I’ve been hesitant to post, but thought I’d share an anecdote of personal experience. I have a very tall/large WB that has mild hypermetria with no other neuro symptoms (both legs move the same way). It is just the way he moves his back end when turned in a tight circle. I believe it’s partly just the way he’s bred and partly that he’s careful not to step on himself because he’s got big feet, big shoes, and big legs.
I agree with everyone saying give it some time. I am wondering if your boy is going through a growth phase? Maybe just some time is needed to adjust to his new self? At least wait till January when your truck is fixed before deciding to do anything. More time will either help or it won’t. If it doesn’t then you’ll have either more symptoms or more pronounced symptoms that you can provide to the vets.
It’s really good that you’re video taping as you go. Keep doing it as it is one best things to be able to show the vets as evidence of what you’re seeing on that particular day. It will also help you determine if things are getting better or not and can be used as a reference. We took quite a few videos to bring with when I took my guy to the Purdue teaching hospital. They couldn’t get my horse to reproduce the movement we were seeing at home, so it was helpful in making a decision after a multitude of tests that didn’t produce any definitive results.
I would keep an eye on the uneven muscle development though - making sure it stays as is and doesn’t get worse. It could just be his preferred side or just the result of the long standing slight gait difference (or hoof shape difference for example a more upright hoof vs a lower heel hoof).
Limited time again but let me try to reply to a few things. I so appreciate all the responses!
Yes, thank heavens, they said there was no reason they could see not to turn him out. All three horses are ecstatic to be back outside! I actually turned the TB and old man out when we left for the appt so they could get their yahoos out and be calm by the time Petey came home, or at least get a little outside time if he still couldn’t go out. The TB needs turnout the most and did some truly ludicrous pronking around. The other two have been more interested in grass than running! Of course we’re getting ice tonight so I may need to bring them in again for a bit.
I am in Maryland and would LOVE to try your Surefoot pads sometime. I’ve been really interested in those in general. Thank you so much! I’ll PM you! I do have an Equiband system which I think is similar to the Pro Six?
Re: @Beowulf and the Case of the Bumpy Belly 
, I went digging around under his fluff this morning after reading your comment and yes he has a large bump on both sides of the midline there. His fluff is making it look even larger than it is. All three of my horses have that though. I remember noticing it on my TB years ago and being concerned, then realizing it was perfectly symmetrical and the old man had it too. It is firm like muscle, not soft like edema. It’s really hard to see in photos even when I know it’s there, but I think its visible in this one from December 2021:
I thought it was just an anatomical feature of horses? Do other people’s horses not have that? If so I might need to investigate something weird and environmental. Somebody please go poke some horse bellies and report back!
No, you’re right. I think that’s from the RH injury? My dressage coach, who knows him very well, said when I sent her a video about a week into the RH thing, “Definitely better but still holding himself. Keep looking for him to start swinging more through his top line.” (She meant look for that as a sign of improvement, not try to make him do it.) So you’re definitely not the only one seeing that but I suspect it’s from the injury rather than whatever else might be going on?
Super interesting and thank you for overcoming your hesitancy to post! I’d be curious to hear what tests were done if you’d like to share more.
Whoops double post–just got discharge papers if anyone is interested:
I’m curious about the 2/5 forelimb ataxia because all of our conversation was about the hind end.
ETA this:
I first read that as a “very dramatic way of going” and I was like really guys, he was a very good boy for a 4-yo coming off 3 weeks of stall rest! Gotta find things to laugh at, right?
It’s certainly is scary sounding but I still think the fact that he was so lame and you don’t know why and that that lameness is still resolving means you should maybe wait a little and then get a second opinion.
Just sounds to me like there is too many variables to be so sure that he’s neurologic just yet. Jingles for you guys!!! Horses are not for the faint of heart.
I’ll send you a PM since it’s complicated and a long story lol and don’t want to distract from your thread given your new post.
They’re hard to photograph, but my TB was kind enough to model his baffling bilateral belly bumps during dinner:
IMHO breeding for a certain type of movement is also inadvertently selecting for neurological deficits. Generics being what it is, it might not be passed on and it may not be expressed. It is to the point that I’m somewhat suspicious of any horse, dressage or hunter, that moves “too well.”
First had this conversation almost 20 years ago with a breeder of dressage horses.
But I wouldn’t be too quick to rush to judgement or schedule a myelogram in this case. There’s a lot going on elsewhere in this horse’s body.
Not sure why I went to quote @Peggy and it quoted the initial post… so editing to remove.
