Is there an unwritten rule as to when and when not to use them?
I haven’t used them yet but when driving the low e/e cart, the lines slip over and become annoying. Those terrets would keep them straight a lot closer to me.
If I began using these terrets, in what way would that affect my rein handling and what the horse feels?
Pros? Cons?
Thanks!
Yip
In my personal experience, they make me feel ‘closed’ in moreso…I know many riders love them but I just feel like in case of an emergency, if i really needed to get my carriage turned back on itself i woudn’t be able to open my hands enough and have a more direct line. However, I drive in profession and not for pleasure, so I cannot speak at all as how it fares in the show ring, or with lighter boned horses, as I drive Percherons. However, I hate the slipping too…so I just leave the rings hanging, and lay the reins on the inside of them, at the walk it seems to ‘hold them in’ enough that I’m not flipping the reins every 20 seconds, if that makes sense.
There are some hooks, that can be attached to the hip strap, that will catch sliding reins. Small, not more than an inch long and bent, so only stick out about 1/2 inch.
I prefer the rein rings on their own strap, on top of the hip strap, when you have those low seated vehicles. We always call them rump rings, fairly common for casual pleasure driving and the Amish folks whom we have seen driving.
I am going to disagree with irkenequine, that rump rings don’t allow you to “open” the reins. With Driving reins going thru the saddle terrets, you truly can’t “open the reins” like a ridden horse anyway. Your hands can go sideways, further apart from your other hand so reins are split, but it really doesn’t do anything for the horse! If you feel the need to split the reins wide, those hooks on breeching hanger strap will allow this better then rump rings.
I do think using rump rings will cause more drag in the rein, slows horse reaction to rein signals. This is a friction thing, reins probably laying on rump and down to your hands. Lots of drag with all that touching on horse. Not much difference, just fractional, but a bit so don’t punish him for slower responses. Might change the feel to him also, again not much but some. Reins resting on the hooks also will have some extra drag, so you add that into your thinking.
I have to say that having the rump rings or hooks on suspender strap of breeching, DOES keep you from constant fussing with droopy reins, tired hands up over your head for the level line. Little to no chance of reins getting snagged under a strap end as they fall even with the shaft and breeching suspender ends. For long drives, an all-day driver/user of the horse, folks who often drive with little contact anyway, either item would be very helpful with the low seat vehicle.
I would not have either item on my equine for any kind of showing or competitions.
Here is a photo of the rein hook, but not installed on the strap. Hook end is up, with base vertical installed on the harness.
http://www.iowavalleycarriage.com/harness_hardware.php
We made our own rump rings when we wanted some. Two large rings, 3" from the tack store, two conway buckles like are seen on inexpensive Western reins and a leather strap like an old Western rein about 12-15 inches long. You punch each end of the strap so you can put the ring on and fold the strap end to put in the conway buckle. Put one ring on, do up the strap and conway buckle. Run the other end thru the backstrap where suspender hangs down. Put the strap with ring on top of the suspender strap, then do up the other end with ring and conway buckle fastened. Pretty simple, inexpensive, easy on or off.
Big rings are a MUST so reins slide easily. You don’t want reins that might bind up in rings with a twist, splice or if they are wide, heavy leather.
Both these items are only for Single driving horses, not for Multiple horse hitches.
I have rings on the hipstrap of my single harness, much like Goodhors described. I find them useful. I wouldn’t go in the show ring with them on but I can’t think of any other reason I would take mine off.
Mine are on their own strap mounted on top of the hip straps. I don’t have to use the rings, but I don’t think that assembly will come off. I’ll have to look again for sure.
The entire unit moves side to side. I think that’s what’s snagging my lines when I drive my low e/e cart.
I just feel like in case of an emergency, if i really needed to get my carriage turned back on itself i woudn’t be able to open my hands enough and have a more direct line.
I understand perfectly what you’re saying because I thought the same thing - but w/o ever trying it in real life. Using the rump rings would inhibit that wide movement.
BUT, on the other hand, is it possible you actually get more leverage, quicker, with a lot less hand movement by using the rings? The line would hit the rump ring long before it would hit the saddle terret. I’m wondering if you’d actually get your turn/pivot that much quicker with less hand movement.
I like the hooks and think that is a good cure for rein slippage, but don’t understand just where you mount them. Help??
I should have stated that this is just pleasure driving so far. I hold both lines in my left hand with my whip and right line in my right hand, very close to the left hand. Since I’m not very skilled yet, my reaction times might be slower and every second counts in a pinch. I don’t want to use the rump rings if it will make my reaction time (eye/hand/horse) slower. I am hoping it might even make it faster and would take away an annoyance of slipping lines.
