Terranova-Lauren Nicholson what happened?

[Sticky_Situation]

Does anyone have a problem with trainers having assistants/working students/grooms/whoever warm up horses for them when they’re schooling at home? That seems like a nonissue.

The issue is if someone does it at a competition, where it’s explicitly against the rules, and IMO should stay that way … not that I think a big name upper level professional can’t warm up their own horses, but I don’t want amateur clients to start having professionals schooling their horses before their rides at competitions. But it doesn’t sound like there’s proof anyone did have other people warm up their horses at the competition… just rumors?

[fordtraktor]

Nonissue having the working students/assistants warm up the horses. I was doing that in the 90s as well in a show jumping barn. It was never illegal at HJ shows so I did it at shows too. In fact I often did the jump schools too, especially on the young horses who just needed to go jump around once or twice and see the new fillers in the morning. We’d each take a baby green and get through twice as many horse preps that way. But it was legal, key.

I feel sorry for CP having to do that, but I must say I willingly got back on within a week of childbirth and I’m just a lowly amateur with horses at home. As soon as I could pawn that baby off on Grandma I was back on a horse. I didn’t tell my OB when I got bucked off immediately, either! Note to self, when the young OTTB has had a few months off and your core has been destroyed by a 10 lb human growing inside you, LONGE FIRST.

[Live_Wire]

@endlessclimb

If the goal of the rule is to have it not end up like H/J land where the pro is schooling the horse for the ammy, why is it a problem to have the groom (the ammy) warm the horse up for the pro? It doesn’t go against the actual spirit of the rule

@EventerAJ

The rule is to stop a better rider/trainer/BNR from warming up a horse so that it’s less experienced rider can show it. …to gain a competitive advantage.

The rule is also in place for safety.

[enjoytheride]

Ehhhh. There are several disciplines that would argue that a pro taking the horse around first is safer for a less experienced rider and I don’t disagree with that.

I’m fine with the rules in eventing, and don’t think that there’s enough actual cheating around this to warrant RFID equipment

[add_leg]

@Sticky_Situation

But it doesn’t sound like there’s proof anyone did have other people warm up their horses at the competition… just rumors?

There’s proof. And not the only issue being referred to.

[summerfridays]

To elaborate, she was seen getting overly aggressive with a horse at Terranova because it wouldn’t go through the arches into SJ. She also had grooms riding her horses in violation of FEI rules, and then when told not to, she just had them go elsewhere on the property to ride. She’s been putting something in her horses’ mouths to get them to foam and hide teeth grinding for a while, also not permitted, but they haven’t been able to prove anything.

[Live_Wire]

No, I mean if you aren’t warming your own horse up, you may miss a nuance that’s unusual that leads to a broken leg at fence 19.

[quote=“enjoytheride, post:410, topic:804602”]
I’m fine with the rules in eventing, and don’t think that there’s enough actual cheating around this to warrant RFID equipment [/quote] God I hope that doesn’t become a thing. I considered getting my medical bracelet tattooed because I’ll be damned if I can find the thing half the time.

[Ajierene]

@Mouse_amp_Bay

It’s not actually hard.

This is how packages are moved and tracked. RFID chips. It doesn’t actually require you to keep the list … the list is kept electronically for you as people come within range of scanners and devices. Easier, faster and more accurate.

This is the basic technology used to track inventory in stores, move packages globally and track marathon run times (and monitor access and attendance at work).

Now I’m picturing horses going across a conveyor belt and over those scanners they have at grocery stores! “whiirrr…boop boop…that’ll be $27.95”

“And as for more lists, actually opposite of what I said … the lists are kept electronically for you, so the human only needs to double check/verify not actually keep the list. All makes life easier, not harder. All requires a learning curve, of course, but costs have significantly dropped and the technology is really neat.”

Every place I used to volunteer we had ride times printed and a clipboard, which could be really fun on windy or rainy days. By adding a number to verify to this, you need more space, which means more paper. Often, ride times would be two columns on one page (start top left, end bottom right, next page) so it was easier to track the times without having to flip so many pages. Adding a column would mean not as much room on one page so more paper to blow around, get lost, get wet, etc.

