Fairfax - have you heard of the National Walking Horse Association?
IOW they are already split off from BL.
I have only heard of them…don’t know anything (that is obvious by many of my posts). Just wondering why the plantation, lite shod and others have not refused to enter Celebration as long as BL is there. IF there was a sudden drop from 4000 horses to 750-1000 that would say a lot more than any thing else
The place to go get this sort of deeper info might be the Walking Horse CHat that is linked up above with the “We support BL poster”
I joined that forum once just to try and see what the heck were they thinking. WHile there I was shocked to read several folks posting how to get rid of scars and such on pasterns.
But if you go there and just read - you might find out what you are wanting to know. If you ask questions, well … they will start coming for your IP address.
I do not know if the National Walking Horse Association folks have a forum. So I could not direct you to them.
But Walking Horse CHat is all about the stacks and chains.
i will say it again: NWHA moved north because the DQP process of inspecting horses does not reliably catch the sored horses. So they ran off to OH rather than stay in the cesspool that is TN. Scott McGregor called TN a cesspool, not me. I’m just paraphrasing.
NWHA, if your inspection process is perfect,and catches sored horses reliably…then stay in WH county and have your National show. If you are afraid sored horses are going to get past your inspectors and make fools out of you…and your show secretary doesn’t have time to check horses in AND run off to the DQP to tell him who to check harder than anyone else on the grounds… by all means…head north.
Again…my question is: Why did the plantation, flat shod group just refuse to go to Celebration. If there were 4000 horses and the BL is only 5% by some and 10 by others…losing 3300 would have brought the show to its knees years ago.
I have never met a plantation owner/breeder/exhibitor who did not have a poor opinion of BL…I would have thought there would be a boycott…
There must be some reason the show continues and those who hate BL just look the other way and complain to each other.
No one would be able to threaten the plantation / lite shod group if they refused to enter…so why has that NEVER happened?
Because those who work with BL horses aren’t the only supporters of the BL. I’ve met a few natural TWH show people and follow several gaited forums and there’s a lot more support for the BL than you think. Everyone’s against soring, but a lot of people see nothing wrong with the chains and stacks, even if that’s not how they ride.
BTW, I’m against all of it, even if a horse isn’t sored, severely altering the horse’s movement is harmful to the horse.
[QUOTE=Fairfax;6424176]
Again…my question is: Why did the plantation, flat shod group just refuse to go to Celebration. If there were 4000 horses and the BL is only 5% by some and 10 by others…losing 3300 would have brought the show to its knees years ago.
I have never met a plantation owner/breeder/exhibitor who did not have a poor opinion of BL…I would have thought there would be a boycott…
There must be some reason the show continues and those who hate BL just look the other way and complain to each other.
No one would be able to threaten the plantation / lite shod group if they refused to enter…so why has that NEVER happened?[/QUOTE]
The spin is alive and well. Hard for me to talk in these circles. Not sure why it is brought into this discussion. ANd I am sure the circle talk makes some find solace in their support of not shutting down the stacked and chained horse.
But not so for me.
Simple matter is the stacked and chained walking and racking horse is grotesque. Only two ways to get this gait - you sore them or stack them. And Mr McConnell has proven that yes you can sore a horse and win a WGC right under the nose of the DQP, HPA, APHIS etc etc. And regardless of the “technology” used to detect it - they need not sore the horse at the show cause the “training” and “conditioning” was done at home. ANd as long as they do not scar the - they will continue to get away with this.
Remember McConnell was winning even when suspended.
Now IMO you can to a degree weight a shoe or pad a foot and enhance a gait, a trot etc etc. The mechanics can be dicked with and not necessarily make the gait labored and grotesque. The entire saddlebred and most of the saddle seat industry is based on perfecting this mechanic. This very discussion is in the **FEI rules for the saddlebred. Not sure about the other saddleseat breeds. But for the ASB, when the mechanics of the gait become labored and with effort - they are not tied.
TWH lost sight of this in their effort for higher and higher and deeper and deeper. They do not see thay have crossed a very real and broad line.
[QUOTE=Malda;6424560]
Because those who work with BL horses aren’t the only supporters of the BL. I’ve met a few natural TWH show people and follow several gaited forums and there’s a lot more support for the BL than you think. Everyone’s against soring, but a lot of people see nothing wrong with the chains and stacks, even if that’s not how they ride.
BTW, I’m against all of it, even if a horse isn’t sored, severely altering the horse’s movement is harmful to the horse.[/QUOTE]
The broader support for the BL horse has been the fact since Sports Illustrated ran their first expose’ in the '50s. It’s why the Sore Lick remains viable to this day. It’s also why it’s unlikely to “go away” just because Pepsi and Ford pull out of the Celebration.
The BL is the “tip of an iceberg.” If you go to the Plantation and Lightshod divisions you’ll find just as many sored-up animals as in the Performance Division. Right now the “spotlight” in the BL process, but it’s a symptom, not the disease. The disease is the quest for the Big Lick gait. As long as that gait puts bums in seats (and the other Divisions do not) it won’t go away.
