hole in the MONEY bucket at the Celebration,just 60+/_ days before the big money making SHOW. He has to do something even if it is just show the flat shod unabused TWH. in western tack and attire.

not many BL folks are going to be gaming for the inspections at the Celebration this yr.they are still waiting for this all to blow over as in the past.

once Jackie the Jerk goes to court in June,and his fate is known than the trainers can start their game plans.if He (Jackie) just get a slap on the wrist,it will be same o same o.
if they throw the book at him. than all the trainers will have to come -up with NEW ways to pass a SORED horse thru DQP.

the USDA also have only 60 + - days to get more teeth in the law to help the Horses that are bein ABUSED.