My friend sent me an exercise where you turn the shoulders around the inside leg to keep them straight and you avoid using the inside rein to bend them too much to the outside shoulder where they would fall out thru the shoulder. If this happens, you counter bend them back but be prepared with a strong supporting inside leg. This all sounds great except my young horse is ignoring my inside left leg on the track left circle. If I align the shoulders so he cannot run thru his right shoulder he refuses to step to my outside right rein with his left hind leg and he falls in.
I know this is a left leg weakness as it doesn’t want to step under and carry more weight like he does on the right side which is really good.
I tried to leg yield him to the outside rein, but he will not budge unless I stop half halting with my right rein and allow with it but then he either falls out to his right shoulder or he falls in if I counter bend him. So I broke it down further to just leg yielding.
I understand all the principles of leg yielding. Slight weight on inside seatbone to encourage the horse to move away from your seatbone in a leg yield. No leaning of your shoulders to put extra weight on the seatbone because then it encourages the horse to move back to the weight where your shoulders are leaning. Catch the outside quarters with slightly back outside leg. And half halt with your outside rein to restrict the shoulders from moving too much sideways and thru the right shoulder.
Everyone explains what should happen, but no one goes into depth of what does happen. What should you do when things go wrong? Can anyone give me some tips.
The result: if I push hard with my inside leg and make him step over to the outside rein, he runs thru his right shoulders. He is a bully. Really rams thru his right shoulder. And if I half halt hard and get him to stop, he will not cross over with his left leg. He resists leg yielding.
So I either get the leg yielding with run thru right shoulder OR
I get leaning in on the left side and will not move over in a leg yield to the right rein
I would take everything even further back than where you are. On the ground, if you apply pressure with your hand in the same location your leg rests, does he step away from the pressure? I am guessing no, so start there. He needs to understand that pressure where your leg rest means move away from the pressure. Resist the urge to drill him. If you get one solid try, stop for the day, even if that try is only one foot moved away from you. Build from there!
Once he is responsive to this on the ground, get on and on a loose rein, apply pressure with one leg. He should move away from the pressure, and if he doesn’t no big deal, but keep the same pressure and start tapping with the whip until he moves over even the slightest then release all pressure. Your goal is going to be you apply one leg and the horse moves away from the pressure. Don’t drill!!! At the point where he understands what you are asking and complies, you can start to pick up your reins and then actually work on a leg yield.
The more I learn, the more I realize nearly all horses are not trying to be jerks. He doesn’t understand what you are asking and/or it is uncomfortable for him to do what you are asking. Do you stretch him? He could be really tight your problem direction and that is why he can’t do it.
Also, don’t discount it could be something weird you are doing. I had a lesson, and the instructor noticed I was scrunching up my shoulders while lifting my right shoulder even more when I was asking for a leg yield to the right. The result was a very crappy leg yield that I couldn’t figure out why it was so crappy!
Sorry if I represented that the horse is trying to be a jerk. He is the most lovely creature I have ever sat on, but I know he doesn’t fully accept the inside leg to the outside rein and I am trying to figure out how to get him to accept without tension and force. This horse is my unicorn! And I am hoping to train him to the best of my ability in the kindest way possible! I just love him!
Anyway what ways do you recommend stretching him so he doesn’t get tight and tension when I try to teach him a leg yield?
Thanks for your suggestions!
A good starting LY exercise is to start on the second track and just ask for the one step of LY it will take to get back to the track… try it at walk first. Then you can start on the quarter line and do one step LY and two steps straight forward, repeat till you get to the rail. My favorite thing that my instructor has said is to ONLY practice correct movements. If the horse is not correct you are just teaching them the wrong thing, so if the LY becomes incorrect in any way(bulging shoulders or tension) just continue forward. Of course it all got much easier for ‘us’ when I realized that it was my tension and crooked seat(weight and hips) that was confusing my poor horse.
Not accepting and not understanding are 2 different things.
Your horse has no clue what you are asking.
Mostly because you have no clue how to teach him to yield to your aids.
Lessons on paper or the internet won’t be suffisant.
You need real lessons.
My friend sent me an exercise where you turn the shoulders around the inside leg to keep them straight and you avoid using the inside rein to bend them too much to the outside shoulder where they would fall out thru the shoulder. If this happens, you counter bend them back but be prepared with a strong supporting inside leg. This all sounds great
No, it doesn’t sound great at all… it’s actually not clear at all and it’s no wonder your horse, who doesn’t speak our language, doesn’t understand whatever you are saying.
I lesson with a really great trainer, but I like to supplement with exercises on my own to mix it up a bit. We work on this issue every time I ride with her. She has me half halting on the right rein and then pushing him over with my seat to activate the left hind leg. We have worked a little bit on leg yielding but we work more on transitions and staying thru his back properly from trot to canter. I am just looking for more input on how to figure out the leg yields so I can work on other things during my lesson. Like jumping and cavalleti exercises. I have one flat and one jump lesson per week and there is only so much we can work on because my horse tires out quickly when carrying straight. So really just looking for extra ideas on how to get a better leg yield done. Thanks!