I agree. And if it is somewhat genetically selected neuro deficits (or perhaps even exaggerated back movement or something that isn’t actually neuro but affects the limbs similarly), there are clearly a lot of very high functioning horses with this movement out there at the moment.
Also chiming in to agree that things make horses test neuro when they aren’t.
I have a 16 YO OTTB. When he was 11 I was told by a very well respected vet that he was neuro and I should definitely not ride and possibly put him down. I was of course, devastated. A bit later, I had a different vet out (the previous vet had charged me for x-rays they took off their hands, lol. Paid it but didn’t want to deal with more hassle) anyways, that other vet looked him over, checked his stifles, and said ‘he’s got some arthritis and the muscles around his stifles are a bit underdeveloped. Let’s do some adequan and see how he does’
He was totally fine after that. Like night and day. I dread to think about what would have happened if I hadn’t of switched vets! He’s now the barn favorite at a lesson facility.
Omg! Maybe MY horses are weird for not having them then. Glad your boy was a good sport. I’ll poke mine tomorrow. 
My red horse has those lumps. I’ll be sure to tell him it’s muscle 
Are the bumps just the end of the ascending pectoral muscles? I assume they’re just more prominent on some horses.
Yep, mine too! And I did ask the vet about it when I noticed it some months ago.
Chiming in for more bilateral belly bumps crew. Mine has always had them! Pretty prominent for her as well.
I have been quietly following along. I was told testing for neuro issues was on the table for mine when in reality she had pulled a suspensory which wasn’t seen until the ultrasound. Obviously not really how your boy presents, but just wanted to add to the chorus of others who’ve gotten that news only to find something that just needed rehab instead.
I’ve decided that I’m not going to panic yet, and when my truck is fixed I will take Petey to see Dr. Johnson at New Bolton. In the meantime, I will get him some bodywork to help with the recovery from the RH, now that we know his pelvis isn’t broken. Depending on the results of the Vitamin E test, I might bump up his supplementation (I always supplement everyone with 4,000 IU/day in the winter) or switch from Ultra-Cruz pellets to something water soluble. If he does have EDM, we seem to have caught it early. The vet this week and some literature both say that Vitamin E supplementation may slow its progression. I can also be aware to keep an eye out for more signs/symptoms.
I re-listened to Dr. Johnson’s lecture on EDM from last year and if you haven’t heard it yet I highly recommend it: https://vimeo.com/642443514. It’s a video but you could just listen while driving, not miss much, and maybe jump back to a couple videos later.
Based on that, here are signs/symptoms/signalments that Petey has (all of which could also be explained by something else):
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Young warmblood imported from Europe
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Hypermetria
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Possible lack of coordination / hesitation over logs/poles (Could be a green-ness thing too? It does get better within a ride)
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Some recent touch sensitivity (coinciding with winter coat and static season)
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Touchiness/sensitivity on hind legs / snatching when picked up (was way worse when he first arrived, slightly feral and anxious, but we have worked on it a lot and now he is a very good boy for the farrier and will hold still for me to bathe his pretty socks; he did it again at the hospital though so it seems to be a stress behavior)
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Pruritis in head/neck? (Three times I’ve come home to find him with a scratch/cut near his right eye and I’ve never figured out how he’s doing it. He’s also itchy in the neck/throatlatch area, though mostly on the left side. Shortly after he came home my previous dentist tried to sedate him with xylazine, missed the vein because he’s getting older and his hands shake, and injected it all around the vein instead.
Petey got a big lump that turned into smaller bumps, hair loss, and itching that lasted for months and months. I’ve chalked the itching on the left side up to that so far but will mention it the next time he sees a vet. Regular vet saw it early on and said it will go away but take a long time. Dentist has obviously been replaced.) -
Sporadic incidences of headshaking (on November 4th I tried to ride him and it was almost impossible because he was flinging his head around so much, and as we went on it got worse so I tried a nose net with a little improvement; the next day on a trail ride with the nose net he was tossing his head a little; every ride between then and when he went lame was good though, especially on the coldest and windiest days)
Here are signs/symptoms he does not have:
- Other gait abnomalities and lack of coordination
- Abnormal stance at rest
- Declining performance
- Spooking, bucking, bolting
- Dullness
- Aggression
- Lack of flight and/or menace responses
- Muscle loss (unless we count the slight asymmetry–will keep an eye on that)
- Dull haircoat
- Balance loss
Dr. Johnson said in the lecture that horses without the behavioral symptoms of EDM can stay at that level of progression for some years and actually be quite successful during that time. So even if he does have it, which we actually would never know antemortem until/unless they come up with a better test, at this stage it wouldn’t be the death sentence I thought it would be. I can be vigilant, monitor him, and document with videos so I will always have them for comparison. Once it’s not icy out I will try to recreate the tests they did and post them here.