G.
A good read on soring and “those chains” (re: Playboy) -
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6424791]
A good read on soring and “those chains” (re: Playboy) -
http://www.ellislawgrp.com/article11horseprotection.html[/QUOTE]
Thanks for posting. More good exposure.
I an finally getting an understanding. Only a few of the TWH owners/exhibitor/riders make noise about soring. Out of 4000 at a show, maybe 350 don’t like the soring and BL and the others support it by their attendance and entry fees.
So the 25 on this forum who are adamently against BL are actually in the minority by a long shot.
I have dealt with breeders of ASB’s in Tennessee and I can assure you they are not like the trash with homes on wheels MENTALITY that seem to be attracted to the TWH.
I would suggest those trying to get this stopped call the NEW YORK TIMES with documentation of threats against those who try and stop it…foxes in control of the hen house i.e. inspectors not doing their job and maybe even bribery…get them to read the book about the murder…let them really know a seedy side. Who knows…you might get the north to rally on your behalf
And i would suggest that you Fairfax read more and post less. Calling people trailer trash is not productive. People in the industry who appear to support may just feel powerless to effect change. Maybe the sound trainers and exhibitors dont boycott Celebration because that is how they make their living.Maybe a lot of the spectators dont understand the horrors the BL horse endures to perform that “gait”. Maybe they think the horse just looks flashy.
I am not about to try to worry about numbers of supporters inside or outside the industry. The numbers of people inside and outside who recognize abuse when they see it are the ones that will help effect change, not the sheep. And the number of ppl posting in this thread does not represent those that are reading this thread and COTH is not a gaited horse forum anyway.
I restate my point. If the public (which, IMHO, you need behind the anti BL movement-no pun intended) could see how exciting and brillant an un-amplified, BL type, horse could be, it would help end the division. The lack of need of all the trash. The public loves to cheer on their favorites, regardless of the event. The merchants and towns don’t care if the horses are standing on their heads, as long as the people come and spend money. But then again…I takes a GOOD rider to show a horse like that.
[QUOTE=WalkInTheWoods;6424894]
And i would suggest that you Fairfax read more and post less. Calling people trailer trash is not productive. People in the industry who appear to support may just feel powerless to effect change. Maybe the sound trainers and exhibitors dont boycott Celebration because that is how they make their living.Maybe a lot of the spectators dont understand the horrors the BL horse endures to perform that “gait”. Maybe they think the horse just looks flashy.
I am not about to try to worry about numbers of supporters inside or outside the industry. The numbers of people inside and outside who recognize abuse when they see it are the ones that will help effect change, not the sheep. And the number of ppl posting in this thread does not represent those that are reading this thread and COTH is not a gaited horse forum anyway.[/QUOTE]
You really should taking reading comprehension. I said Trailer Trash MENTALITY and I even put it in capitals for you…
My prediction:???::: Nothing much is going to change.
You have a very very small vocal group…here on COTH…a video that many say was terrible…but they are not horse people so out of sight…out of mind…
You make the statement that maybe the others entering Celebration don’t know what soring is all about? You refrain from stating that TWH exhibitors are in it for the glory and the ribbons in ALL divisions…but that is what you must be implying and I have been to other forums and it is all blah blah blah and yap yap yap with a bunch who don’t even show TWH’s saying they are going to boycott Celebration. One actually admitted…(I can’t seem to find it so am still looking) that she had NEVER shown her trail horse TWH.
Gosh…that makes an impact.
I hope you are able to stop the soring but I think the lack of motivation, the lack of putting their money where their mouths are and the lack of desire for true change are going to work against you… I truly hope I am wrong
Fairfax, how you doing??? I do not forsee a big change in the walking horse business. Last night, there was a huge crowd at the Woodbury Show and alot of horses. I watched it off and on with the live feed. Same as always. Lots of people, hooting and hollering, a real festival atmosphere. I predict nothing will change. Trainers have already started rolling in for the Celebration. I just sat and looked at those sweet horses. Such wonderful animals they are.
Whatever, Fairfax. It wont impact you one way or the other up there in Canada will it ? Isnt there stuff up there to worry about ?
AAEP and AVMA count as 2 of the 4 vocals???
Curious - do they stack the TWH up in Canada ???
[QUOTE=hurleycane;6425686]
Curious - do they stack the TWH up in Canada ???[/QUOTE]
After a few Big Licker’s were imported with disasterous results i.e. hoof came off one horse (I don’t think that was related to soring but it was blamed on it) the TWH owners approached the government and Big Lick is not allowed in Canada.
There were classes for the pre-big lick at the Toronto Royal until 1975 and I understand that the stacks and soring were disallowed around that time,
Most Canadians have never seen a big licker
Well, geesh, Leo! You should be lobbying YOUR own government to allow the Big Lick up north, since it is so harmless and all.
That way you can occupy yourself with your own country and leave ours alone.
Sheilah
