Terranova-Lauren Nicholson what happened?

[skydy]

I can definitely see the safety issue the FEI has with the ring bit ,and I can see why the bit wasn’t typically a choice for use in Eventing (until it was by this pony’s rider.) Full cheek snaffles are scary enough with how they can get hung up, a ring bit getting hung up doesn’t bear thinking about.

With the increased twist/turn technicality of Eventing cross country courses I’m surprised that a ring bit was considered. It would be interesting (for me anyway) to see how the pony went in it and to compare with how she went in other bridles. How many times was cross country completed in that bit until the FEI said NO, etc…

It’s too bad to see the infighting and poor sportsmanship when it comes to light.

[OverandOnward]

@Djones

If I can acknowledge and remember that she’s a grown woman with a business independent of her Dad’s, gentle reader, you can too.

Everyone is just like you?

The general public, even the general horse public, is not like you at all. That’s the mass audience they have to consider when they are doing public things for promotional reasons, for attention to their program. It is very different from individuals who care.

[Ottbaxel]

I think Rick might have taken his post down-I can’t find it on the Team Wallace page anymore. Maybe some commenters made some valid points on there and he didn’t like it.

This is straying a bit from the topic though so to get back on track-what I really want to know is what did Caroline do that Lauren didn’t like?

[skydy]

Thanks for answering my question before I asked it. I was wondering if ring bits were used on jump racers or steeplechasers, I’ve never really paid enough attention.

I agree with the sentiment that there are much more severe bitting options out there, but a ring bit just seemed like a weird choice, and perhaps a last resort, for use in Eventing cross country. I could understand if it was only the galloping between fences that was considered, but there are jump combinations that require more finesse.

[Djones]

@OverandOnward

That’s the mass audience they have to consider when they are doing public things for promotional reasons, for attention to their program. It is very different from individuals who care.

Uh, ok.

There’s some mass audience of eventing that puts horses with trainers, backs riders, and sponsors programs? Who knew.

[OverandOnward]

There is a much bigger world out there, that publishes in the media, gets attention to sponsors and reaches people who buy the sponsor’s stuff. The more programs can do to get the attention of people with eyes, who like to watch horse stuff and eventing even if they aren’t part of the eventing insider elite, the more each program can help their sponsors sell stuff. And help their sponsors see that they are worth sponsoring. Building a recognizable brand with a wide reputation is a thing these programs are doing, in these modern times.

[Xctrygirl]

I remember the first time I used it and it was a big lightbulb moment. It really helped on some tough tough horses. On the backside it’s pretty common but I would say that it’s very similar to standing martingales in hunters. It’s on a lot of animals who don’t need it because that’s what everyone did before.

I think it’s more effective as a temporary tool but there’s some better variations on it now.

This one reportedly works better with the horse’s mouth structure. It looks scary but I could see it working on a very tough horse.

https://www.bigdweb.com/winning-tongue-plate-dexter-bit-with-brakes-and-normal-plate?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw782_BhDjARIsABTv_JClLQNy3hDABxTPFZAEokfcD1QSPMKWRVGvp0qmnm5U381Ep3pWEfQaAnvjEALw_wcB

If you’ve never Galloped and breezed horses at top speed, on a difficult to rate horse, you’re not going to 100% understand the value of keeping a larger animal at safe speeds for your health but moreso for the horse’s. Sometimes it helps to have a tool.

It shouldn’t be looked at as the only solution… But many will. But it shouldn’t.

Em

[Bays4days]

I heard from a reliable source CP had her grooms warming up her horses before XC. There.

[MHM]

@Xctrygirl

This one reportedly works better with the horse’s mouth structure. It looks scary but I could see it working on a very tough horse.

https://www.bigdweb.com/winning-tongue-plate-dexter-bit-with-brakes-and-normal-plate?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw782_BhDjARIsABTv_JClLQNy3hDABxTPFZAEokfcD1QSPMKWRVGvp0qmnm5U381Ep3pWEfQaAnvjEALw_wcB

Holy guacamole.

There is a lot going on there.

[skydy]

I’ve never galloped race TBs only field hunter bred TBs which (as you know) are a different animal altogether.

I have no issue with ring bits on racehorses if their people deem them necessary. Safety first on the track and there are fewer instances on the track where a horse could be caught up in that bit.

Having experience with both, you know the difference between the state of mind of a race horse doing its job and the mindset and training necessary for a successful UL Eventer. Two very different situations.

[Bearx2]

Honestly in this day and age with social media being the way it is people don’t know where the next sponsor or owner will come from. That is why smart people are very very careful of what they put on social media. It can take years to get a good reputation and minutes to lose it.

[Arzny]

@skydy

Have you ever seen one used off the track? I haven’t (that doesn’t mean it’s not done just that in my experience I’ve never seen it.) It seems like a weird choice for cross country riding.

Interesting that people are saying the FEI doesn’t allow ring bits. Ellie Fredricks used one on her Upsilon horse at Barbury just this past month. Fairly certain she was in an FEI class

[Xctrygirl]

Oh indeed. VERY different jobs.