[M1ssmouse]

It’s absolutely toxic praising women back competing so soon after having a baby, I think it’s sad, you never get those early months back, racing around to events with a baby tow, risking your neck xc is not something to be admired.

[Ghazzu]

My take on the time frame for returning to competition after childbirth is that it’s no damned business of anyone’s except the family in question.

[frugalannie]

Never mind. Posted on the wrong thread.

[dmveventer]

That’s a wildly sexist and judgmental statement to make. I assume you have the same issue with new fathers returning to competition? How old does a kid have to be before it becomes “acceptable” for the parent to start taking risks again? Should only childless people be allowed to run x-country?

Her business practices, her treatment of her horses, and how she behaves at competitions may be fair game for discussion on this forum, but her decision on when to go back to work is really no one’s business.

[Marigold]

@dmveventer

Her business practices, her treatment of her horses, and how she behaves at competitions may be fair game for discussion on this forum, but her decision on when to go back to work is really no one’s business.

I don’t think it’s wrong to discuss any unnecessary pressure the sport puts on her, or any other new mother - she discussed pressure to keep the rides and maintain the business she built, but there is also pressure around world ranking points (for no good reason that I know of, they are not frozen in eventing), etc.

The decision around how to manage her family is her own, and no reasonable third party should be butting in on that, but if she or any other new mother made a decision about returning to sport not because they wanted to but because they felt they had to, that’s absolutely something I’d like to discuss (perhaps on another thread) and something the sport needs to address. We are so proud of the level playing field between men and women. We’ve got to walk the walk.

[dmveventer]

That’s fine, but that’s a very different conversation than the comment I was responding to. I don’t see how criticizing her for “risking her neck” or bringing her child to competitions is relevant to making the sport friendlier for working mothers. Those factors would still be there even if she’d taken a year off before going back. That comment was also very specific to women, and if we’re really talking about a level playing field we should be imposing the same rules on new fathers too.

[Not_Your_Janice]

I used to warm up the Grand Prix jumpers when I was a groom/barn manager even though I can barely jump 3’6" on a good day.

[jvanrens]

@M1ssmouse

It’s absolutely toxic praising women back competing so soon after having a baby, I think it’s sad, you never get those early months back, racing around to events with a baby tow, risking your neck xc is not something to be admired.

I just think this needs to be quoted, just because…

And to comment, as much as I love the early months, to be honest, my early memories of them my daughter spent most of them sleeping. I loved them, but if that spring had been nicer that year, I would have been dragging her to the barn so I could get equine time.

[SadieRidingHorses]

@M1ssmouse

It’s absolutely toxic praising women back competing so soon after having a baby, I think it’s sad, you never get those early months back, racing around to events with a baby tow, risking your neck xc is not something to be admired.

@Ghazzu and @dmveventer really summed it up in their responses to this point of view. I’ll just add that it takes a really special kind of outdated, myopic world view to judge a woman’s choices as harshly as this. Many women don’t have the PRIVILEGE to give up their professional lives, but regardless of need, women do not give up the RIGHT to having goals and ambitions when they become mothers. So many better things to do than judge a woman for continuing to strive professionally (or not!) after childbirth.

[junesj68]

thank you!! Finally someone explicitly said what actually happened without beating around the bush

[M1ssmouse]

Lady rider killed this weekend in a warm up in the UK leaving a young baby. People can take all the risks they want, I’m only giving my opinion, and yes it is of course different for men, they do not get pregnant or give birth. I’m married to a pro rider for 30 years, years of injuries and worrying about the worst happening, last year alone one eventer killed and 2 left with life changing injuries. It’s extremely dangerous and that’s a choice they make, I just don’t agree and that’s my prerogative too.

[AMWookey]

Wow this topic has sidetracked big time.

From a non American, non parent perspective… it’s absolute shit that most American woman, whether professional riders or professionals in the work place, have to choose between career or staying home after a child. It should be an absolute right to have at least 6 months home, with zero impact to career or progression, paid, for each parent. It’s mind boggling that a country who puts so much stock into babies and people having babies, can’t do a universal paid maternity or paternity leave.

I know the UK has something for riders that are injured, and I think that other countries should look into something similar so that riders can start families and take that time.