Do you think that the reason the flights were all so empty is because the terrorists themselves had booked most of the seats to ensure that they had less people to deal with? 
Whenever I have flown East to West or West to East they are begging for someone to give up their seat. In other words the flights are packed.
But the God they follow is not Allah anymore than the zealots in the Branch Dividians or the poor souls who went to Jonestown were following Jesus.
I do not blame Allah for their crimes, they do not follow the Koran. Mohammed accepted Moses and Jesus and Abraham so he would never approve them exterminating the children of Abraham in the name of Allah.
Interesting theory. I too was wondering how many of the “passenger list” were truly passengers. And thought it odd those early morning flights didn’t have a bigger load.
But then again with the 3 hr time difference maybe most East to West travelers don’t leave that early. Been too long since I jet setted any.
“The older I get, the better I used to be, but who the heck cares!”
I was shocked today when I heard mention that there was a possibility some “major airlines” may have to consider declaring bankruptcy due to this disaster.
Excuse me, it is a mess, there will be a ton of liability issues here. But what other industry or business that looses “a week of revenue” would have to call it quits?
Am I minimizing the damage here? I know it is devastating and I can forsee long range loss of loads and revenue. But if they were that close to the red line of doom, should the government be looking to bail them out? I really haven’t a clue to the answer.
Any other thoughts?
And this is from one who’s bread is literally buttered by the airline industry. Yikes.
“The older I get, the better I used to be, but who the heck cares!”
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Does anyone know if they were scheduled non stop flights?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am a corporate travel agent and we had to check to see if we had any clients on those flights-fortunately, we did not. We did, however, have 4 clients who stayed at the Marriott WTC on Monday night, but they called us around 11am Tues. to tell us they were okay.
Yes, those were scheduled flights that operate every day. To answer the no-show question, they will only delay departure if you check luggage but do not get on the plane. If you no-show within 20 min. of the scheduled departure and do not check bags, they just give your seat away.
Bumpkin,
Your thought is very interesting. It raises the questiton of whether or not the bombers had a heart. I wonder? How on earth could they have lived amongst us for so long and not met or interacted with numerous Americans who were kind, helpful and productive? I am amazed that none of them balked at the insanity of their planned actions. Why didn’t anyone in their vast network squeel when the lights went on? Were their families threatened if they didn’t perform? Were the bombers blackmailed into their actions? Your question makes me wonder.
As for binladen’s inspiration: I think he is just another prideful son of a rich man who wants to rule the world. Sounds familiar doesn’t it? I think the priveldged boys have met their matches.
Pride against pride in the name of relgion.
I HAVEN’T been on any flight lately with empty seats. I recently flew from Atlanta to Jacksonville on a 12:30AM flight on a 767 that didn’t have an empty seat. Jacksonville is a small market, especially that late at night.
I hate to say this, but their plan was unbelievably brilliant and so TRAGIC. I also can’t believe that the hijackers could live among us (as neighbors, students, shoppers, etc) for months and still hate us so much to want to kill us. What were they thinking while they were sitting at the gate and gazing at all the passengers that they were going to sacrifice? I cannot imagine that a human being can be so hateful and callus.
I’m not sure the loads were of paramount concern. I think the fuel capacity was the key, as mentioned. Long distance flight, few stops to refuel, right out of departing airport.
But loads are easy info to come by. I have known my husband to call the airlines and simply ask, “What is your load?” They have never hesitated to tell him exactly. That way he could judge whether or not he had a chance of getting a jump seat or not. If the flight was booked or overbooked he would pick another flight or airline.
Doesn’t it really start sounding “glamourous” being in the airline industry? Can you imagine knowing you HAVE to be at work to FLY the airplane, but are not sure you have a RIDE. It was real intriguing when his trips started in Buffalo, NY and we live in Yuma, AZ. Get a map take a peek. In the winter he would have to start a day early (unpaid) just to be sure he wouldn’t get bumped by weather or loads. And by the time he got home at the end of the week, well he lost a day just recuperating.
Oh look at me I am starting to sound like some kind of whiner. But I think there is a misnomer regarding the industry. I’m sure people think, “Well why not just buy a ticket to work?”