In the meantime here’s a short trot clip of us from earlier this year so you can see his movement pre-RH injury:
PDTV7518 clip
He’s a little less “dynamic” there than on the longe but I’m not sure I have any longeing videos from before since he was never lame and in need of a soundness check.
One thing I would mention is my horse is on 8,000 units of E split in two doses each day. I did blood test for E some years ago his level was a terrifying 95. Now it’s consistently where it should be. Also, using PP Gastric for a variety of reasons, but specifically amino acids. FWIW, he plowed through ground poles and could not step over them at all without hitting them. He was back sore and holding tightly, and once that was resolved he’s been a rockstar.
BTW - he is GORGEOUS.
I’m not on COTH as much these days, but I’m so sorry to hear about your issues with Petey. He’s lovely, and I think you’re doing all the right things: prepping for worst case while hoping for best. It’s great to know that EDM can be halted with proper treatment, and that he’s not bad off at this point at all, if that’s even what it is. Also good news that the initial RH thing seems to be resolving with time off, and it likely was a pulled muscle or strain.
I had a young mare come in from turnout one night on three legs. Took us forever to get her to the barn where she held the hind leg up with zero weight bearing. I was sure she’d broken her leg. Had the vet out for an emergency call (pulled him away from his father’s day dinner) and she had no reaction to hoof testers, palpation or stretches. Vet said to keep her in w/ bute and treat it like an abscess since it came on so severely and suddenly, and re-evaluate in a few days if no change. Miss mare was 100% sound the next morning. Came off bute, returned to turnout, and didn’t show even a shade of lameness or discomfort, and no sign of an abscess blowing. We have no idea what happened, but it did resolve amazingly quickly whatever it was. I guess this is just a round-about way of saying, you’ve got this, and there’s cause for optimism. You don’t know anything for sure right now. Petey is doing better, and even if the very mild/false neuro symptoms remain, it sounds like you can still have a long and successful riding career with this horse.
I understand your PTSD though. Seems like the 3-5yo point is where all sorts of dangers lurk. I lost one to Wobblers at 3.5, had another young one who came back from getting started with stringhalt.
I’ve had tragic breeder nightmares and miraculous recoveries. Sometimes I wonder if I can do it again. And then I do it again.
Horses are just a long stretch of heartbreak interrupted with moments of incredible happiness, hope, and love.
Try to remain optimistic and keep us posted. With yucky winter weather inbound, not like you’re missing prime riding time, and know that we all have virtual hugs heading your way. We’ve all experienced the heartbreak and the joy that is horses.
I think some of the really nice movers are a bit neurologic - it’s part of what creates some of that wow movement.
I went through an EDM diagnosis with a 4yo about 2 yrs ago…we had lameness issues (stifle and a shifting front leg subtle lameness) for about 6 mo. Then the behavioral stuff started to get bad fast. When my farrier said he would not get under him again (this was a horse who had always been perfect for the farrier since he was a yearling), I knew it was not in my head or a training issue. He was a good mover (1st premium foal) who became a wow/jaw dropping mover a few months before the EDM diagnosis. But, the behavioral stuff was so unusual and different that we new it was serious.
Fast forward to this year…have different 4 yo who starts with some behavioral stuff out of the blue. Take him up for a work up (I’ve always suspected he was a tiny bit neuro)…and they jump all over that. Want to do a myelogram, neck injections, etc. Bring up EDM. I went with my gut and told them the coordination stuff was not new (he was always a bit loose/clumsy/distracted when walking)…this really seemed to be pain. I am glad I said no to the myleogram…as I pushed for different testing instead. Turns out he had two broken ribs!!
I think some specialists will see that diagnosis because they are trained to focus on that. Much of the time they are right…but sometimes you also have to step back and look at the big picture. And sometimes you have to trust your gut since you know your horse best. When my guy had EDM…deep down I knew that was the diagnosis once I learned about it…but with my current guy, I just felt it didn’t add up. Broken ribs, however, did make sense (and also impacted some of his tight turn and other neuro tests).
Finally had time and some decent weather to recreate at least some of the neuro tests for video. Didn’t do the head-raise downhill since they said that was normal and I wasn’t sure my phone was capturing anything at all.
Tight turns:
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Stepping over high poles:
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Stepping over low poles:
IMG_5405
Downhill walk:
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We have an appt with Dr Johnson at NBC in a couple of weeks. I just hope my damn truck is fixed by then.
Meanwhile he is miraculously sound. 