I haven’t tried using them yet because I don’t want to get accustomed to something that is unwise for me at this stage. I figure I’m a blank slate right now and an trying to learn now what I will want become a habit. Breaking bad habits is harder than learning well in the first place.
Yip
With light horse harness, the reins run through the rings in the saddle. The need for something on the hip tends to be more minimal. I find I don’t need/want/use them on my buggy harness.
With most draft horse harness (and that includes some halfie/Welsh show hitch or work harness types), there are no rings on the saddle to run the reins through. In this instance, the rein keepers (the loop kind) are invaluable.
Also, if your cart or carriage is a little low and so you are sitting lower than you might want it (sometimes we have the horse and the vehicle that we have for the time being), rein keepers can help keep those reins up better for you. Nothing wrong with using them, if they help you drive in my opinion, just not in the show ring.
I also agree, with Good hors. It doesn’t matter what you do with your hands, in terms of spreading them, they still run through the rings at the collar and it won’t change the pressure on the bit. Most experienced drivers rarely move their hands around out to the side: it is a sign of a person who either hasn’t had lessons/been properly taught and hasn’t thought about it much or is green to driving. Also, when your hands are out to the sides, it is hard to them move back to “neutral” position in a hurry. Wasted effort and one that causes a lag in response time.
If your left hand is in your passenger’s lap whenever your turn to the left, it is time to rethink your driving strategies!
I’ve never had them and never felt the need to have them.
I use them in my woods cart which is very low–but with my marathon carriage or high wheeled road cart, nope.
I need them especially in the summer when the bugs are bad–Junior will grab the reins with his tail and keep them. A little disconcerning when I am flying down the trail!!!
“Most experienced drivers rarely move their hands around out to the side: it is a sign of a person who either hasn’t had lessons/been properly taught and hasn’t thought about it much or is green to driving. Also, when your hands are out to the sides, it is hard to them move back to “neutral” position in a hurry. Wasted effort and one that causes a lag in response time.”
Well I have to say I am an experienced driver, but I am a misnomer as I drive amish trained ‘true work horses’ (I mean that in no way to demean any other carriage horse here…I use it in the ‘good ol farm horse’ sense) that beg for a giant hunk of a rein loop, and are also required to pull a 16+ person carriage that runs about 40 feet long 
When I’m U turning, I have to open my hand as the horse ends up completely parallel to me, facing the opposite direction, given the carriage’s turning radius. If I were to use the hip loops not only would my reins be a funky V shape, but it would actually drag on the hip straps.
However I am definitely not within any sort of classical carriage driving or competition, so I know I am out of the norm here. But I completely understand what you’re saying…if I were driving a horse in a ‘true’ competition sense where I was keeping constant rein contact, much like undersaddle, opening up your hands would be just as much of a flaw in the carriage as it would be under saddle. I just can only speak from the experience I have
[QUOTE=irkenequine;4600739
Well I have to say I am an experienced driver, but I am a misnomer as I drive amish trained ‘true work horses’ (I mean that in no way to demean any other carriage horse here…I use it in the ‘good ol farm horse’ sense) that beg for a giant hunk of a rein loop, and are also required to pull a 16+ person carriage that runs about 40 feet long When I’m U turning, I have to open my hand as the horse ends up completely parallel to me, facing the opposite direction, given the carriage’s turning radius. If I were to use the hip loops not only would my reins be a funky V shape, but it would actually drag on the hip straps.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for making your vehicle and driving needs more clear. I can now see how rump rings would not be at all helpful in your situation. And the rump rings could actually make your situation hazardous, because of the extreme bend when turning and making reins take such a poor configuration to your hands.
I would call your setup out of the norm that most of us Pleasure drivers deal with. Thank you for pointing out your reasons for not using them. No item can work for everyone!
Definitely–and I have enjoyed visiting this forum and realizing there are SO many people that do this for pleasure actively…I am learning more and more about carriages as a sport and less as an industry. I’ve already learned more than a few tips.
…I use it in the ‘good ol farm horse’ sense) that beg for a giant hunk of a rein loop, and are also required to pull a 16+ person carriage that runs about 40 feet long
While in Charleston, SC last summer, I went on 2 of those type carriage rides. One of the drivers did a U-turn on a narrow street just as you describe, with mules parallel and going in the opposite direction of the carriage. I was stunned that this maneuver actually worked and the carriage did indeed follow the mules.
The driver wasn’t even particularly skilled and he constantly faced us in the carriage and paid no attention to the mules’ antics. He was a certified tour guide who was taught to drive when he landed the carriage tour job. He (or the mules) got the job done though, including that impressive U-turn on a very narrow city street.