If you have a good instructor, take your questions to them and have them sort you out. Much more effective than having us try to interpret your account of a leg yield or shoulder in exercise described to you by someone else.
First, you shouldn’t be working endlessly on leg yields in your lessons (nor in training). A few repetitions/try should be enough per ride. You should have way enough time in your lessons to work on a lot of things.
Working on transitions and keeping the horse through its back is way, way more important that « leg yields ».
Leg yields is all about having the horse through and be clear (and clean) in your transitions.
Pushing with your seat to move the horse sideways is not the way to go. Your horse must yield to your leg… hence the leg yield. Don’t use your seat in a sideway motion, it doesn’t make horses move sideways properly. It will actually just block the movement.
And as with everything new, it takes time to develop the coordination and the muscling needed for a good leg yield. In regular work, a new movement can take between 8 to 15 weeks to master (be confortable doing with the proper muscling to sustain the exercice)
It’s important to be carefull and not tired our horses.No one likes injuries.
It may seem a little boring, but keep doing what your trainer is having you work on. Leg yield will become easy from that hind leg activation and outside rein contact once you have a horse who is straight and able to stay through from the hind end into the contact and fit enough to go around correctly and still have some gas left in the tank. In most cases, once you and your horse understand the general aids, the way to improve a particular movement is to improve the basics. And in the situation you describe (horse falling through the shoulder in a leg yield to the weaker direction and tires quickly) it does sound like there’s a reasonably good chance that fitness and straightness and balance are bigger roadblocks than aids and exercises.
How is your turn on the forehand? If there is a problem with the leg yield it sometimes helps to go back to turn on the forehand and work on getting a response from a smaller leg aid.
This horse is way too nice to drill and make sour! I am very careful. I work on different things every day. But mostly proper transitions going forward into the transition with an elastic hand. And yes it can get boring. So I like to be able to do other things that I would not do by myself when I am at the trainers. When we worked on leg yielding she had me yield over one step then go forward and it wasn’t happening like when you read how to do a leg yield. It ended up taking most of the lesson. So if i can go into another lesson a bit more prepared and understand the mechanics of a correct leg yield and how they can do wrong maybe we can get to the fun stuff before my horse tires. Last time we had to quit because he got tired.
The seat is supposed to be slightly weighted so horse moves away from weight as I understand. That is what I use my seat for. I do use my legs.
his breeder in Germany was the one who gave me the video exercise. She is extremely knowledgeable and has given me many excellent tips because she is so thankful that I contacted her when I imported him to the USA. She had first right of refusal and the other owners did not honor it and she lost track of him and was devastated.
anyway I do have an excellent trainer. But what I was hoping to get is knowledge and fundamentals so that I could be better prepared when we do work on the leg yields and so I can try to practice them a little bit at home. It’s not meant to replace my trainer
also the German breeder told me that legs are for steering and seat is for impulsion and brakes and the hand is gor recycling energy created by seat
I am trying to process all this information. Thanks!
Also I really like hunters and jumpers best but I am dabbling in dressage because my horse has quite a background of dressage in his breeding. His father Lanciano produced a grandson who got I think the bronze in Brazil Dressage. And his mom is by Feiner Stern lines which produced great dressage horses so I am dabbling in dressage now.
Work shouldn’t get boring.
Ask you trainer a working plan.
Trail day, jumping day, hacking day, new stuff day, fun day, in-hand work day, lunging day, etc.
When we worked on leg yielding she had me yield over one step then go forward
Which is the best way to start.
and it wasn’t happening like when you read how to do a leg yield.
Horses don’t read.
It ended up taking most of the lesson.
Which is a shame.
You trainer should varies her exercices and bring you up to that point where the leg yield will flow a little better.
If it is not working, your trainer should not insist, and instead bring you back to previous exercices that will help you and your horse understand the leg yield concept.
So if i can go into another lesson a bit more prepared and understand the mechanics of a correct leg yield and how they can do wrong maybe we can get to the fun stuff before my horse tires.
Lessons are exactly for that, learning. Lessons prepares you to understand the mechanics and give you tools to work on afterward.
In between lessons, you should practice what you know and are able to do properly. To refine your transitions, your working gaits, the throughness, etc.
Your lessons should be fun and give you ideas on what to work and how to work. I give homework to my students.
Last time we had to quit because he got tired.
This shouldn’t happen too often.
You want to quit before your horse get tired, at least for new/harder exercices.
Always finish on easy, relaxing, quiet exercices to reward the horse for having tried and work hard.
It’s unfortunate to quit on a movement/during an exercice that wasn’t well executed.
