I can see the extra cost at FEI, but to show Starter at a USEA event it seems too much. Can’t people just follow the rules? It should not be that hard.
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Hid it well? That sounded like vintage Denis. He has always been one to speak his mind. You may not like what he says but you never wonder what he is thinking! People are like horses. They all have their good points and their bad points. Not my favorite person and tetchey to deal with but he has worked long and hard for the eventing community. The competitor should have been sanctioned. The official should have been better trained in handling contentious situations. Everyone wishes Denis owned a bit of diplomacy.
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That sounds like some fancy technology you expect organizations to buy and have for warm-up in three locations (dressage, stadium and cross country).
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This really sounds like a solution in search of a problem. People other than the design designated competitor riding a horse at horse trials is just not a widespread problem. We don’t even know if that’s what happened at TerraNova, and as a rider and volunteer, it’s not something I’ve seen or even heard grumbling about in my area, at least. If this were a common problem then perhaps it would be worth thinking about solutions that required new equipment, But without reports that this is happening with some regularity, I don’t think it’s worth trying to design a solution.
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This sounds a lot like the idea of getting shows to purchase special cameras to put at fences so we don’t need so many volunteers on XC day. A good idea that relies heavily on technology working in some remote locations and on shows footing the bill.
Lack of volunteers is a wider spread problem than the occasional rider who tries to cheat by swapping horses. Why invest millions of dollars to catch a couple bad actors?
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The horses already have a requirement to be microchipped, so at least that expense is already out there.
An RFID bracelet for the competitor could just be incorporated into the bracelet with the safety info (Former Armband info)
Em
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The whole rule around the athlete being the only one to ride the horse was to avoid what hunter shows have become; having a huge divide between the pros and the ammys, with the pro showing the horse in one division and then propping the ammy up on the horse and having it go in another division OR having the pro warm the horse up and have the ammy take the horse into the ring.
Same with the rule about unauthorized assistance. Coaching from the rail is firmly entrenched in hunter/jumper land, and cause for immediate elimination in eventing.
Eventing culture is SO different; ammy event competitors are much more self-sufficient. I don’t think it was ever a significant risk that you’d have a pro warming up or schooling your horse you on the show grounds. Because you’re out on the cross country course by yourself, and you and the horse have got to communicate.
I can see a lower level ammy wanting a pro to warm their horse up for the dressage, getting the horse solidly in the bridle so they could just go in and ride the test, but that’s about it.
I think the effect of the rule at the upper levels is to limit the number of horses one pro can show at one competition. If the groom/whomever is limited to walking and trotting on a loose rein, the competitor HAS to be the one to warm up the horse prior to all three phases. No matter how well organized and run the barn staff is, logistically, that puts a limit on how may horses you can compete.
ETA: punctuation, grammar, clarity
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Then we shall implant the chip in their skin! Lol.
Or just make swapping bracelets a card-able offense. They cost less than $10 if you buy one and I’m sure the FEI could get wholesale prices on them. A scanner is around $40. Hardly the cost of dozens of cameras across XC.
The way I’m thinking about it, the horse and rider chip numbers would be part of the entry information. The organizer could generate and print off the list and provide it to the warm up stewards. Place a steward or volunteer at the entrance to the warm up and require that horse and rider must be scanned before entering into the warm up arena. Total time added: less than a minute. If you leave the warm up arena to go back to the stables, you have to get scanned again when you return. A small step to ensure fair sport.
If a rider/management team can keep track of a FEI passport, they can keep track of a bracelet. I have faith in them.
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Less than $40. https://a.co/d/2WfWtIr And it won’t matter if you’re in the middle of nowhere, it’ll still work.
One thing that I’ve become frustrated with is how reactive the governing bodies are when it comes to horse welfare and rule breaking concerns. They just seem to wait for the next scandal to hit and don’t think about how they could prevent it. Being seen as being proactive might be positive in terms of social license to operate. Not with the hardcore PETA types, of course. But maybe a bit with the general public.
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Is a rider swapping identical horses for different phases that common of a problem to warrant a rule change and mandating all riders wear bracelets with tracking info? That’s not even what supposedly happened to start this thread.
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The problem seems to be someone other than the registered rider warming the horse up that the bracelets are being suggested for.
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it’s just something that was briefly mentioned in passing and as usual has gained a life of it’s own
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No it really isn’t lol. Bracelets are not feasible from a cost, manpower and timing standpoint. Just not a realistic solution to a problem that really isn’t a problem minus a handful of select individuals. People esp at FEIs know when it’s a groom warming up a riders horse for them, it’s just a matter of if you go find a steward when you see it.
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Exactly. This is the real point, imo, behind what might or might not have happened with a rider in warm-up.
Eventing is a fan sport like any other. The people who come to watch FEI divisions tend to know the players, equine and human.
It is a risk for an FEI rider to send someone else into the warm-up ring, riding the horse they are to compete that day. There are knowledgeable bystanders who know the horses and riders, and know or can check the entries (often on their phones), who are going to spot that and report it.
So is this really happening? If so, why are people who know the horses, riders and entries not calling it out at the time?
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That’s what I was thinking. But, I know our riders, I don’t know their horses. If a rider was riding a horse in competition tack but not show apparel. I would likely assume they were schooling their own horse. It wouldn’t be unless I saw the rider and groom change in front of me.
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There’s a difference between speaking one’s mind to show the truth and being diplomatic about it, and another just being an [edit]. He’s the latter. I don’t care if he’s worked for 100 years in the eventing community - refusing to grow as a person [edit] and telling people to “suck it up” when they’re being verbally ABUSED does not give him any excuse to act this way. Screw people who think that just because they “paid their dues” means they get to treat others like [this].
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Not excusing anything. Just thought it amusing anyone thought Denis was ever any other way. A little diplomacy wouldn’t hurt many people…
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If you read the post I was responding to with that comment, they were not talking about a hand held scanner.
I am not discounting your experiences, but I can say that I have worked warm-up steward at more than one venue and none of the venues I have been at have a clear choke point entrance into the warm-up area, and making one by enclosing it would really restrict the usable space.
I really feel like this is a solution with out a problem, that if implemented would be a burden on the volunteers who are already over burdened.
I do laugh at the idea that having to struggle with a few more lists is no big deal.
Even on a nice day having lots of lists is hard to juggle. If only we only had nice days. Some how we end up with lots of days with high winds, nasty rain, etc. But sure, more lists to handle in that is no big deal, right?
Having someone else warming up your horse is a disqualification (this is the problem you are trying to solve, right?), do you think the same people will be worried about the card-able offense of swapping bracelets?
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Hi, I’m the post you responded to!
I did not say anything about size of scanner as it all depends on what you need. I’d actually recommend speaking with the distributor as they have many different versions for many different things. As an example, a local tack store had a problem with incorrect inventory and items walking out the door unpaid. RFID scanners located near the door now alert staff if someone is trying to walk out … just by being near the cash long enough to clear (or not) and passing by the exit door when not cleared.
And as for more lists, actually opposite of what I said … the lists are kept electronically for you, so the human only needs to double check/verify not actually keep the list. All makes life easier, not harder. All requires a learning curve, of course, but costs have significantly dropped and the technology is really neat.
Any of you swiping in and out at work are using this, and likely being tracked on attendance!
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How does this work in an area with no internet and very limited cell coverage?
(sincere question)
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