Yip
[QUOTE=Yip;4601639]
While in Charleston, SC last summer, I went on 2 of those type carriage rides. One of the drivers did a U-turn on a narrow street just as you describe, with mules parallel and going in the opposite direction of the carriage. I was stunned that this maneuver actually worked and the carriage did indeed follow the mules.
The driver wasn’t even particularly skilled and he constantly faced us in the carriage and paid no attention to the mules’ antics. He was a certified tour guide who was taught to drive when he landed the carriage tour job. He (or the mules) got the job done though, including that impressive U-turn on a very narrow city street.
Yip[/QUOTE]
With a fifth wheel and a team, it is actually pretty easy to fan the team but it would not be possible to use rein keepers with a team anyway! Only singles.
With a single horse, one could not do this but must get the horse to step (shafts are fixed to the side). Most single horses will learn to 360 around a cart pretty easily.
Of course, the Priefert Percheron Hitch…does it with such style.
I love watching them.
[QUOTE=Cielo Azure;4601736]
With a fifth wheel and a team, it is actually pretty easy to fan the team but it would not be possible to use rein keepers with a team anyway! Only singles.
With a single horse, one could not do this but must get the horse to step (shafts are fixed to the side). Most single horses will learn to 360 around a cart pretty easily.[/QUOTE]
If you are talking about fifth wheels and a carriage, a driver can turna single horse in that same space. Most marathon carriages will turn more than 90 degrees with their undercut decks and fifth wheel. I know mine does.
Granted a single horse with a cart might if the length of the horse and shafts weren;t overly long. My short backed arab on my easy entry cart can pivot on one wheel in a space about 12 feet.
I’m actually a carriage driver in South Carolina, but in Columbia-- though at meetings I have met many of the Charleston drivers. Our difference is that we are privately owned and local; I am a riding instructor where the Percherons are boarded so am much more involved in their upkeep, tacking and untacking, maintenance, etc. I can’t say I am a 100% advocate in all commercial carriage businesses, but our horses live out, work lightly, and have it good, so I’m happy to be involved.
We have a smaller, 4 person carriage, but like the other I sit up above the horse and it too has a 5th wheel so the turning radius is about the same (actually not QUITE as good as the larger carriage). I can’t imagine turning a carriage with fixed shafts…sounds a little daunting!
Jill, and all, how do you cue for the team to sidepass into a pivot?
What keeps them from just turning with no shafts to serve as boundaries and force a sidepass?
Yip
[QUOTE=Yip;4602767]
Jill, and all, how do you cue for the team to sidepass into a pivot?
What keeps them from just turning with no shafts to serve as boundaries and force a sidepass?
Yip[/QUOTE]
I use the words step/gee or step/haw in combo. If I am driving a team, and I need a single horse to step in line or step over more -I put their name in front of the command. When I mean both, I will sometimes add “mares” in front of the command.
With a team, there is a pole (tongue) -which acts as a boundry. If a green team (pair) is splitting in the back when turning, I will tie the britchens together (2 foot of slack) with twine until they learn to work together.
To train, I just start small. I hold them back (sometimes use the verbal command too -whoa) and ask for the words gee or haw. I work to just get a step or two -sidepassing. I use the word “step” to mean a “bit more.” So, I will start adding that in.
I use half halts on one rein and a very light touch to turn. I use half halts on both reins to reinforce whoa -if they start moving forward. Sometimes, they will want to back -then you have to encourage them to “step up.” If the horse just isn’t getting it, I might gently use the whip to act as an aid to the shoulder or barrel.
I like to drive off the farm and when I turn around to go home or to follow another horse, they learn to turn around on the wheel VERY quickly. So, I use the turning around to go somewhere where they want to go as a “training opportunity.” Hair pin turns are another opportunity to train.
It really isn’t worth watching, but in this video -I am driving a green horse and about the third of the way through -there is a very tight switch back (1:25 min in). You can see my hands don’t move much, even though I am asking for a 90 degree turn on one wheel. It is hard to see though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rw31PgxG6o
I am using rein keepers on this harness, as I sit lower in the meadowbroke than I like and this is a typical draft harness that does not have rein holders on the saddle.
This is just how I train for it, but being consistent, having commands that are the same each time, being creative when they get blocked by trying new ways (such as asking for a turn on one wheel when they want to go somewhere in the general direction of where you are cueing them to turn) and being confident really helps. Also don’t stress them out by asking for too much all at once. And finally, always end on a good note -even if it is just a single step in the right direction.
Yip, I use a commmand " left around" or “git around” for instance. My horses know this means to perform a pivot. That and use of a whip to tickle to ask for the turn to start.
The more I repeat the command and more intense, the tighter turn I get.
I use a littl rein, not much to keep their head from cranking around.
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