At least, you’ve decided to quite and not force the movement through when you realized your horse was tired. Good for you.
The seat is supposed to be slightly weighted so horse moves away from weight as I understand. That is what I use my seat for. I do use my legs.
No. Horse don’t move away from your weight.
I think you need more lessons on how to leg yield through specific exercices.
I do have an excellent trainer. But what I was hoping to get is knowledge and fundamentals so that I could be better prepared when we do work on the leg yields and so I can try to practice them a little bit at home. It’s not meant to replace my trainer
I’m glad you think you have an excellent trainer and I think you should wait for her expertise to better help you convey words (written) into real work.
As you have experienced, your general theoric knowledge doesn’t always work because your horse and your skills are specific/personal to the issues you need to fix/work on.
I will still suggest Jac Ballou’s book 101 Dressage exercices that you could work on. It’s well explained and there is a lot great pattern not too complicated for beginners.
How is your leg yield to the left? Your body should be doing the same thing in each direction. Is your horse quick off the leg (in both directions)? Have you asked for the hind leg step-over with your leg, and if no response, done a quick whip-tap “get moving?” How does that go?
alibi_18 I appreciate all your advice. I am sure I am making my trainer sound inadequate, but she actually is very thorough and fantastic. I guess I just got s liitle tired of working thru him bulging out the right side. The video the breeder gave was really instructional because it showed what happens when a horse bulges out the side and how using the inside rein helps aggravate the problem. In order for me to activate his hind inside leg I need to push his over to the rein and that is where I revisited the leg yield. My last lesson Friday he was so straight he jumped around a course extremely well. And I find that alot more fun, but without the flatwork he would be crooked and it would not be as fun. Today he actually was really straight and wonderful and I realized that was because I stretched him out in long and low and then found I could keep my right rein supple and just ask for my canter transitions with my left leg and no tension in the reins or my back and boom he went right into it. So I did ask for leg yield from quarter line and he moved right over straight. This did not happen yesterday! He was great . But I know my journey is not over. I have to deal with the days it feels tense and I feel frustrated. Today was not that day!
He moves over nicely in left leg yield. But it could be that he likes to lean a little on the left shoulder so it’s easy for him to go over there . I do use the dressage whip but It tends to get him annoyed not focused. It’s like he says stop that! And if I apply harder he would tune me out. Its better to keep asking in a gentle way and then he gives much more. He isn’t defiant. He is a very willing horse but I feel force is not the way with him. That creates tension and I lose the elasticity in his gaits. And he is a phenomenal mover and very elastic. Don’t want tension to ruin that!!
The first question should be whether the horse understands what your leg aid means. Does he understand that he should move away from it? You say you can’t leg yield in this direction but what does he do if he’s standing still and you put your leg on (nothing to do with your seat)? Does he move away from it or ignore it?
When riding a LY it is sometimes necessary to use your outside leg as though you were riding straight.
A mild tap on that outside shoulder with the whip, to back up that leg may be necessary, whether or not he likes it.
So turn on the forehand is easy as pie turning to the left with the right leg crossing over. Turn on the forehand to the left is more difficult. That would be the left leg crossing over. This is all a left leg issue. And that was the reason I wanted to work on leg yielding left. On the ground if you push him he will cross beautifully with the right leg pushing his right side, he gets a bit stuck pushing him to the left with his left leg. But when he does cross over he is so athletic. His legs cross over like gumby. He is so darn flexible. Everything about him is flexible! No joke he overtracks at the walk sometimes 4 hoof prints. My trainer says its just hard for him to engage that left hind. And that we are slowly working towards more strength to make it easier. I am just surprised he is having trouble moving over. Yet last night, after I had a bit of a tiff with him on Monday, he moved over beautifully from the quarter line. I will take it slower though, going in small steps over especially on the days he is a bit tough moving sideways. My trainer did teach me that. One step over 3 steps forward. One step over. 3 steps forward and take the whole long side to move over from quarter line. I guess I get impatient especially since its so easy for my older horse who had a hind suspensory and is not flexible in his hind end. He has no where near the reach or the flexibility that my young horse has and he just moves right over straight!
The reason I started this post was because I don’t want to fight and I don’t want to force and so therefore I must be doing something wrong. I appreciate all the suggestions. I think the suggestion of stretching last night really helped because I felt I had an elastic feel without tension and he surprisingly crossed over easily to the left. But this doesn’t always happen.
I will say on the ground he isn’t the best at moving over from pressure from my hand. If I push really hard he gets a bit frantic, until I pet him and ask again gently and reassure him I am not mad at him. Then he crosses beautifully over. But when he is frantic, he just swings his hindquarters away without crossing.
Persistent one-sided training problems are, IME, not usually training problems at all but physical problems. Check chiro, teeth, do a flexion test of the hind legs, and check saddle fit to start.