Here is the big misnomer, my husband, as well as a lot of pilots. are not in the 6 digit income level of the flight industry. Not exactly feasible. And yet what we have seen this past week are just some of the risks they take.
Don’t get me started on the mechanical soundness of what is flying 30,000 feet over our heads daily, or the quality of the crews that are being allowed in the cockpit. We don’t have that much time. And you probably don’t want to know.
Just my little rant, thanks again for listening.
But now would probably be the safest time to fly, so don’t let that get in your way.
“The older I get, the better I used to be, but who the heck cares!”
I wondered the same thing. I’ve taken many cross country flights out of Dulles and they’ve rarely more than one or two empty seats.
What’s especially terrifying to me is that these terrorists knew us well, Yes, they were madmen, but they were organized and they knew their enemy. They knew the targets to hit that would cause maximum impact, they knew how to circumvent our security system, and they knew when to hit us (during the work week, during working hours). How could they take the time to learn so much about us and still hate us so. How can you look at someone sitting next to you, vital, alive, and most likely starting a business trip or vacation, and think “I’m going to wipe you off the face of the earth.” Chilling.
I know, I know Catuskate. It’s really hard to feel sorry for an industry that stood infront of Congress even before the Mayor of New York City had had a chance to outline relief efforts with their hands out asking for financial assistance.
Disgusting.
BTW - I had no idea about you & your husband’s life. Thanks for sharing.
InWhyCee - yes, they were one way tickets (confirmed) and even worse - they paid in cash.
They knew the planes would not be at full capacity…
They knew the flights were going straight to Calif, and thus had a full tank of gas…
They waited until people were at work for attack #1…
They waited until the world was watching for attack #2…
I was more intrigued with the seating arrangement on the plane. The terrorists were scattered about the plane in a well thought out fashoin, as to be of maximum efficiency. Two of them were in the row closest to the cockpit, then further back a few more, then further back a few more etc…
The only thing I pointed out was an obvious lack in their “intelligence” (and I do mean both their IQ AND in their information gathering). Reports indicate that the failed attack that crashed in PA was bound for either Camp David, The White House, or Air Force One. Well, at the time of all of the attacks, the president was at an elementary school in Florida. They obviously had NO idea where he was.
It bothers me so much that they attacked US…innocent people…not with military arms…but with our own innocent commercial airplanes! What did America do to deserve this??? We aren’t at war (or at least we weren’t), with Afghanistan or anybody else. And even if we were, why not go after military targets?? What did those 5000+ innocent men, women, and children do to warrant this??
My guess, is that those terrorists are jealous of our freedoms. Jealous that we can say and do what we wish, without reprisal. Jealous that we can earn a decent wage. jealous that we have sanitary and prosperous living conditions. Jealous that we aren’t some small third-world toilet, living in fear like slaves from some crazed, religious zealots who hide in shadows and rattle our cages about Allah condems those who don’t follow him.
MAN, I’m angry. I love God, but he isn’t the vengeful, blood-seeking type those a$$holes make him out to be. I’m so tired of all the blood shed in His name. MY God is compassionate, loving, forgiving, and at the moment…very sad by what his sons and daughters have perpetrated in His name.
If the flight was full, it would have been harder to hijack the plane. 150 people vs. 4-5 hijackers with small knives? I’m sure they were able to check the manifest and find out how many people were going to be on those flights. Also, midweek (Tues, Wed) flights are usually not as full as those that leave on Mondays and Fridays.
The thing I was thinking about was how easily they must have gotten the information that these flights were not full. I,too, doubt that they booked it up and then canceled. I would think they had people on the inside who checked into the number of passengers, and found these flights because they were an easy number to subdue…in their minds.
As for paying cash, that’s not at all unusual for people who are Muslims. I have a friend who is married to one. She told me that they all live out of what they have in their pockets, and not with check books or credit cards. Personally, I think this is a great way to live. I just wish I could emulate it. I hate having credit card debt, and worrying about check books all the time.
They wanted to humiliate us and show us that we are not so powerful that they can bring down the symbols of our “power”. The “World Trade Center” the hub of the econmy of the world not just New Yorkers. The “White House” symbol of our leader was more important than killing the President, the “Capitol” seat of our deomcratically elected Congress. I think maybe Camp David needed to be on the list because it is where they think the Palestinians were disrespected by the peace treaties. I wonder that the Statue of Liberty was left unscathed.
