My understanding is that these are two different situations
But I could see where if you don’t believe your discussions are warranted, but another party, especially one that may be “in the big leagues” isn’t being spoken to at all it would be deemed even more unfair.
I think they must be two separate instances-I am thinking someone made comments about Corture seeming dangerous flying around at the speed she does over those big fences. Then Rick’s reply to Lauren’s post was supportive of what she said but his agreement derives from a different experience, not Lauren’s.
Yes from what I’ve heard Caroline Pamukcu is well known from problematic horse welfare and other issues and is most likely the person Lauren is referencing here
USEF did not have jurisdiction over Andrew McConnon because the reported misconduct did not occur at a competition. That’s been stated repeatedly on the threads discussing him. USEF has since changed that rule.
Well while we’re on the topic- and he was mentioned already up thread…
More vagueness
Edit for spelling
Here is a response to this post in a fb group, a reminder that there are always multiple viewpoints to consider. Maybe it’s not always the officials?
Does anyone know why Caroline received a TE at TerraNova on HSH Double Sixteen? This was in the 4*. I saw the round on the livestream and didn’t see any obvious issues. The commentators were confused when they saw the TE pop up in the scoring. They said they’d try to find out what happened but it was never brought up again on the livestream.
This is the big catch 22 when it comes to horse welfare in eventing . How many times have people with “nothing to lose “ been told their voices and opinions don’t matter because they don’t ride at the FEI levels? I can understand why someone like LN has to follow the FEI media policy but expecting a lower level rider or a non rider to call out and fix FEI eventing is a bit unrealistic.
Her TE happened at fence 23 C, there were two house options, only one for the 4*? wondering if she jumped the wrong one? Just speculating.
Hi!! I was there running XC control. CP on HSH double sixteen took a C element of the sunken road that was not flagged for their division therefore receiving a TE
Thank you for explaining!
Something I’ve learned working up close with the horses and riders the past few years is how much in-fighting there is at the top.
Many years ago when Max Corcoran became USEA president, she alluded to that. Saying top eventers don’t have the community and camradarie that jumpers like her husband have. Which blew my mind, because my experience had always been the exact opposite.
But now being in the trenches more in unaffiliated positions, I see what she was talking about. It gets a little high school-esque at times. There are definite cliques. There are loners. There are social butterflies who move between the cliques with ease. There are people who don’t give a darn about the juvenile antics, then there are people who seem to live for them.
I’m not saying this specifically about Lauren or Rick. I’m saying this because when situations happen like the one this thread is about, I try to ask myself, “what’s the real issue?” Because social media always amplifies the high school antics.
I saw two major, legitimate welfare issues at advanced last season with my own eyes. The kind of welfare issues that show the true character of the individual, not just a mistake or “heat of the moment” kind of thing. If I’ve seen it, undoubtedly others have too. Yet where’s the public censure for those riders? There isn’t any. I don’t say this to create more confusion and speculation, but social media is not always an accurate reflection of the real problems.
The amateurs, low-level riders, spectators, etc., that LN may be hoping will speak up, don’t have to call out the FEI.
All they have to do is post publicly, somewhere, “this is what I saw and heard”. They don’t have to reference any organization. They don’t have to call for any action. Simply serve as a witness to what happened.
Many people are reluctant to do that in public for their own reasons. But maybe someone will, if they know that a noted rider will notice and appreciate it.
I’ve seen this comment a couple of times on this thread. If the big names cower before the FEI then how can things improve? Like Rayers I think it is long past time to blow up the FEI and the USEF/USEA. An organization that fears competitors comments is not working in the best interests of the sport. Sooner or later the riders in eventing are going to have to stand up and say, no more FEI, IOC or USEA/USEF. Right now, I see the FEI and IOC really dragging the sport down.
I think that’s easy to say when it’s not your job.
That’s not a legitimate way to deal with an issue by an ULR. They have channels they can use. Social media vaguebooking and expecting spectators to post their witness statements is as roundabout and un-actionable as you can get.
I don’t know any if these players. But Lauren has had the backing of one of the sport’s richest owners for a long time. One that sponsors Bromont, Badminton, and other events. I imagine there is clout available to her that isn’t available to the majority of us.
@DogWithBigEars that comment does kind of make a good point…I’ll admit I am always a little bit nervous watching them go, and their record hasn’t been the greatest lately. But it could just be that a small horse needs to move those legs real fast to make the time, so it looks dangerously fast when it’s not? I certainly can’t say I’ve evented a pony over big jumps lol.
I thought it was a valid point as well. If nothing else, it gives a different perspective to consider. I have watched the pair on numerous occasions both in person and on livestream and there have been many occasions where I gasped, and not in a good way.
I’m not a high level eventer or that knowledgeable but I’ve watched a lot of eventing in the past two years educating myself, and that pair always makes me gasp. They barely make the time and that pony is moving as fast as it’s little legs can go. Ponies stride just isn’t long enough.
In my mind they are pushing the pony to the max and not leaving any room for error, and errors happen. The officials are correct to say something in. They probably could have communicated it better.
I agree-I’ve had many instances where I’ve gasped as well, not just cross country but the showjumping too. I should go back and watch videos of Teddy and Karen, since he was also quite small. I wonder if they look a whole lot different than this pair does going around courses-although I don’t know the height difference between Briggs and Karen and I’m sure that makes a big difference too.
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