Terranova-Lauren Nicholson what happened?

[dmveventer]

And I’m saying that the “consequences” aren’t as simple as whether the person has kids or not. The suggestion that childless people would only have pets depending on them is ridiculous. There’s no point in litigating which deaths are worse than others and it’s distasteful to even try.

[endlessclimb]

One of them involves another human being, brought into the world by the deceased. It is true that there is a possibility that a top-level rider may have additional human dependents that are not children - very unlikely due to the demands in being that top-level rider, but possible.

No one is saying one death is worse than another. I specifically called that out.

One has more consequences, both for the child and for the people who now have to proxy raise that child.

[OverandOnward]

@endlessclimb

What I’m saying is that some deaths have larger consequences.

What she’s saying is that we, the general public, can’t know what are the consequences to survivors of each death, just based on someone’s demographic profile.

We don’t know the consequences just based on their statistics. We don’t who is dependent on someone for what. As a society we just guess and speculate – and then evaluate without the real information on that person’s life.

Tragic & dramatic real life example – The Gene Hackman death. His 30-years younger wife, his sole caregiver, but someone who has not given birth to her own children nor is she caregiver to any children, died unexpectedly at home of a sudden-onset serious disease. He was too impaired to care for himself or to call for help. He seems to have lived for about 7 days before he also died of starvation and the neglect of not having his caregiver.

Two human lives were lost as a result of one sudden death of disease. But her basic demographics were married woman in her 60’s, no children, financially secure and no longer active in a career.

[OverandOnward]

I’m not sure how this conversation derailed into evaluating people’s relative value in life?

[OverandOnward]

@anonevent

put a stamp on the rider’s hand that matches a stamp on their number etc.

Hands are covered by riding gloves. That tightly glue themselves on with sweat, and fingers gripping reins. It is excruciating to get them off, and even more excruciating to get them on again while they are already sweaty.

The infraction is such a rare occurrence. There is no justification for a massive change in procedure and technology.

The remedy is to directly address those who break the rule – most events, none. All this other song & dance is a completely unnecessary over-reaction.

[cardinale]

@blue_heron

Sorry to be so naive but what would this do? Foam? What does that hide?

Gaping jaws, blue tongues, contact issues, etc.

[blue_heron]

Any educated or discerning eye should be able to see right through that, especially in the dressage where it would matter. Just seems silly.

[Ajierene]

@AMWookey

From a non American, non parent perspective… it’s absolute shit that most American woman, whether professional riders or professionals in the work place, have to choose between career or staying home after a child. It should be an absolute right to have at least 6 months home, with zero impact to career or progression, paid, for each parent. It’s mind boggling that a country who puts so much stock into babies and people having babies, can’t do a universal paid maternity or paternity leave.

From a corporate perspective, this may be statistically correct but not from an athletic perspective. All individuals “must” compete to keep the money rolling in if they are not independently wealthy.

I swear some male equestrian was talking about this related to injury recently, as well as some female UK/EU equestrians related to injury/pregnancy but I can’t find the articles…I did find an interesting one about GB rowing.

GB Rower tells Women’s and Equalities Committee she felt alienated when...

[anonevent]

Yes. And those are two separate issues. Identifying those who break the rule and then having someone in authority addressing the warmup rider and the not-present competitor. As a volunteer, I have not been asked to memorize photographs of each competitor before they enter warmup. Or, are we relying on the other competitors to notice and tattle?

[cardinale]

@blue_heron

Any educated or discerning eye should be able to see right through that, especially in the dressage where it would matter. Just seems silly.

So one would think, but:

https://www.eurodressage.com/2020/03/31/latest-cover-sugar-paste-cream-hide-contact-issues

https://www.eurodressage.com/2021/10/17/second-request-pro-choice-top-hat-gets-no-marshmellow-fluff-be-banned-fei-dressage-rule

[blue_heron]

I know this is a thing with the marshmallow fluff. My question is not do people actually do this. My question is does it actually work to hide anything? Are the riders who tried this actually being rewarded and is it reflected in their scores?

