Terranova-Lauren Nicholson what happened?

[leighbo009]

@McGurk

I also have a hard time believing that a volunteer at an FEI event, working the start, wouldn’t know you can’t compel riders to go earlier then their assigned time. Every unrecognized and recognized lower level horse trial I’ve been to has been clear on this rule.

Or that if an upper level rider happened to encounter a volunteer who didn’t know the rule, they wouldn’t say “Check with your TD. It’s my decision to go early or not; I want to go at my assigned time.” And that would be the end of it.

I wonder actually though if it was more of:
“hey, you are welcome to go to the start” warmup volunteer tells her. Or “we are running ahead, you will be able to go 10 minutes early if you want”
She thinks okay, sweet I can start early, let me get 1-2 last warmup jumps in and I’ll head over
She heads over a couple minutes early
Starter says no, you can’t go until your start time, this break was built into the schedule to allow [restroom break, volunteer change, score pick up, etc], so you still have 9 minutes before I can let you out of the start box
So then she has to return to the warmup, get her horse ready to go out again & then may end up rushed to start. She can’t keep his blood up for 9 minutes waiting for her start time so she has to let him relax and then try to get his blood back up again.

This was my understanding based on the information that grumpy man gave. So not that she wasn’t allowed to wait until her ride time, but instead wasn’t allowed to go early even though there was a gap in the schedule.

[McGurk]

@leighbo009, That makes more sense, thanks!

[trubandloki]

I would hope that the warm-up ring volunteer would have been notified of things like that in the schedule.

[millerra]

I totally get your point - just replying on the “keeping the blood up”…

I would have, on my low level OTTB the complete opposite problem… If we head to the start box, we had better be leaving soon or we’d have an absolute temper tantrum. No joke. There wouldn’t be going back to the warm up w/ out a meltdown. just sayin’… That whole scenario makes my blood run cold… (and yes, I love my TB; he’s awesome on XC - he just has a wee bit of problem w/ managing his inner dragon)

[enjoytheride]

Agree. Rick and Briggs got dragged in for totally separate issues that had nothing to do with anything Lauren said because this thread has been bananas.

As for CP, it’s entirely possibly for a rider to both have their own moment where they were not very nice to a volunteer, AND have an issue with another rider doing something shady. I heard that CP was accused of putting something in her horse’s mouths to lubricate them/keep them from getting cuts/make foam. I have no idea what, if anything, is true.

[blue_heron]

CP I have heard many stories about being too rough on difficult or tired horses, on the ground and in the saddle, and being rude to officials/volunteers/etc. She sometimes comes off as super entitled and her horses being disposable. I assume she was the one Lauren was complaining about. More generally her complaints might apply to Briggs.

[AmmyHour926]

This thread is covering no less that 75 topics.

[blue_heron]

That’s what happens when people make incredibly vague social media posts.

[rogueknits]

@MNEventer

BTW, I think USEF should also limit the number of classes that HJ and dressage horses are able to be entered in per show.

There are already limits in USEF dressage–horses can’t compete in more than 3 rides per day at 4th level and below and 2 rides per day above 4th level. My Training Level guy is ready for a nap after 2 rides, so if I even attempted a 3rd I’d get pretty lousy scores.

[Baybear]

Perhaps it wasn’t caught by the stewards because one of her grooms was riding/competing his own horse at Terranova as well as another rider who rides w/ CP?

[alwaysforward]

To me this seems the most likely scenario

[alwaysforward]

And one that creates an interesting question of the line between groom and rider/trainer. He’s given clinics himself so could it be argued that he’s not a groom technically?

[OverandOnward]

A don’t-know-them outsider question – why would a rider competing in the same event risk his own elimination by warming up his coach’s horse(s)? Someone is going to know who is entered on that horse.

[trubandloki]

@OverandOnward

Someone is going to know who is entered on that horse.

I can tell you, as a volunteer running a warm-up ring (not this specific warm-up ring), I really have no way of knowing if the person on the horse’s back is the actual rider or someone who stole the horse off the trailer and tacked it up with the number on it.

My list does not include a physical description of the correct rider.

[tagsalong]

Even if they’re passing him off as “not a groom”, no one is allowed to school the horse once competition starts other than the rider.

Specific wording from the rulebook:

"EV111 Restrictions on Schooling

1. It is prohibited, under penalty of Disqualification, for anyone other than the Athlete who will ride the Horse in the Event to ride the Horse after 3 p.m. the day prior to the start of the Horse’s Event.
2. A groom, while mounted, is permitted to walk the Horse or to trot it from one place to another. A groom may also work the Horse in hand or on the lunge."

[enjoytheride]

This makes no sense. This is the rule. It doesn’t matter if he’s another rider or trainer or gives clinics, or is a groom.

"EV111 Restrictions on Schooling

1. It is prohibited, under penalty of Disqualification, for anyone other than the Athlete who will ride the Horse in the Event to ride the Horse after 3 p.m. the day prior to the start of the Horse’s Event.
2. A groom, while mounted, is permitted to walk the Horse or to trot it from one place to another. A groom may also work the Horse in hand or on the lunge."

[Bogey2]

It’s usually not the ring stewards that report this stuff, it’s another trainer or competitor who points it out. I have seen it at dressage shows over the years. Other trainers will also report if horse is in a double bridle but rider is showing lower level.

[alwaysforward]

I’m not saying it makes Sense I was just curious to the rule surrounding that as I haven’t groomed for an event in a while. More of a devils advocate question, I stand behind whatever the ruling is!

[alwaysforward]

Good to know thank you for adding the rule, I Was more so asking in a way as could they claim it’s a gray area. Clearly not.

[Baybear]

I’m sorry but are there not a lot of WS and grooms who also compete their horses? I know of several riders who worked as grooms/assistants for some BNR who also competed their horses. Am I missing something is there a rule now that says grooms/assistants can’t compete their own horses or horses they’ve been given permission to compete? This is sometimes a problem in the H/J world as some compete as amateurs but that’s not usually an issue in eventing.