Also as a Wofford Disciple I have been mostly snaffles and anti “Strong” bits my entire career. The 3 most severe bits I have ever used:

1. Happy mouth American Gag & an all metal American Gag. I would say I didn’t use them for years on end. More like 6-9 months at one part of life.

https://gallop-store.com/so2915-1-american-gag-bit-for-sliding-horse-single-joint-soyo-happy-mouth-white-silver?variant[131]=40791&variant[92]=14826&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAApNIJW5wFp-FSPDylXKY3jtVhW2cH&gclid=Cj0KCQjw782_BhDjARIsABTv_JCY39_pdi86MSM4AKh5bv2aDS7crXWKWW9c1AzkCj5RA_1ASIloncMaAghaEALw_wcB

2. Tom Thumb Pelham. It had a longer usage, but I did get away Very short shanks on that one.

https://www.farmvet.com/Centaur-Tom-Thumb-Pelham?location=&quantity=1&tack-and-equipment-size=196&CAWELAID=120037530000040088&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADsqH4uoHpHDMLqq380DS2Lguqs8I&gclid=Cj0KCQjw782_BhDjARIsABTv_JB2XnngwAMs3tWwpCo-2U5kgyA0omiMBicTp-YAv4B802LT5HAM5VUaApNxEALw_wcB

3. This is a total technicality but I got a ton of what I needed from Cudo in a Nunn Finer Cartwheel Waterford bit. It’s fantastic and I never used the leverage aspects. (He was annoyed by where his flash strap was hitting and we changed to this and a lever noseband and VOILA… much happier pony.

https://www.doversaddlery.com/waterford-cartwheel-bit/p/X1-010952/?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD_umQ8-eY9fNY0_SHLuFyGDH6VuT&gclid=Cj0KCQjw782_BhDjARIsABTv_JCYNGkw3N8DPcXB3PrhrlZp6IW7C4VMkfmGXq7atz3KYiQZOyLXW9gaAoX_EALw_wcB

Overall I work to find what works for the horse. Thankfully when they’re unhappy it’s easier to stop and try to work it out to why.

Em

[Ottbaxel]

@Bays4days

I heard from a reliable source CP had her grooms warming up her horses before XC.

Interesting, this is not what I expected to hear as the reason. I am not at all familiar with how upper level riders compete so many horses at one show-I’m assuming this is not common, is it strictly against the rules?

[Bays4days]

A groom can walk a horse on a loose rein. That’s it

[OverandOnward]

@Bearx2

It can take years to get a good reputation and minutes to lose it.

That needs to be on a t-shirt. Handed out to some folks at certain horse venues.

[AmmyHour926]

@Bearx2

Rick has turned me off with some of the things he has said on his podcasts, to the point I don’t listen to it anymore . He has definitely given off if you don’t ride at a high level you shouldn’t have an opinion vibes before .

It’s such a shame as they really are the only eventing podcast that is doing event recaps instead of just interviews (although I think MLE also did some Maryland recaps last year?). But some of their takes are just…not it. Never to mind Rick can somehow manage to never get a single fact, name, or score correct. How hard is it to do 30 minutes of research before recording?

[EventerAJ]

Lucinda Green is the source of the “let’s try a ring bit” on xc, in this case. I was at the clinic a few years ago at Majestic Oaks and heard her recommend it to a few riders including Elissa and Briggs.

Lucinda is a big advocate for trying all sorts of bits to find what a horse likes best, and actually brings a collection of bits with her to each clinic so riders may try them. She advised a ring bit for the same reasons Emily mentioned: increased control and rateability, reducing the horse’s locked jaws on the bit, while not being overly harsh or roof of mouth or tongue. Just like some horses go well in a myler combination bit (or other noseband-bit-combo, which may or may not be legal for silly FEI reasons), some horses respond well to the different action of a ring bit. I am perplexed at why it is illegal, because in the grand scheme of things it’s much more humane than a double twisted wire gag or long shank slow twist pelham. Could the ring get caught on something? I mean maybe, but so could full cheeks, giant ring snaffles, even martingales-- much more likely to have a horse catch his jaw playing with a martingale or even get a stud girth carabineer clipped to his shoe. Too often the FEI is a ridiculous solution in search of a problem.

For the record, I’ve watched Couture since she was going prelim and even then it made me hold my breath. This is nothing against small horses or an underdog story…but the mare just doesn’t have huge scope and as a result little room for error. No knock on Briggs, but he isn’t the same experience and skill level as KOC piloting Teddy (who also, FTR, safely banked big tables on occasion…before frangible tables existed). In this modern era of social media wildfire, officials (& rider responsibility!) should be looking out for the overall safety and image of the sport. One BAD accident, that arguably could have been prevented by “see something, say something” could do immense damage to the sport as a whole.

Which circles back to why Lauren Nicholson tactfully posted what she did.

[MHM]

That Waterford bit is interesting. I’ve seen that mouthpiece for years, but not with those rings on the side.

[Old_Mac_Donald]

WTP bits are super gentle (the normal variety, sans dexter ring). They look like a gobful but they are fantastic for horses with tongue issues. Think of them as an early version of the NS Turtle bits. Same principle.

I switched out of one because my horse started leaning on me in it, but I use one on another very tongue-sensitive horse.