From a news perspective though the most powerful image of the day was the Statue of Liberty in the foreground and Manhattan island shrouded and invisible under the smoke and fire. That’s the image they had dreamed. They were embarrassed and humiliated by their failures the first time they tried to bomb the Towers and they they were embarrassed and humiliated because of their failure at the Millennium.
This time time their dreams came true, they got everything they wished for and more. They were finally successful and had their photo opportunity.
Lives mean nothing to them, life is cheap to these sociopaths. Their attitudes are like those of Adolph Hitler, they have the right way and their god will see them rule the world. Just as Adolph Hitler decided that Jews should be exterminated because they were inferior this psychologically impaired group really believe Judaism and Christianity spawned by the other son of Abraham need to be exterminated so that Ishmael can finally have his inheritance as the eldest son of Abraham.
It is a pity, it is irrational, it is not for the worship of Allah the God Of Mohammed and the Koran but of a demon perversion of that God. This is like a cancer which as it grows malforms society.
Cactusckate-
I’m surpised for your lack of insensativity towards the airlines and their finacial problems. After all as you stated it is your husband’s transportation to and from work. If they go bankrupt-then what will your husband do? Do you not think that the loss of those jobs would not effect the economy?
My husband is an airline pilot with one of the major airlines-newly hired, so yes he could be laid off along with thousands of others. I’m not condoning the airlines running to the govt. for aid but frankly I hope they get it.
My recollection (as a CA resident with NY and DC family and friends) is that the a.m. flights tend to be smaller. As to the red-eyes. . . .
Just a thought.
I rented Bounce yesterday.
It had an interesting concept which I would love to know if it was true.
They said that if a ticket passenger does not get on the plane, they have to postpone the flight to find their luggage in remove it from the plane. IE to keep someone from checking luggage with a bomb.
Would the same be true for ticketed passengers that did not show up? I mean would they question many suddenly empty seats?
I agree that the buying up of the seats probably isn’t the most likly, but it is an interesting theory.
In this age of techno. it is probably easy to find out the number of seats on a flight.
Many times when I have booked on line they tell me which seats are available and I have to say that the ones that had many options were still that way on the flight, assuming I was late in booking.
I may not always win, but I will always try to win.
It was well planned
They knew the planes would not be at full capacity…
They knew the flights were going straight to Calif, and thus had a full tank of gas…
I don’t believe everything I read in the NY Post gossip columns (or anywhere else in Post), but here’s an interesting, if unconfirmed, story from today’s paper…
Fairly famous actor, takes regular flights from Boston to LA on the morning flight. Exactly two weeks ago, on a Tuesday, he finds himself in First-Class, alone except for four men, all apparently from the Middle East, who stare straight ahead for the major part of the flight, not eating or drinking or resting, conversing softly with each other in a foreign language… He reportedly mentioned the men’s behavior to a steward and, later, to “ground officials”… Two weeks later, a similar group of men board the same flight, and you know the rest…
That said, Bostonians… Any truth to the story that some of the highjackers visted the airport every day in a rental car every day for a week prior to the attacks?
Interestingly enough, I just heard the airline plea for a bail-out. I thought maybe better use of those funds would be to help support those employees that are going to be in-transition. Whether they find employment again flying, or some other trade.
There is alot of upper management that takes a big drain from the funding of an airline.
I think the industry has been headed for a major change for years. And this may have been just the catalyst.
I do not mean to minimize the gravity of loss of jobs, believe me. And I probably do have a different perspective than someone who may be just entering the industry. I have been trying to get my husband to make a career switch, he only has 4 years left of being able to fly in the left seat.
But why is it the government’s job to bail these people out? That was my question.
“The older I get, the better I used to be, but who the heck cares!”
I doubt anybody who is sick enough to run planes into the WTC and Pentagon, with plans for others, would care about how many people they’d kill on the plane. They did have enough money, I’m sure, to buy fake plane tickets.
However, wouldn’t the purchase of a large number of one-way tickets for passengers that didn’t show up draw attention from the airlines? They have already stated on the news that last minute morning-of ticket purchases for one-way trips often draw suspicion. According to the news, the hijackers did purchase one-way tickets the morning of the flights.