Competitive dressage like in the links you shared isn’t really a great comparison because contact issues aren’t being marked down as they should be to begin with. The horses with the fluff on the bits/lips had busy mouths and tension in the body and neck which is not going to be disguised with some simple foam. So that is a very very small part of the whole picture.

I’m really not arguing with you. I’m arguing Caroline’s supposed logic. At least the horses might like some marshmallow fluff. But dish soap??

[OverandOnward]

@anonevent

Yes. And those are two separate issues. Identifying those who break the rule and then having someone in authority addressing the warmup rider and the not-present competitor. As a volunteer, I have not been asked to memorize photographs of each competitor before they enter warmup. Or, are we relying on the other competitors to notice and tattle?

What are you talking about? As a warm-up volunteer, you don’t have to identify anything but the competitor number.

The warm-up volunteer has no duty to verify who is on what horse, that they are entered properly in the competition – this is some imaginary scenario to complain about.

It is an extremely rare occurence that someone who shouldn’t be on a horse, is on a horse, at a horse trials or event. Most venues, it doesn’t happen at all.

We are not hunting infractions, here. Some people are making mountains out of something even lower than a molehill.

There is ZERO duty by a warm-up volunteer to police this. ZERO. It can happen right in front of them, and it isn’t their job to know – they have no way of knowing, anyway.

If someone other than the warm-up volunteer happens to notice and reports to the TD, the TD can proceed from there. Warm-up volunteer not involved.

It’s time to drop imagining all of these fixes for a warm-up volunteer to police for a wrong person riding wrong horse in warm-up. That is NOT part of the warm-up volunteer’s job. They are given no way to know, it isn’t expected.

Unless someone happens to tell them to use their radio to call the TD about it, in which case all the volunteer does is take about 30 seconds to pass along the message to the TD to talk to the reporting person. It then becomes the TD’s problem to assess and fix, and the volunteer is not involved.

Of course the people who just like to yammer on about nothing can carry on.

[Xctrygirl]

@summerfridays

To elaborate, she was seen getting overly aggressive with a horse at Terranova because it wouldn’t go through the arches into SJ. She also had grooms riding her horses in violation of FEI rules, and then when told not to, she just had them go elsewhere on the property to ride. She’s been putting something in her horses’ mouths to get them to foam and hide teeth grinding for a while, also not permitted, but they haven’t been able to prove anything.

Hopefully I am not judged too harshly because I do not, at this point, know if the “She” in this is LN, CP or who???

I am a victim of the overly ADHD/numerous tangents.

Em

[enjoytheride]

CP is the person described here.

[Xctrygirl]

Thanks.

[trubandloki]

@OverandOnward

What are you talking about? As a warm-up volunteer, you don’t have to identify anything but the competitor number.

Have you not read the thread? Did you not see what post this poster was responding to?

[MNEventer]

@enjoytheride

The rumor is she’s using dish soap in the horses mouths

[MNEventer]

@summerfridays

To elaborate, she was seen getting overly aggressive with a horse at Terranova because it wouldn’t go through the arches into SJ. She also had grooms riding her horses in violation of FEI rules, and then when told not to, she just had them go elsewhere on the property to ride. She’s been putting something in her horses’ mouths to get them to foam and hide teeth grinding for a while, also not permitted, but they haven’t been able to prove anything.

Dang, those are serious issues. Can riders warm up in non-designated areas? I know there are a lot of rules about stabling and who can be in the stables, but I’m not sure about the rules regarding warm up areas.

[OverandOnward]

She was responding to my post.

I’ve absolutely read the thread. And I have been an eventing warm-up volunteer many times. For many years. As well as other involvement in eventing.

[Annie10]

As far as burthun ‘ babies and who gets what benefits and who should or shouldn’t stay home, whatever.everyone has their own opinion about all of it. Fine.
As for me, each time somebody posts about going back on a horse within a couple of weeks I cringe and go ooooooh. I can’t even imagine sitting down comfortably much less riding a horse AND eventing. Gah.